Glad to get away with a win yesterday, congrats to the Rockets and fans. 5-3 doesn't feel so bad. If we had beat Ball St, everyone would be fairly close to cloud 9 right now.

The defense: we are tackling and containing better than the past few years. We are getting good pressure on QBs and getting sacks. We are causing turnovers week after week. BUT, the one thing we can't seem to figure out is 3rd and long defense. If we fared better with this yesterday, the BG comeback would not have occurred as it did. 3rd and long should be squarely in the defense's favor, but the Rockets can't seem to get it sorted. I don't claim to have the answers, but I don't like the fact that we don't seem to change the look of the defense enough in these situations. We need to disguise our rush better to keep the offense guessing. If we can shore this up, we would have one of the best if not the best MAC defense. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
Grade: B

The offense: while our QB is struggling at times, we have the O-Line, backs and running game to keep pace with almost any FBS school. If we could just get some consistency out of our QB and receivers, this would put our offense near the top of the MAC. Not much more to say here...we all see the problems. We also seem to abandon the run at times when the other team can't stop it.
Grade: B

Kicking: nothing to say. Great job. Detmer rocks.
Grade A

These are the differences between us, NIU, and Ball State right now. On paper, we have the better personnel on average. On game day, they consistently (the key) have the better poise and execution. Let's hope we can get better in these areas and ready for our remaining battles. We can't overlook any team. EMU still has Bronson Hill . I also expect Buffalo to be a very stout test, perhaps as much as we know NIU will be. Akron also has the passing offense to give us fits in that last away game, just like they did in the big house.

Here's to finishing strong and learning from our mistakes.
Go Rockets!

Aren't Lynch and Wenning really the difference between us and those other West division teams?

I believe the difference is UT is playing a bunch of freshman and sophomores who are still learning. They continue to improve every week.

(10-27-2013 10:26 AM)owen Wrote:  Aren't Lynch and Wenning really the difference between us and those other West division teams?

Not sure it is that simple, but I do understand what you are implying. I believe these two players play an important role for teams that, of late, seem to have the poise and execution we seem to lack in order to come out on top. But, as they say...one player does not a great team make. These teams also have many other good players and good coaching.

From my perspective, our team has not reached near their potential in some critical areas. This is the side of the equation they CAN control. If our red zone offense (mainly passing) and 3rd down defense improved, we could beat these teams by 7 points instead of lose to them by 7 points. It comes done to coaching, play calling and execution in these areas. If we can improve from a C to a B in these particular areas, that would be the difference IMHO. Again, this is intended to be positive criticism. The Rockets are a good team, but there is still quite a bit of room to improve in some areas.

(10-27-2013 01:34 PM)rockytop Wrote:  I believe the difference is UT is playing a bunch of freshman and sophomores who are still learning. They continue to improve every week.

Agree on that, our future looks good. Some of these kids have so much talent already and will only continue to improve.

(10-27-2013 01:48 PM)ToledoMike Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 10:26 AM)owen Wrote:  Aren't Lynch and Wenning really the difference between us and those other West division teams?

Not sure it is that simple, but I do understand what you are implying. I believe these two players play an important role for teams that, of late, seem to have the poise and execution we seem to lack in order to come out on top. But, as they say...one player does not a great team make. These teams also have many other good players and good coaching.

From my perspective, our team has not reached near their potential in some critical areas. This is the side of the equation they CAN control. If our red zone offense (mainly passing) and 3rd down defense improved, we could beat these teams by 7 points instead of lose to them by 7 points. It comes done to coaching, play calling and execution in these areas. If we can improve from a C to a B in these particular areas, that would be the difference IMHO. Again, this is intended to be positive criticism. The Rockets are a good team, but there is still quite a bit of room to improve in some areas.

I don't dispute it takes more than a great QB to be a great team.
Just seems like in the MAC, great QB has been the ultimate equalizer.

Difference between Toledo and NIU and BSU is coaching. Our head coach has a brain fart too often in critical situations IMO


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(10-27-2013 01:48 PM)ToledoMike Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 10:26 AM)owen Wrote:  Aren't Lynch and Wenning really the difference between us and those other West division teams?

Not sure it is that simple, but I do understand what you are implying. I believe these two players play an important role for teams that, of late, seem to have the poise and execution we seem to lack in order to come out on top. But, as they say...one player does not a great team make. These teams also have many other good players and good coaching.

From my perspective, our team has not reached near their potential in some critical areas. This is the side of the equation they CAN control. If our red zone offense (mainly passing) and 3rd down defense improved, we could beat these teams by 7 points instead of lose to them by 7 points. It comes done to coaching, play calling and execution in these areas. If we can



improve from a C to a B in these particular areas, that would be the difference IMHO. Again, this is intended to be positive criticism. The Rockets are a good team, but there is still quite a bit of room to improve in some areas.

Interestingly, we lead the MAC in red zone scoring percentage. That is in no small part due to the oft praised Mr. Detmer but we are better than last year in terms of TDs, I believe. Yesterday helped.

(10-27-2013 10:26 AM)owen Wrote:  Aren't Lynch and Wenning really the difference between us and those other West division teams?

Leadership is the difference and those two have proven to be individuals that can take control and inspire others.

Toledo losing on the road to three very good teams is the difference. T.O played poor in two games, Mizzou and BSU. We have by far the toughest crossover and SOS in the west. We are beat up. Toledo is the scariest test any BCS school wants to see come bowl season.

(10-27-2013 05:17 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Toledo losing on the road to three very good teams is the difference. T.O played poor in two games, Mizzou and BSU. We have by far the toughest crossover and SOS in the west. We are beat up. Toledo is the scariest test any BCS school wants to see come bowl season.

Absolutely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good points. We definitely have had the toughest schedule in the MAC, so yes, we are beat up and that hasn't helped. Having a great QB (as opposed to a good QB) in the MAC has typically been the recipe for success, but I also believe a smash mouth team that can run the ball and play tough defense can win at any level. We certainly have the O-line to run and pass the ball, even against most BCS schools. The importance of leadership that Lynch and Wenning bring their teams is one of their teams keys to success for sure. When you have a good player to mold, these roles and skills need to be fostered by the coaching staff. I questioned this effort with the two QB system, but we still seem to be lacking a bit in this area. I am not going to blame anything solely on coaching either since the players need to make the throws, catches, tackles, and blocks once they walk onto the field.

I think as a whole we have done a good job in many areas. As a fan, I just hope to see improvement in these few key areas that I mentioned in the OP. When watching the games, these are definitely the pain points I see that cause us to stutter, even against lesser competition at times. We don't need a complete overhaul, we just need some fine tuning. Watch the third and long bonanza that BG had with us, and try to figure out how to do better.

UofToledoFans, please change your sig to say "4 in a row"

(10-27-2013 10:26 AM)owen Wrote:  Aren't Lynch and Wenning really the difference between us and those other West division teams?

Isn't that the truth.. Cant' remember he last MAC champ that didn't have the best undisputed QB int he league.

(10-28-2013 03:23 PM)DSV27 Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 10:26 AM)owen Wrote:  Aren't Lynch and Wenning really the difference between us and those other West division teams?

Isn't that the truth.. Cant' remember he last MAC champ that didn't have the best undisputed QB int he league.

Seemed right to me as well, so I took it on myself to check this out a bit. When you look back over the list, we have had some crazy good QB's in this conference. Undisputed best QB's for a given year with a MACC are likely Leftwich, Pennington, Roethlisberger, LeFevour, Harnish, and Lynch. Dysert had the better throwing stats last year, but Lynch is obviously the better overall QB with his ability to run. Beyond just a QB, these teams were were arguably stacked at other positions as well and many were ranked at the end of their year.

However, the undisputed best QB didn't always win the MACC in all cases. Winning is obviously reason to dispute, but if you go by the stats and general consensus, it wasn't always the case.

Miami in 2010 was likely the best example. They won mostly that year with good defense. Austin Boucher replaced Dysert halfway through the year and they won mostly by stopping other teams. Ryan Radcliff, Chandler Harnish, or Alex Carder were the best QB's that year.

Buffalo won in 2008 with Drew Willy, but it was against Nate Davis and #12 Ball State. Nate Davis was considered the 2nd coming that year. *Folks from Buffalo may dispute this because Willy was one hell of a QB...I don't argue either, but went with the stats and the hype I recall from that year.

Akron in 2005, had a good QB (Luke Getsy) with the best stats in the MAC, but only ended up at 7-6 after a bowl loss. I am not sure folks considered him the best, but he proved us otherwise. They beat a young Chandler Harnish in the MACC. Josh Betts from Miami, Kent Smith from CMU, and Gradkowski were likely better QB's overall that year IMHO. I am still asking myself how Akron won the MACC that year. This should have been another Toledo win with Gradkowski, but we had 5 TO's against NIU and they went to the MACC instead of us

2004 Toledo won with Bruce, but Omar Jacobs from BG had more yards, TDs, and less INTs (I still think Grad was better LOL)

Who will be next?

LYNCH is elite for a MAC QB in the history of this conference. His single season records are astonishing.

WENNING has started for 3 or 4 seasons now, and has become a very very good passer. Not elite all time but very good. Certainly good enough to win the MACC.

TETTLETON is also a very very good passer, and probably the best OU QB ever. Not in the same category as LYNCH tho, in regards to Elite. Micky's son would probably have to do the most to get his team to the MACC because the lack of weapons and D that OU has shown thus far.

JOHNSON is a younger guy who very well may be elite by the time he is done, but will be similar to a sophomore HARNISH if he gets to the MACC this season.

OWENS has pretty good career stats, but so far has not been the player Rockets fans thought he would be in 2010. He is in the top half of the league for sure, and if Toledo won the MAC, Toledo is not in the same convo as those other teams with subpar QB's you mentioned. OWENS would be 7-1, 7-1, 6-2, and 8-1 career in conference.

LICATA took ZORDICHES job at UB and so far has 14 TD's to 4 INT's. Only being a sophomore would not be a great QB to win the MACC. Like JOHNSON from BG, his pastures may be greener in years to come and he could develop into one of the MAC greats....

All in all, time will tell...

(10-28-2013 08:26 PM)ToledoMike Wrote:  

(10-28-2013 03:23 PM)DSV27 Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 10:26 AM)owen Wrote:  Aren't Lynch and Wenning really the difference between us and those other West division teams?

Isn't that the truth.. Cant' remember he last MAC champ that didn't have the best undisputed QB int he league.

Seemed right to me as well, so I took it on myself to check this out a bit. When you look back over the list, we have had some crazy good QB's in this conference. Undisputed best QB's for a given year with a MACC are likely Leftwich, Pennington, Roethlisberger, LeFevour, Harnish, and Lynch. Dysert had the better throwing stats last year, but Lynch is obviously the better overall QB with his ability to run. Beyond just a QB, these teams were were arguably stacked at other positions as well and many were ranked at the end of their year.

However, the undisputed best QB didn't always win the MACC in all cases. Winning is obviously reason to dispute, but if you go by the stats and general consensus, it wasn't always the case.

Miami in 2010 was likely the best example. They won mostly that year with good defense. Austin Boucher replaced Dysert halfway through the year and they won mostly by stopping other teams. Ryan Radcliff, Chandler Harnish, or Alex Carder were the best QB's that year.

Buffalo won in 2008 with Drew Willy, but it was against Nate Davis and #12 Ball State. Nate Davis was considered the 2nd coming that year. *Folks from Buffalo may dispute this because Willy was one hell of a QB...I don't argue either, but went with the stats and the hype I recall from that year.

Akron in 2005, had a good QB (Luke Getsy) with the best stats in the MAC, but only ended up at 7-6 after a bowl loss. I am not sure folks considered him the best, but he proved us otherwise. They beat a young Chandler Harnish in the MACC. Josh Betts from Miami, Kent Smith from CMU, and Gradkowski were likely better QB's overall that year IMHO. I am still asking myself how Akron won the MACC that year. This should have been another Toledo win with Gradkowski, but we had 5 TO's against NIU and they went to the MACC instead of us

2004 Toledo won with Bruce, but Omar Jacobs from BG had more yards, TDs, and less INTs (I still think Grad was better LOL)

Who will be next?

Harnish was in HS in 2005, the NIU QB's that year were Horvath and Nicholson. NIU would have been a 500 team without Wolfe that year.

(10-29-2013 12:25 PM)BobL Wrote:  

(10-28-2013 08:26 PM)ToledoMike Wrote:  

(10-28-2013 03:23 PM)DSV27 Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 10:26 AM)owen Wrote:  Aren't Lynch and Wenning really the difference between us and those other West division teams?

Isn't that the truth.. Cant' remember he last MAC champ that didn't have the best undisputed QB int he league.

Seemed right to me as well, so I took it on myself to check this out a bit. When you look back over the list, we have had some crazy good QB's in this conference. Undisputed best QB's for a given year with a MACC are likely Leftwich, Pennington, Roethlisberger, LeFevour, Harnish, and Lynch. Dysert had the better throwing stats last year, but Lynch is obviously the better overall QB with his ability to run. Beyond just a QB, these teams were were arguably stacked at other positions as well and many were ranked at the end of their year.

However, the undisputed best QB didn't always win the MACC in all cases. Winning is obviously reason to dispute, but if you go by the stats and general consensus, it wasn't always the case.

Miami in 2010 was likely the best example. They won mostly that year with good defense. Austin Boucher replaced Dysert halfway through the year and they won mostly by stopping other teams. Ryan Radcliff, Chandler Harnish, or Alex Carder were the best QB's that year.

Buffalo won in 2008 with Drew Willy, but it was against Nate Davis and #12 Ball State. Nate Davis was considered the 2nd coming that year. *Folks from Buffalo may dispute this because Willy was one hell of a QB...I don't argue either, but went with the stats and the hype I recall from that year.

Akron in 2005, had a good QB (Luke Getsy) with the best stats in the MAC, but only ended up at 7-6 after a bowl loss. I am not sure folks considered him the best, but he proved us otherwise. They beat a young Chandler Harnish in the MACC. Josh Betts from Miami, Kent Smith from CMU, and Gradkowski were likely better QB's overall that year IMHO. I am still asking myself how Akron won the MACC that year. This should have been another Toledo win with Gradkowski, but we had 5 TO's against NIU and they went to the MACC instead of us

2004 Toledo won with Bruce, but Omar Jacobs from BG had more yards, TDs, and less INTs (I still think Grad was better LOL)

Who will be next?

Harnish was in HS in 2005, the NIU QB's that year were Horvath and Nicholson. NIU would have been a 500 team without Wolfe that year.

And in 2003 NIU would have been .500 without Michael turner and p.j fleck.... Okay minus p.j. Fleck NIU has built their legacy on running the ball. Harnish and Lynch played a different position but still carved up D's.

I like our quarterback.

Charlie Frye was a heck of a QB at Akron.
Did he ever win anything there?

T. Owens is alright. I think we could win the rest of our games with him. A lot of things need to go right. Hope Fluellen gets healthy.

I agree we can ride Owens the rest of the season and He's our best candidate to help us win out. Next year will be interesting. Woodside was ok as a temporary filler, but I wasn't totally sold, but glad he got some game experience. It will be interesting with him the kid from Alabama and our redshirts.