(11-04-2013 12:16 PM)The Optimist Wrote:  where no one can question that Ohio is the MAC flagship: men's basketball.

I question that.

I thought Kent State was in the recent past......if you go with historical "flagship", which MAC program has the most MAC hoops titles? Is it really OU??

(11-04-2013 12:55 PM)exCincy Kid Wrote:  I thought Kent State was in the recent past......if you go with historical "flagship", which MAC program has the most MAC hoops titles? Is it really OU??

Kent's last title was 2008. The last team to win an NCAA tournament game other than Ohio was Central in 2003.

So, I guess it is all how you define who you want to carry the flag and line up behind. Do you define it by NCAA success? Attendance? Recognition? Regular season success?

You could pick Akron, they have won three out of the last five titles. Which is an amazing run in this conference.

Then they lost in the first round of the NCAAs:

77-64 to Gonzaga
69-56 to Notre Dame
88-42 to VCU

Interesting (to me) sidenote: No one in the West has won the MAC Tournament since Western in 2004. Since then it has been Miami (1), Kent (2), Ohio (3) and Akron (3)

And most years it's been two East teams in the Finals. The last time a team from the West even made the final game it was Toledo in 2006..

Since then 2007-2013

Akron (7) <--- Every damn year
Kent (2)
Ohio (3)
Buffalo (1)
Miami (1)

Looks like lots of folks question your statement, Optimist. I say Akron in revent years, Miami historically.

It has been zero posts since anyone mentioned Ohio. FOCUS, PEOPLE!

The premise that there even is a "flagship" basketball program in the MAC is the error. All teams are flawed in that regard.

Miami hasn't really done much since the 90's. Akron can't win an NCAA game. Ohio can't win the MAC regular season. KSU has slowly regressed since the Elite Eight run despite a couple of NCAA appearances since. There is nobody thinking any of these programs are dominant mid-majors because none are. Any of them would have to do a lot more over a several seasons to become the face of MAC basketball.

Axeme said a lot of what I was going to post here, but the fact is there is no flagship program in the MAC in football or hoops.

As one former SID once said to me when we were discussing the Vegas lines of MAC football games, it's crazy to bet on MAC games because the teams are so "squirrely," meaning the teams were, for the most part, so evenly matched throughout the MAC that anything can, and usually, does happen.

Same goes for hoops.

Really, that's what makes the MAC so damned enjoyable to a large degree. So, just enjoy the ride the MAC offers and stop worrying about flagships and such.

(11-04-2013 03:29 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  It has been zero posts since anyone mentioned Ohio. FOCUS, PEOPLE!

We don't need to. You covered it.

I would say NIU is sakting on the edge of being our flagship football program..

7 Bowls since 2004 (will be 8 this year)
2 Conference Championships
3 Division Championships

And they did this with three coaching changes and two star quarterback changes.

(11-04-2013 05:52 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  I would say NIU is sakting on the edge of being our flagship football program..

7 Bowls since 2004 (will be 8 this year)
2 Conference Championships
3 Division Championships

And they did this with three coaching changes and two star quarterback changes.

Boise State of the Midwest.

(11-04-2013 03:57 PM)axeme Wrote:  The premise that there even is a "flagship" basketball program in the MAC is the error. All teams are flawed in that regard.

Miami hasn't really done much since the 90's. Akron can't win an NCAA game. Ohio can't win the MAC regular season. KSU has slowly regressed since the Elite Eight run despite a couple of NCAA appearances since. There is nobody thinking any of these programs are dominant mid-majors because none are. Any of them would have to do a lot more over a several seasons to become the face of MAC basketball.

Ohio won the MAC regular season Men's basketball title in 2012-13.

Winning has been a problem during the regular season in the past but Jim Christian (all time MAC winning percentage leader) was brought in to fix that.

(11-04-2013 04:44 PM)HuronDave Wrote:  Axeme said a lot of what I was going to post here, but the fact is there is no flagship program in the MAC in football or hoops.

As one former SID once said to me when we were discussing the Vegas lines of MAC football games, it's crazy to bet on MAC games because the teams are so "squirrely," meaning the teams were, for the most part, so evenly matched throughout the MAC that anything can, and usually, does happen.

That was how MAC football was in the past but now its become regularly strong at the top.

(11-04-2013 11:37 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  Over the hump to what? A lateral move to the AAC?

Its a lateral move in football.

(11-04-2013 06:07 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(11-04-2013 05:52 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  I would say NIU is sakting on the edge of being our flagship football program..

7 Bowls since 2004 (will be 8 this year)
2 Conference Championships
3 Division Championships

And they did this with three coaching changes and two star quarterback changes.

Boise State of the Midwest.

I thought that was Ohio.

(11-04-2013 05:52 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  I would say NIU is sakting on the edge of being our flagship football program..

7 Bowls since 2004 (will be 8 this year)
2 Conference Championships (will be 3 this year)
3 Division Championships (will be 4 this year)

And they did this with three four coaching changes and two three star quarterback changes.

Crystal ball says FTFY

What, too soon?

(11-04-2013 06:07 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(11-04-2013 05:52 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  I would say NIU is sakting on the edge of being our flagship football program..

7 Bowls since 2004 (will be 8 this year)
2 Conference Championships
3 Division Championships

And they did this with three coaching changes and two star quarterback changes.

Boise State of the Midwest.

Nobody is Boise till they start winning those BCS games but it's fair to say they are as close to a flagship football program as the MAC has right now.

(11-04-2013 03:27 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  Looks like lots of folks question your statement, Optimist. I say Akron in revent years, Miami historically.

My statement relied on people having a base level of intelligence along with a certain level of honesty and truthfulness with themselves, which was clearly asking too much.
FWIW, Ohio men's basketball has all-time winning records against both Miami and Akron.

I do like Axeme and HuronDave conceding defeat by declining to admit that any school is a leader. Everyone gets a trophy! Yeah, MAC hoops has really been competitive with all those schools in the West being so successful!!!
The MAC East is the flagship division. Akron is our flagship? The school that Ohio has more NCAA tournament wins the last 5 years than they have apperences all-time? Yes, the JAR is clearly superior to the Convo... Clearly a supeiror fanbase and atmosphere. Those Zips fans really travel better to road games than Ohio fans. The school spending 1 million less than Ohio basketball annually?
Right.
Also, Ohio is co-defending regular season champ. So the whole "Ohio can't win the regular season" isn't true. Need a new excuse if you want to keep lying to yourself.

(11-05-2013 08:24 AM)The Optimist Wrote:  

(11-04-2013 03:27 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  Looks like lots of folks question your statement, Optimist. I say Akron in revent years, Miami historically.

My statement relied on people having a base level of intelligence along with a certain level of honesty and truthfulness with themselves, which was clearly asking too much.
FWIW, Ohio men's basketball has all-time winning records against both Miami and Akron.

I do like Axeme and HuronDave conceding defeat by declining to admit that any school is a leader. Everyone gets a trophy! Yeah, MAC hoops has really been competitive with all those schools in the West being so successful!!!
The MAC East is the flagship division. Akron is our flagship? The school that Ohio has more NCAA tournament wins the last 5 years than they have apperences all-time? Yes, the JAR is clearly superior to the Convo... Clearly a supeiror fanbase and atmosphere. Those Zips fans really travel better to road games than Ohio fans. The school spending 1 million less than Ohio basketball annually?
Right.
Also, Ohio is co-defending regular season champ. So the whole "Ohio can't win the regular season" isn't true. Need a new excuse if you want to keep lying to yourself.

Agree with your first sentence. When the poster falls short in those areas his statements are certain to fall short as well.

I don't want to give everyone a trophy. A little reading comprehension, please. I said the exact opposite. The MAC has woefully regressed to very minimal relevance in even mid-major circles, let alone in D-I overall.

I don't get the need for declare oneself "a flagship" anything. It's a delusional fabrication. Get a ranked team. Be at-large worthy. Consistently beat good D-I teams on the road. Win an early season tourney or two or three. At least be the #1 seed in the conference tourney and then win it and get a top half seed. Look like a top mid-major team at the every least. No MAC team has done that in a good while. Then you don't have to make up titles to give yourself to puff up your team over others. You won't have to.