(10-20-2013 12:34 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  It's too early to say whether Missouri would beat out Ohio State but it is certainly a very real possibility.

What I don't get is how folks say SEC parity equals strength but Big Ten increased parity equals crap.

I have watched plenty of Big Ten games this year and it has been a great year for the conference in my opinion. Some people just continuously repeat the same ole same ole "The Big Ten is crap" line over and over despite the very obvious fact that they don't ever watch any Big Ten games.

It is called ignorance.

When the Big 10 consistently wins its bowls and strong OOC games they won't say that about your conference. But parity in a conference that doesn't perform well in big games against outside competition isn't going to gain them any credentials. But that stuff does go in cycles. Right now you are in a down cycle. But if you are going to schedule OOC games you need more against the upper division teams of the other P5 conferences instead of a bunch of MAC teams, MWC teams, and a few bottom tier PAC teams.

(10-20-2013 12:41 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-20-2013 12:34 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  It's too early to say whether Missouri would beat out Ohio State but it is certainly a very real possibility.

What I don't get is how folks say SEC parity equals strength but Big Ten increased parity equals crap.

I have watched plenty of Big Ten games this year and it has been a great year for the conference in my opinion. Some people just continuously repeat the same ole same ole "The Big Ten is crap" line over and over despite the very obvious fact that they don't ever watch any Big Ten games.

It is called ignorance.

When the Big 10 consistently wins its bowls and strong OOC games they won't say that about your conference. But parity in a conference that doesn't perform well in big games against outside competition isn't going to gain them any credentials. But that stuff does go in cycles. Right now you are in a down cycle. But if you are going to schedule OOC games you need more against the upper division teams of the other P5 conferences instead of a bunch of MAC teams, MWC teams, and a few bottom tier PAC teams.

Of course and I realize that but I base my opinions off of actually watching teams perform and analyzing their performances. You speak sensible with this post but some others are just following the herd and repeating the same old BS in a most ignorant fashion.

The Big Ten has a lot to prove in the coming years, no doubt. One cannot deny though that this year many of their teams that have been perennial poor performers, they are showing signs of life. Indiana? Illinois? Northwestern?

Iowa and Michigan State have been pretty ugly for the past two years yet both of them seem to have found a rhythm this year.

Wisky is still stomping around despite folks saying they would drop off.

Penn State is performing despite the odds.

Michigan? I don't know what to say about them. They have an idiot savant as a quarterback and an overhyped coach. You never know what you will get with them.

Even Minny is showing signs of improvement.

The Big Ten may still be in a down cycle but they are on the upside of it. Anyone that regularly watches the Big Ten knows that.


As to the Big Ten consistently winning it's Bowls? No one plays more big bowl games against the SEC than the Big Ten does. It is entirely simplistic in nature to just look at the bowl record and not look at the competition.

I think a game that really did the Big Ten a lot of damage quite frankly was the Nebraska/UCLA game.

I think also something hurting Ohio St is their OOC schedule. Buffalo 5-2, San Diego St 3-3, Cal 1-6, and FCS Florida A&M at 2-5. 11-16 total.
Missouri not a great OOC schedule but better. FCS Murray St 5-3, Toledo 4-3, Indiana 3-4, and Arkansas St 3-3. 15-13 total.

then you look at who teams avoid. Missouri does avoid Auburn, LSU, and Alabama, but sees A&M and Mississippi from the west. They also avoid Miss St and Arkansas, the 2 worst teams out west.
Ohio St avoids Michigan St, Nebraska, and Minnesota in the Legends division. Those 3 teams are a total of 16-4. The 3 teams they do play are 14-7.

It's kind of a perfect storm quite frankly.

rest of the way- Ohio St's opponents are 17-16(not including CCG)
Missouri's opponents are 19-15(not including CCG)
that's a difference.

I just don't see Ohio St able to close the computer gap that they're going to face. Right now, it's 3.33 for Missouri to 8 for Ohio St. That gap won't be that large, but should remain a good 2-3 spots I think.

(10-20-2013 12:49 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I think a game that really did the Big Ten a lot of damage quite frankly was the Nebraska/UCLA game.

I think also something hurting Ohio St is their OOC schedule. Buffalo 5-2, San Diego St 3-3, Cal 1-6, and FCS Florida A&M at 2-5. 11-16 total.
Missouri not a great OOC schedule but better. FCS Murray St 5-3, Toledo 4-3, Indiana 3-4, and Arkansas St 3-3. 15-13 total.

then you look at who teams avoid. Missouri does avoid Auburn, LSU, and Alabama, but sees A&M and Mississippi from the west. They also avoid Miss St and Arkansas, the 2 worst teams out west.
Ohio St avoids Michigan St, Nebraska, and Minnesota in the Legends division. Those 3 teams are a total of 16-4. The 3 teams they do play are 14-7.

It's kind of a perfect storm quite frankly.

rest of the way- Ohio St's opponents are 17-16(not including CCG)
Missouri's opponents are 19-15(not including CCG)
that's a difference.

I just don't see Ohio St able to close the computer gap that they're going to face. Right now, it's 3.33 for Missouri to 8 for Ohio St. That gap won't be that large, but should remain a good 2-3 spots I think.

Computer rankings are what...a third of the total equation? Those are all nice stats but they don't mean everything.

they don't mean everything, but if say Missouri is a unanimous 2, and Ohio St is 4. Ohio St would have to be a unanimous 1 poll spot ahead of Missouri in both Harris and Coaches. They'd have to be up by like 104 votes in Harris and 62 in coaches. I don't see that happening in this scenario at all- I'd expect Ohio St to be up- but by like 20-25 votes tops.

(10-20-2013 12:58 AM)stever20 Wrote:  they don't mean everything, but if say Missouri is a unanimous 2, and Ohio St is 4. Ohio St would have to be a unanimous 1 poll spot ahead of Missouri in both Harris and Coaches. They'd have to be up by like 104 votes in Harris and 62 in coaches. I don't see that happening in this scenario at all- I'd expect Ohio St to be up- but by like 20-25 votes tops.

They were both undefeated going into this week. Ohio State ranked fourth and Missouri fourteenth. That should say enough.

According to what folks are saying, Missouri should already be ranked higher than them but they aren't. Personally, I don't think the voters are going to vote Missouri ahead of Ohio State.

in the BCS this past week(all data available except for 1 computer)- Ohio St was 5 and Missouri was 10. However, teams ranked 6,7,8,9 all lost this week.

If the scenario happens, I definitely think enough voters would put Missouri ahead of Ohio St to get Missouri in the title game. Not a doubt in my mind. Ohio St may be ahead of Missouri in the polls, but Missouri will have the computers.

you have to think just in the coaches poll this week Missour was 14...
teams ranked 4(Clemson), 6(Louisville), 7(Texas A&M), 8(LSU),9 South Carolina, 10 UCLA all lost. I'd expect Missouri to pass all of those teams. That gets them up by 6 spots up to #8 worst case. And that's if they don't pass Miami, Baylor, or Stanford.

Also, Ohio St could easily get passed by FSU this week.

"No" to the original question, which is part of why we need a playoff.

(10-20-2013 08:40 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  "No" to the original question, which is part of why we need a playoff.

The huge poll turnover is why we don't need polls period and if we are going to have them then they don't need to start until half the season has been played. Hypothetically let's assume that Baylor or Missouri go undefeated. There are too many teams to jump for them to get a fair shake at this point because preseason hype placed too many ahead of them. Sure there will be lots of losses yet to come. But let's assume that Ohio State continues to eek out wins over lowly teams and that Oregon barely scrapes by Stanford in an extremely low scoring game which proves that most of the PAC simply doesn't have a defense (a malady more common in all conferences these days) and that after PAC play the rest of their teams all have two or more losses. The strength of schedule will not be enough to overcome the beauty contest, power conference politics, sports writer's biases, and the networks worried about ratings. That's why this mess has to come to an end. It is not remotely fair, never has been, and never will be.

(10-20-2013 01:14 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Ohio St could easily get passed by FSU this week.

FSU beat the #3 team in the nation. They should move up to #3 to replace Clemson, with Ohio State remaining #4, if there's any validity to the process...

Of course we know there is no validity to the process, which is why it's being scrapped after this year...

(10-20-2013 09:00 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-20-2013 08:40 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  "No" to the original question, which is part of why we need a playoff.

The huge poll turnover is why we don't need polls period and if we are going to have them then they don't need to start until half the season has been played. Hypothetically let's assume that Baylor or Missouri go undefeated. There are too many teams to jump for them to get a fair shake at this point because preseason hype placed too many ahead of them. Sure there will be lots of losses yet to come. But let's assume that Ohio State continues to eek out wins over lowly teams and that Oregon barely scrapes by Stanford in an extremely low scoring game which proves that most of the PAC simply doesn't have a defense (a malady more common in all conferences these days) and that after PAC play the rest of their teams all have two or more losses. The strength of schedule will not be enough to overcome the beauty contest, power conference politics, sports writer's biases, and the networks worried about ratings. That's why this mess has to come to an end. It is not remotely fair, never has been, and never will be.

See, here you go with your propaganda against the Big Ten. Eek out wins against lowly teams?

Iowa was 4-2 and hadn't allowed a single rushing touchdown on the season before Ohio State finally broke that string yesterday.

I am not saying folks need to look at Ohio State as equal to the likes of this Florida State team or this Alabama team or this Oregon team but come on, from what I have seen of this Missouri team they are comparable. Missouri's win against Georgia was not against a team at full strength.

Ohio State is not "eeking" out wins. If you are going to attempt to try and judge fairness then be fair yourself.

You are absolutely correct about preseason polls setting the stage before the lights even come on. Yes, it is real, that is how the game is controlled. It still has to be done on the field but the stage is set before the show ever begins and it is done that way for ratings.

I saw on CBS sports site the projection by Jerry Palm...

He's got FSU #2 today...

And Ohio St is 4 and Missouri is 5. By a .03 gap, which isn't huge at all. And, that's w/o Missouri getting more help in the polls.

(10-20-2013 09:35 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I saw on CBS sports site the projection by Jerry Palm...

He's got FSU #2 today...

And Ohio St is 4 and Missouri is 5. By a .03 gap, which isn't huge at all. And, that's w/o Missouri getting more help in the polls.

I am not quite able to project FSU past Oregon BUT I do think they are the better team and as things stand now if I was to pick one team that I think has the best chance to pull off the win against Alabama in the NCG, that team would be FSU not Oregon.


Missouri has South Carolina at home next week, Tennessee at home the week after. If they make it through that home stretch then they get a breezer at Kentucky. They get a bye week after that in order to prepare for their away game at Ole Miss. If Missouri is still in the hunt at this point then they better not look past that Ole Miss team. Then they end the season at home against the Aggies.

Ohio State has Penn State coming to town next week and Penn State has shown they are no slouch of a team. They will give tOSU a challenge but my Hawkeyes properly prepared the Bucks for a strong finish to the season. After that they travel to Purdue, have a bye week and then travel to Illinois. Hopefully that stretch does not undo what Iowa and Penn State will have done for Ohio State. When Indiana comes to town the next week, Ohio State's defense will be put to the test as will the offense as Miller will have to be very efficient at getting scoring drives. The final game of the year for Ohio State is against Michigan at The Big House. If Ohio State rumbles through that schedule then it should be enough.


For me, it is very likely that Missouri stumbles somewhere along the way. South Carolina could possibly do it. Tennessee absolutely should not be looked past. They are now playing better than their record shows. That game at Ole Miss is going to be tough. The game against the Aggies will be a shoot out. IF Missouri makes it through that gauntlet then it would not surprise me if they end up ranked above Ohio State but the SEC Championship game will solve the two SEC team problem.

(10-20-2013 10:04 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(10-20-2013 09:35 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I saw on CBS sports site the projection by Jerry Palm...

He's got FSU #2 today...

And Ohio St is 4 and Missouri is 5. By a .03 gap, which isn't huge at all. And, that's w/o Missouri getting more help in the polls.

I am not quite able to project FSU past Oregon BUT I do think they are the better team and as things stand now if I was to pick one team that I think has the best chance to pull off the win against Alabama in the NCG, that team would be FSU not Oregon.


Missouri has South Carolina at home next week, Tennessee at home the week after. If they make it through that home stretch then they get a breezer at Kentucky. They get a bye week after that in order to prepare for their away game at Ole Miss. If Missouri is still in the hunt at this point then they better not look past that Ole Miss team. Then they end the season at home against the Aggies.

Ohio State has Penn State coming to town next week and Penn State has shown they are no slouch of a team. They will give tOSU a challenge but my Hawkeyes properly prepared the Bucks for a strong finish to the season. After that they travel to Purdue, have a bye week and then travel to Illinois. Hopefully that stretch does not undo what Iowa and Penn State will have done for Ohio State. When Indiana comes to town the next week, Ohio State's defense will be put to the test as will the offense as Miller will have to be very efficient at getting scoring drives. The final game of the year for Ohio State is against Michigan at The Big House. If Ohio State rumbles through that schedule then it should be enough.


For me, it is very likely that Missouri stumbles somewhere along the way. South Carolina could possibly do it. Tennessee absolutely should not be looked past. They are now playing better than their record shows. That game at Ole Miss is going to be tough. The game against the Aggies will be a shoot out. IF Missouri makes it through that gauntlet then it would not surprise me if they end up ranked above Ohio State but the SEC Championship game will solve the two SEC team problem.

H1, who would OSU be likely to play in the Big 10 championship game, Nebraska? I don't think you could look past that one either.

(10-20-2013 11:32 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-20-2013 10:04 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(10-20-2013 09:35 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I saw on CBS sports site the projection by Jerry Palm...

He's got FSU #2 today...

And Ohio St is 4 and Missouri is 5. By a .03 gap, which isn't huge at all. And, that's w/o Missouri getting more help in the polls.

I am not quite able to project FSU past Oregon BUT I do think they are the better team and as things stand now if I was to pick one team that I think has the best chance to pull off the win against Alabama in the NCG, that team would be FSU not Oregon.


Missouri has South Carolina at home next week, Tennessee at home the week after. If they make it through that home stretch then they get a breezer at Kentucky. They get a bye week after that in order to prepare for their away game at Ole Miss. If Missouri is still in the hunt at this point then they better not look past that Ole Miss team. Then they end the season at home against the Aggies.

Ohio State has Penn State coming to town next week and Penn State has shown they are no slouch of a team. They will give tOSU a challenge but my Hawkeyes properly prepared the Bucks for a strong finish to the season. After that they travel to Purdue, have a bye week and then travel to Illinois. Hopefully that stretch does not undo what Iowa and Penn State will have done for Ohio State. When Indiana comes to town the next week, Ohio State's defense will be put to the test as will the offense as Miller will have to be very efficient at getting scoring drives. The final game of the year for Ohio State is against Michigan at The Big House. If Ohio State rumbles through that schedule then it should be enough.


For me, it is very likely that Missouri stumbles somewhere along the way. South Carolina could possibly do it. Tennessee absolutely should not be looked past. They are now playing better than their record shows. That game at Ole Miss is going to be tough. The game against the Aggies will be a shoot out. IF Missouri makes it through that gauntlet then it would not surprise me if they end up ranked above Ohio State but the SEC Championship game will solve the two SEC team problem.

H1, who would OSU be likely to play in the Big 10 championship game, Nebraska? I don't think you could look past that one either.

Actually that is still up in the air. It is between Nebraska, Michigan State and Michigan at this point. A comparison of the schedules leads me to believe that MSU might have the edge, that and the fact that MSU's defense is no joke. Now that they have shown some life with their offense, I am leaning towards Michigan State.

They have the easier schedule and they have Michigan at home where as Nebraska has to travel to Michigan. Nebraska does have MSU at home but Nebraska has already shown they have the capability of falling flat at home.

Nebraska also has to travel to Penn State the week before their Friday game against Iowa where as Iowa plays at home against Michigan the week before. Edge goes to Iowa in that regard so Nebraska has a pretty tough schedule going forward.

For now I would pencil in Michigan State to take on Ohio State in the Big Ten Championship and it will be a very good game to watch.

(10-20-2013 09:30 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-20-2013 01:14 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Ohio St could easily get passed by FSU this week.

FSU beat the #3 team in the nation. They should move up to #3 to replace Clemson, with Ohio State remaining #4, if there's any validity to the process...

FSU did indeed jump Ohio State and is now at #3 in both the coaches and AP poll. Missouri moved up to #5 AP, #7 coaches.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nca...8/3090987/

(10-20-2013 12:05 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-20-2013 09:30 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-20-2013 01:14 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Ohio St could easily get passed by FSU this week.

FSU beat the #3 team in the nation. They should move up to #3 to replace Clemson, with Ohio State remaining #4, if there's any validity to the process...

FSU did indeed jump Ohio State and is now at #3 in both the coaches and AP poll. Missouri moved up to #5 AP, #7 coaches.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nca...8/3090987/

Once in a while I do get a prediction right...

(10-20-2013 12:46 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Of course and I realize that but I base my opinions off of actually watching teams perform and analyzing their performances.

Problem with this approach is that how you perform depends on your competition.

E.g., going in to the 2006, 2008, and 2010 BCS title games, Ohio State, Oklahoma, and Oregon (respectively) were being hailed as awesome "point a minute" offenses. That's because of the numbers they put up against their competition.

But when they ran in to Florida, Florida, and Auburn (respectively), they scored 14, 14, and 18 points, WAY below what anyone had "actually seen them perform" throughout the year.

Now, look at FSU. They look mighty and dominant right now. But could they do the same thing to Alabama that they have done to the 6 teams they have played so far? I don't know.

I think the following statements are true:

1) Alabama and Oregon control their destinies. If they win out they are each in the title game, period.

2) In addition to one of the above losing, FSU badly needs both Florida and, especially, Miami to win out. It will be very helpful to their cause if Miami is a top 5 team when they play.

3) Likewise, Missouri badly needs Alabama to keep winning. If they are ranked say #5 going in to the last week, their hopes of vaulting over the likes of Ohio State and FSU to get into the top two can happen only if Alabama is still #1.

4) Ohio State needs FSU to stumble. They can hold off Missouri, but FSU will be above them if they both win it.