But... none of the good ones. At the extension, I don't know if things had ever looked better for the program.

(10-11-2013 10:49 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  The Greenspan situation is more opaque. Let's premise for a moment that Greenspan is uniquely incompetent and was singularly and directly responsible for Kazemi and Oraby wanting out. Why would Braun stay silent about all of that and support his boss while putting up the worst record of his career, likely irreparably damaging his chances to ever get another head coaching job.?

I suspect it is much easier for a coach to recover from a bad record than a very public dispute with his athletic director. Athletic directors, after all, play a key role in hiring coaches and are probably not terribly inclined to support a coach who publically attacked his last athletic director (particularly over a messy he said-he said conflict that is unlikely to ever have a clear resolution). In his next interview he can explain, privately of course, how the Greenspan done him wrong and nobody could have won with the players he was left with. Explaining away a public dispute would be much harder.

(10-11-2013 08:35 PM)At Ease Wrote:  But... none of the good ones.

That more than half of his recruits were so bad that we didn't care if they left is a problem.

Quote:At the extension, I don't know if things had ever looked better for the program.

Faint praise at best. I'm not sure I agree anyway. A lot was riding on a bunch of recruits. There were many things that could have gone wrong, and some of them did.

(10-12-2013 12:56 PM)jh Wrote:  

(10-11-2013 10:49 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  The Greenspan situation is more opaque. Let's premise for a moment that Greenspan is uniquely incompetent and was singularly and directly responsible for Kazemi and Oraby wanting out. Why would Braun stay silent about all of that and support his boss while putting up the worst record of his career, likely irreparably damaging his chances to ever get another head coaching job.?

I suspect it is much easier for a coach to recover from a bad record than a very public dispute with his athletic director. Athletic directors, after all, play a key role in hiring coaches and are probably not terribly inclined to support a coach who publically attacked his last athletic director (particularly over a messy he said-he said conflict that is unlikely to ever have a clear resolution). In his next interview he can explain, privately of course, how the Greenspan done him wrong and nobody could have won with the players he was left with. Explaining away a public dispute would be much harder.

This is the point I was going to make. Showing that you're willing to throw your boss under the bus (no matter how deserved) is not a great way to get a new boss to hire you.

Yes, but what kinds of jobs are you going to get after going 5-26 in year 5. that is a toxic record that no AD can hire.

I think Greenspan under the bus is risky, but maybe leaves a small chance that people will look at 2011-12 as your real legacy at Rice.

(10-15-2013 11:36 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  Yes, but what kinds of jobs are you going to get after going 5-26 in year 5. that is a toxic record that no AD can hire.

I think Greenspan under the bus is risky, but maybe leaves a small chance that people will look at 2011-12 as your real legacy at Rice.

He's not going to get hired by Kentucky anytime soon, if that's what you're asking. But by keeping quiet, he may have bought himself some more time to show he can do better. I'd argue a 5 win year following a 19 win year isn't as toxic as you claim, especially when there are some mitigating circumstances. Also, he has more in his resume than one year. I think, weighing his options, this was the smarter tactic, assuming that is what happened.

It will be interesting to see.

I will be surprised if Braun is the Rice coach after March 15, 2014.

And I will be more surprised if he gets another D1 head coaching job.

EDIT: I hope it is a pleasant surprise, as in we went .500 and won two games in the CUSA tourney. The alternative is the negative surprise, as in Karlgaard as inert actor.

The basketball magazines predict Rice as last in CUSA for 2013-14. If that happens, we need to get rid of Braun just because we will need someone else in the job to show that we are willing to reverse the downward slide.

MemOwl - not sure he won't get another opportunity. There are a lot of levels to just Division 1, and some much 1-bid conference school could get someone like him. Or he could probably easily retire on his earnings to date - I don't see him going back and being an assistant somewhere.

I'm confident Braun could get another D1 coaching job as it stands. He can at least explain away the 5-26 record last season that followed a 19-win season, and he has a long, solid resume. He's not going to get a high-profile job, but many of the bottom-half of D1 (some 200 or so programs) would love to have him if the price was right.

The problem for Braun (and Rice) is that he is too expensive. He's getting over a million a year, I believe. If he is willing to accept a pay cut, he will have no problem finding another D1 head coaching job.

Of course, if Rice fired him, he may just decide to retire off his buyout. He's certainly made enough money over the years. If Braun loves coaching -- and he did jump at the opportunity to coach Rice when he could have been at the beach with the same income -- he will get another shot to coach at the D1 level.

Willis Wilson was wise to go back to being an assistant, because Rice was the only head coaching job he ever had. He needed to learn a new approach. If he gets bumped out of TAMU-CC, then I think WTW is done at the D1 head coaching level... unless he became a successful assistant somewhere else.

(10-11-2013 10:11 AM)07owl Wrote:  

(10-11-2013 09:54 AM)mrbig Wrote:  Problem with any discussion on Braun's successes and failures is that it is hugely complicated by Greenspan and Morcos. We certainly know enough to say that Braun, on his own, has not been a big success. But do we know enough to say that he has been an abject failure? I won't cry if our new AD decides he wants to start with a clean slate, but I just hope he is able to piece together a complete of story as possible before making a decision regarding Braun.

I don't remember any insiders discussion or mentioning here the reasons for Morcos's departure (beyond the assumption that he was at least somewhat affected by Greenspan's alleged comments, along with vague allegations that maybe he was using some troublesome recruiting tactics). Obviously there are plenty of people who were pretty skeptical of Morcos because of his previous history, and Braun's decision to hire Morcos (good and bad) should reflect on Braun. But does anyone really know enough about why Morcos was pushed our or left to really put that on Braun? Same with the defections of Kazemi and Oraby. Braun has had serious, SERIOUS issues with guys transferring away, regardless of the Kazemi/Oraby/Morcos situation. And I know some feel like Kazemi and Oraby used the Greenspan situation as a convenient reason to further their own interests. But putting that aside, how much of that whole fiasco can we put on Braun?

If you believe he is at least somewhat responsible for the Kazemi and Oraby departures, then I can certainly understand wanting him gone immediately. But if you think Greenspan is mostly to blame by providing the impetus for those departures, the situation is cloudier. Even after losing Ennis and Reischell (and Ibrahim, also maybe Greenspan-related?), last year would have been totally different with Kazemi and Oraby in the front court.

Again, I am fine if the AD wants to re-boot, and by any measure Braun hasn't been a resounding success at Rice. But there are enough asterisks and caveats that I just don't know we can say he has failed either.

This is basically how I feel. If the admin wants him gone, I won't shed any tears. But he was at least on the verge of building the best team Rice has had in a long time before it all fell apart. If you're going to fire him for not being competitive this year, you might as well fire him now and get someone else in the job. After the transfers, this was basically a start up program last year. We have fewer walk ons, but it's still almost entirely underclassmen, and it's simply unrealistic to think we'll be competitive this season, the 2nd season in a start up program. If it were up to me, given that the extension is already in place, I would let him try to build something again, but if it doesn't work this time, I'd let him go. If he didn't already have the extension, I wouldn't give it to him, even though I don't 100% blame him for what happened to the program.

I completely agree with these comments.

The other factor that nobody's mentioned is the new "transfer culture" in NCAA basketball. Imagine if this same situation applied to football, and how our current team would fare without the services of Callahan, Gaines, Covington, Boswell, Taylor.....who'd perhaps all choose to play in front of 80,000 fans weekly....

If this current practice continues, I would find it hard to believe that Rice could EVER develop a tourney-caliber team....not with the kind of crowds we get at home.

We have many obstacles to overcome in men's basketball, but the expertise of the head coach may be the least of them.