i say yes

A conference with 4 tourney teams projected, the next 2 teams out projected, and 2 more teams that are within 20 spots of making the tourney- out of 10 teams- that's not a mid major.

Heck, add VCU and SLU next year, and that's a damn good conference.

NO. Absolutely not. I'm not sure what it is with this flurry of threads criticizing the Big East, but they're getting paid like a major conference and they have brand names like a major conference with respect to basketball. Every school outside of the 5 power conferences plus Notre Dame would trade TV contracts within two seconds and the Big East's contract doesn't even cover football. The Big East has ultimate poaching power within its category (non-FBS schools), which is something that not even the Big Ten and SEC can say. No amount of wishing and whining by the segment of the population that hates the Big East for whatever reason is going to change those facts.

(09-25-2013 10:02 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  NO. Absolutely not. I'm not sure what it is with this flurry of threads criticizing the Big East, but they're getting paid like a major conference and they have brand names like a major conference with respect to basketball. Every school outside of the 5 power conferences plus Notre Dame would trade TV contracts within two seconds and the Big East's contract doesn't even cover football. The Big East has ultimate poaching power within its category (non-FBS schools), which is something that not even the Big Ten and SEC can say. No amount of wishing and whining by the segment of the population that hates the Big East for whatever reason is going to change those facts.

We have a winner...

Seriously, the Big East may represent the only non-Football playing major conference. Which just formalizes in practice the way the media has always treated it.

(09-25-2013 10:03 AM)brista21 Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 10:02 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  NO. Absolutely not. I'm not sure what it is with this flurry of threads criticizing the Big East, but they're getting paid like a major conference and they have brand names like a major conference with respect to basketball. Every school outside of the 5 power conferences plus Notre Dame would trade TV contracts within two seconds and the Big East's contract doesn't even cover football. The Big East has ultimate poaching power within its category (non-FBS schools), which is something that not even the Big Ten and SEC can say. No amount of wishing and whining by the segment of the population that hates the Big East for whatever reason is going to change those facts.

We have a winner...

Seriously, the Big East may represent the only non-Football playing major conference. Which just formalizes in practice the way the media has always treated it.

sure gtown is a good program....

but
depaul.....

seton hall.....

providence.....

ok now this is starting to get silly.....

(09-25-2013 10:08 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 10:03 AM)brista21 Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 10:02 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  NO. Absolutely not. I'm not sure what it is with this flurry of threads criticizing the Big East, but they're getting paid like a major conference and they have brand names like a major conference with respect to basketball. Every school outside of the 5 power conferences plus Notre Dame would trade TV contracts within two seconds and the Big East's contract doesn't even cover football. The Big East has ultimate poaching power within its category (non-FBS schools), which is something that not even the Big Ten and SEC can say. No amount of wishing and whining by the segment of the population that hates the Big East for whatever reason is going to change those facts.

We have a winner...

Seriously, the Big East may represent the only non-Football playing major conference. Which just formalizes in practice the way the media has always treated it.

sure gtown is a good program....

but
depaul.....

seton hall.....

providence.....

ok now this is starting to get silly.....

What conference doesn't have it's dogs?

I mean case in point the Big Ten. Northwestern has NEVER made the tourney.

Yes. I'm not sure how you can compare a non-FBS football playing conference to a BCS football conference and come to a different conclusion. I understand that basketball is king in the northeast, but that makes it a regional conference now. How is the Big East any different than the other basketball conferences? Look at the tv ratings...nationally the audience for college basketball is at tourney time. Not sure that getting any number of teams into the tourney resonates with people outside of the northeast in a way that changes the perception.

I know Big East loyalists do not want to hear this, and this is not meant as a "flame" or "troll attempt", but nationally perception is ACC>Big East. You will hear about North Carolina, Syracuse, PITT all year becuase of football and basketball...you will only hear about Georgetown at tourney time. The Big East made that bed by abandoning football. Not fair I get it, but it is what it is.

(09-25-2013 10:08 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 10:03 AM)brista21 Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 10:02 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  NO. Absolutely not. I'm not sure what it is with this flurry of threads criticizing the Big East, but they're getting paid like a major conference and they have brand names like a major conference with respect to basketball. Every school outside of the 5 power conferences plus Notre Dame would trade TV contracts within two seconds and the Big East's contract doesn't even cover football. The Big East has ultimate poaching power within its category (non-FBS schools), which is something that not even the Big Ten and SEC can say. No amount of wishing and whining by the segment of the population that hates the Big East for whatever reason is going to change those facts.

We have a winner...

Seriously, the Big East may represent the only non-Football playing major conference. Which just formalizes in practice the way the media has always treated it.

sure gtown is a good program....

but
depaul.....

seton hall.....

providence.....

ok now this is starting to get silly.....

What's silly is the old straw man argument of "Let's list out the worst teams while completely ignoring everyone else" that way too many sports fans like doing. Marquette isn't a good program? Villanova? Creighton isn't selling 18,000 seats per night at a rate that even most power conference schools aren't able to do? Butler didn't go to back-to-back national title games recently?

Even putting aside the top teams in the conference, you know what's an important factor for a strong conference top to bottom (on and off the field/court)? When your crappy teams still provide value, whether it's in the form of a TV market, a strong fan base or a top recruiting area. This is critical because - guess what - EVERY conference is going to have crappy teams! DePaul is terrible (believe me - I've seen it first hand), but it's a massive school in a massive TV market with one of the best basketball recruiting grounds in the country and will be getting a brand new city arena. That's still providing value even when they're winning only 2 conference games per year. The Big East has that type of lineup - on-the-court records change from year-to-year, but they have a lineup of schools and markets where there's very little "fat" of complete non-contributors.

(09-25-2013 10:15 AM)LSUtah Wrote:  Yes. I'm not sure how you can compare a non-FBS football playing conference to a BCS football conference and come to a different conclusion. I understand that basketball is king in the northeast, but that makes it a regional conference now. How is the Big East any different than the other basketball conferences? Look at the tv ratings...nationally the audience for college basketball is at tourney time. Not sure that getting any number of teams into the tourney resonates with people outside of the northeast in a way that changes the perception.

I know Big East loyalists do not want to hear this, and this is not meant as a "flame" or "troll attempt", but nationally perception is ACC>Big East. You will hear about North Carolina, Syracuse, PITT all year becuase of football and basketball...you will only hear about Georgetown at tourney time. The Big East made that bed by abandoning football. Not fair I get it, but it is what it is.

The perception will be that ACC is the best conference in the country. So not sure what your point there is. Nobody is downgrading the Big East because Syracuse's football team just beat Wagner.

The perception will also be that the Big East is stronger than the Big 12, SEC, and Pac 12. How bout them apples?

(09-25-2013 10:27 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 10:15 AM)LSUtah Wrote:  Yes. I'm not sure how you can compare a non-FBS football playing conference to a BCS football conference and come to a different conclusion. I understand that basketball is king in the northeast, but that makes it a regional conference now. How is the Big East any different than the other basketball conferences? Look at the tv ratings...nationally the audience for college basketball is at tourney time. Not sure that getting any number of teams into the tourney resonates with people outside of the northeast in a way that changes the perception.

I know Big East loyalists do not want to hear this, and this is not meant as a "flame" or "troll attempt", but nationally perception is ACC>Big East. You will hear about North Carolina, Syracuse, PITT all year becuase of football and basketball...you will only hear about Georgetown at tourney time. The Big East made that bed by abandoning football. Not fair I get it, but it is what it is.

The perception will be that ACC is the best conference in the country. So not sure what your point there is. Nobody is downgrading the Big East because Syracuse's football team just beat Wagner.

The perception will also be that the Big East is stronger than the Big 12, SEC, and Pac 12. How bout them apples?

That remains to be seen, dude...

(09-25-2013 10:27 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 10:15 AM)LSUtah Wrote:  Yes. I'm not sure how you can compare a non-FBS football playing conference to a BCS football conference and come to a different conclusion. I understand that basketball is king in the northeast, but that makes it a regional conference now. How is the Big East any different than the other basketball conferences? Look at the tv ratings...nationally the audience for college basketball is at tourney time. Not sure that getting any number of teams into the tourney resonates with people outside of the northeast in a way that changes the perception.

I know Big East loyalists do not want to hear this, and this is not meant as a "flame" or "troll attempt", but nationally perception is ACC>Big East. You will hear about North Carolina, Syracuse, PITT all year becuase of football and basketball...you will only hear about Georgetown at tourney time. The Big East made that bed by abandoning football. Not fair I get it, but it is what it is.

The perception will be that ACC is the best conference in the country. So not sure what your point there is. Nobody is downgrading the Big East because Syracuse's football team just beat Wagner.

The perception will also be that the Big East is stronger than the Big 12, SEC, and Pac 12. How bout them apples?

Sorry, but I think you missed my points entirely. In basketball, yes the Big East has an advantage over the majority of the P5, but that alone does not make it a "major" conference. The Mountain West has better basketball than most of the P5, but no one is arguing that point. How is the Big East any different than the A10, WCC and MVC other than the number of teams getting into the tourney?

This may be semantics in how we all define a "mid-major" conference, but to me good FCS football + great division 1 basketball is a mid-major conference.

(09-25-2013 10:35 AM)LSUtah Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 10:27 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 10:15 AM)LSUtah Wrote:  Yes. I'm not sure how you can compare a non-FBS football playing conference to a BCS football conference and come to a different conclusion. I understand that basketball is king in the northeast, but that makes it a regional conference now. How is the Big East any different than the other basketball conferences? Look at the tv ratings...nationally the audience for college basketball is at tourney time. Not sure that getting any number of teams into the tourney resonates with people outside of the northeast in a way that changes the perception.

I know Big East loyalists do not want to hear this, and this is not meant as a "flame" or "troll attempt", but nationally perception is ACC>Big East. You will hear about North Carolina, Syracuse, PITT all year becuase of football and basketball...you will only hear about Georgetown at tourney time. The Big East made that bed by abandoning football. Not fair I get it, but it is what it is.

The perception will be that ACC is the best conference in the country. So not sure what your point there is. Nobody is downgrading the Big East because Syracuse's football team just beat Wagner.

The perception will also be that the Big East is stronger than the Big 12, SEC, and Pac 12. How bout them apples?

Sorry, but I think you missed my points entirely. In basketball, yes the Big East has an advantage over the majority of the P5, but that alone does not make it a "major" conference. The Mountain West has better basketball than most of the P5, but no one is arguing that point. How is the Big East any different than the A10, WCC and MVC other than the number of teams getting into the tourney?

This may be semantics in how we all define a "mid-major" conference, but to me good FCS football + great division 1 basketball is a mid-major conference.

The Big East DESTROYS the MWC in basketball.

How is the Big East different? Well, championships in the tourney for one. Sucess in the tourney. And yes teams in the tourney- if Big East gets 5 teams in and MVC gets 2 teams in- there is a HUGE difference there.

Also, these are different sports. How a conference does in football is meaningless for how they do in basketball.

(09-25-2013 10:08 AM)john01992 Wrote:  sure gtown is a good program....

but
depaul.....

seton hall.....

providence.....

ok now this is starting to get silly.....

I have to disagree with DePaul and Providence being horrible programs, especially DePaul.

DePaul
Tournament - 22
Sweet 16 - 10
Elite 8 - 3
Final 4 - 2

Providence
Tournament - 15
Sweet 16 - 5
Elite 8 - 4
Final 4 - 2

Seton Hall
Tournament - 9
Sweet 16 - 4
Elite 8 - 2
Final 4 - 1
Runner up - 1

(09-25-2013 10:46 AM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 10:08 AM)john01992 Wrote:  sure gtown is a good program....

but
depaul.....

seton hall.....

providence.....

ok now this is starting to get silly.....

I have to disagree with DePaul and Providence being horrible programs, especially DePaul.

DePaul
Tournament - 22
Sweet 16 - 10
Elite 8 - 3
Final 4 - 2

Providence
Tournament - 15
Sweet 16 - 5
Elite 8 - 4
Final 4 - 2

Seton Hall
Tournament - 9
Sweet 16 - 4
Elite 8 - 2
Final 4 - 1
Runner up - 1

whens the last time they have ever been good?

(09-25-2013 10:46 AM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 10:08 AM)john01992 Wrote:  sure gtown is a good program....

but
depaul.....

seton hall.....

providence.....

ok now this is starting to get silly.....

I have to disagree with DePaul and Providence being horrible programs, especially DePaul.

DePaul
Tournament - 22
Sweet 16 - 10
Elite 8 - 3
Final 4 - 2

Providence
Tournament - 15
Sweet 16 - 5
Elite 8 - 4
Final 4 - 2

Seton Hall
Tournament - 9
Sweet 16 - 4
Elite 8 - 2
Final 4 - 1
Runner up - 1

DePaul is one of those programs that really defies logic. Everything about it says it should be a hoops power.

(09-25-2013 10:50 AM)WNCOrange Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 10:46 AM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 10:08 AM)john01992 Wrote:  sure gtown is a good program....

but
depaul.....

seton hall.....

providence.....

ok now this is starting to get silly.....

I have to disagree with DePaul and Providence being horrible programs, especially DePaul.

DePaul
Tournament - 22
Sweet 16 - 10
Elite 8 - 3
Final 4 - 2

Providence
Tournament - 15
Sweet 16 - 5
Elite 8 - 4
Final 4 - 2

Seton Hall
Tournament - 9
Sweet 16 - 4
Elite 8 - 2
Final 4 - 1
Runner up - 1

DePaul is one of those programs that really defies logic. Everything about it says it should be a hoops power.

from what i hear things are looking up for them

no john, the big east is much better than mid-major. the big east will probably be one of the 3 best basketball conferences most of the time.

the real question is: what will the aac be? if we can hold on to cincinnati and connecticut, i think we're not really a "mid"-major either. if we lose them, we're memphis and temple and 7 basketball dwarfs (we'd basically be a little better than cusa of the past dozen years or so).

The term mid-major has no meaning outside of FBS football. If the new split puts the Big East, WCC, and MVC within a special category then we'll need a new set of terminology to describe that status. Mid major is taken and has no relevance for these BB conferences.

(09-25-2013 11:22 AM)jrj84105 Wrote:  The term mid-major has no meaning outside of FBS football. If the new split puts the Big East, WCC, and MVC within a special category then we'll need a new set of terminology to describe that status. Mid major is taken and has no relevance for these BB conferences.

Certainly not at a P5 level conference.

Better than a Sun Belt and Conference USA and MAC.

Not as good as the AAC.


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