(09-24-2013 12:49 PM)EPJr Wrote:  Proposed Principles and Model for a New Governance Structure

http://www.oneafar.org/Governance_Proposal.pdf

Thanks. I linked the thread, rather than the committee document.

(09-24-2013 12:40 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 11:49 AM)PGPirate Wrote:  Wait, so is D4 going to include all FBS members? Or all that can achieve a threshold?

I assumed that D4 was just going to split FBS from FCS/non-FB D1.

EXACTLY. D4 is going to include all of FBS. This debate is useless. Here's a link to the thread and NCAA Committee document on the subject:

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=651...pid9763386

The split is going to be from the BB schools, and it only applies to football, not other sports, for now, although that was mentioned, too. Plus, it's possible that the Big East and one or two other BB conferences will be included. Read the details.

Exactly. Other than a few quoted by some blowhard AD's or coaches, everything has pointed toward a split of FBS from the rest of D-1. Just curious, is this document from the Faculty Athletic Reps the base document for future NCAA governance meetings---or is it just one of multiple proposals that will be generated by each of the governing boards? I have not seen any clarification on that point.

No way the American is left out.

(09-24-2013 12:40 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 11:49 AM)PGPirate Wrote:  Wait, so is D4 going to include all FBS members? Or all that can achieve a threshold?

I assumed that D4 was just going to split FBS from FCS/non-FB D1.

EXACTLY. D4 is going to include all of FBS. This debate is useless. Here's a link to the thread and NCAA Committee document on the subject:

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=651...pid9763386

The split is going to be from the BB schools, and it only applies to football, not other sports, for now, although that was mentioned, too. Plus, it's possible that the Big East and one or two other BB conferences will be included. Read the details.

If they include the BE, but then turn around and leave out the WCC or the WAC; then I hope that there are lawsuits.

Just my SWAG at this, Four 18 teams conference, two 9 team divisions that Conference Champ goes to Top 4 play off. Big 12 merges with other conferences, and given incentives to do so. No independents in the New Division. Service Academies will not be part of the new division. Future expansion to 80 teams down the road.

PAC 12 – 6 teams
Boise St (MWC)
TCU (B12)
Texas Tech (B12)
Baylor (B12)
BYU (Independent)
Fresno St (MWC)

SEC adds 4 teams
Texas (B12)
Oklahoma (B12)
Oklahoma St (B12)
WVU (B12)

Big 10 adds 4 teams
Iowa State (B12)
Kansas (B12)
Kansas State (B12)
UCF or USF (AAC) – Get B10 in Florida Market

ACC 4 Teams
UCONN (AAC)
CINCY (AAC)
ND (Independent)
Houston (AAC) get ACC into Texas Market

(09-24-2013 03:10 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Just my SWAG at this, Four 18 teams conference, two 9 team divisions that Conference Champ goes to Top 4 play off. Big 12 merges with other conferences, and given incentives to do so. No independents in the New Division. Service Academies will not be part of the new division. Future expansion to 80 teams down the road.

PAC 12 – 6 teams
Boise St (MWC)
TCU (B12)
Texas Tech (B12)
Baylor (B12)
BYU (Independent)
Fresno St (MWC)

SEC adds 4 teams
Texas (B12)
Oklahoma (B12)
Oklahoma St (B12)
WVU (B12)

Big 10 adds 4 teams
Iowa State (B12)
Kansas (B12)
Kansas State (B12)
UCF or USF (AAC) – Get B10 in Florida Market

ACC 4 Teams
UCONN (AAC)
CINCY (AAC)
ND (Independent)
Houston (AAC) get ACC into Texas Market

The Pac 12 adding Boise State? I guess they can use the 1200 households that live in Idaho. When you look at one of those Verizon coverage maps the part that's not red is largely uninhabited.

(09-24-2013 03:10 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Just my SWAG at this, Four 18 teams conference, two 9 team divisions that Conference Champ goes to Top 4 play off. Big 12 merges with other conferences, and given incentives to do so. No independents in the New Division. Service Academies will not be part of the new division. Future expansion to 80 teams down the road.

PAC 12 – 6 teams
Boise St (MWC)
TCU (B12)
Texas Tech (B12)
Baylor (B12)
BYU (Independent)
Fresno St (MWC)

SEC adds 4 teams
Texas (B12)
Oklahoma (B12)
Oklahoma St (B12)
WVU (B12)

Big 10 adds 4 teams
Iowa State (B12)
Kansas (B12)
Kansas State (B12)
UCF or USF (AAC) – Get B10 in Florida Market

ACC 4 Teams
UCONN (AAC)
CINCY (AAC)
ND (Independent)
Houston (AAC) get ACC into Texas Market

Big 10 is not adding any of those teams. The only one they would even consider is Kansas. Iowa State is an overlap, so is Kansas State if Kansas gets added and neither us nor USF are even close enough academically to join them. In fact, Kansas is the only AAU school of the four which is pretty much an unspoken requirement for Big 10 admission these days.

There are plenty of other holes in your suggestion as well.

If I am reading it correctly, it will look like this. Correct me if I interpreted it differently.

Division "FBS"

• All 10 FBS conferences
  

Division 1

• FCS subdivision - no change
• Non-FB subdivision - no change
  

Division 2

• No change
  

Division 3

• No change
  

Quote:We have not engaged in close evaluation of the questions, for example, of which conferences and institutions should be identified as belonging to the new FBS division

But this part makes it sound like some kind of threshold must be attained to become apart of the Division FBS, if they decide to go that route.

So conferences or individual schools maybe get left behind.

(09-24-2013 03:10 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Just my SWAG at this, Four 18 teams conference, two 9 team divisions that Conference Champ goes to Top 4 play off. Big 12 merges with other conferences, and given incentives to do so. No independents in the New Division. Service Academies will not be part of the new division. Future expansion to 80 teams down the road.

PAC 12 – 6 teams
Boise St (MWC)
TCU (B12)
Texas Tech (B12)
Baylor (B12)
BYU (Independent)
Fresno St (MWC)

SEC adds 4 teams
Texas (B12)
Oklahoma (B12)
Oklahoma St (B12)
WVU (B12)

Big 10 adds 4 teams
Iowa State (B12)
Kansas (B12)
Kansas State (B12)
UCF or USF (AAC) – Get B10 in Florida Market

ACC 4 Teams
UCONN (AAC)
CINCY (AAC)
ND (Independent)
Houston (AAC) get ACC into Texas Market

I don't know what happens, but I feel relatively confident that it won't be this.

Quote:Whether there should be weighted voting in favor of the five FBS conferences that remain from the BCS automatic qualifier conferences (SEC, ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac 12), and perhaps the AAC, successor to the former automatic qualifier Big East Conference.

If they decide to make a weighted voting within their Management Council, I bet AAC will get the nod.

They might chalk it up to legacy or whatever. But the addition of the AAC will turn a 50/50 stalemate into a 60/40 split for the higher revenue conferences. That will allow those conferences to pass whatever legislation they think will benefit their institutions. And AAC stays alive.

Now if they further decide if the Management Council needs a supermajority, then you could see an addition of MWC or CUSA.

(09-24-2013 04:23 PM)PGPirate Wrote:  

Quote:We have not engaged in close evaluation of the questions, for example, of which conferences and institutions should be identified as belonging to the new FBS division

But this part makes it sound like some kind of threshold must be attained to become apart of the Division FBS, if they decide to go that route.

So conferences or individual schools maybe get left behind.

SBNation's interpretation.

Quote: The FAR Board uses "FBS" as a placeholder term for whatever the proposed new division would be called -- it is not, to be clear, meant to include every institution at the current FBS level. This would be a brand new tier for the big-money schools, leaving behind the mid-majors of the current FBS level.

Since I took a jab at that re-alignment map, let me offer an alternative:

Let's say the PAC does add four to go to 16:
-Nevada (PAC16 South)
-UNLV (PAC 16 South)
-Colorado State (PAC16 North)
- I don't know, but NOT BYU, TCU, or Boise State...

Let's say the Big 10 does add two to go to 16:
-Kansas
-Either Oklahoma (in the west) or Virginia or UConn(in the east)

Let's, just for kicks and giggles assume that the SEC adds two to go to 16:
-Clemson
-Virginia Tech (***Moves Mizzou to SEC West)

Let's assume the B12 adds 6 to get to 16:
-BYU
-Cincinnati
-Boise State
-ECU
-Memphis
-UCF

And lets assume that the ACC adds Notre Dame and now 3 to get to 16:
-Temple
-Houston
-USF

The rest of the "Go5" teams then will do what happens every time there is a shake up. They regroup, take stock, and move on.

(09-24-2013 11:28 AM)ecumbh1999 Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 11:15 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 11:01 AM)ecumbh1999 Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 10:21 AM)don41 Wrote:  

(09-23-2013 09:47 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  Without looking at budgets, I would imagine that most of the schools do. The only schools that might be in question would possibly be Tulsa and Tulane.

I think that the same thing could be said of most of the MWC schools; of those, only SJSU and Utah State might have issues.

I don't know anything about the budgets of the Sunbelt or MAC schools. In CUSA, UTEP would have the cash and Southern Miss would find it if they did not already have it.

In the end, the G5 schools that can "make it" will most likely choose to form the dreaded "Alliance" that so many wrongly pan. An 20 team league with pod play would work nicely. I would also think that BYU would join this circus as well to bolster their chances of making a playoff spot.

I would suspect that both Tulsa and Tulane have a lot more money available to them then does ECU.

Not as true as you'd think. Bigger endowment =/= more money for athletics.

Are you saying that endowment has anything to do with athletic departments? Rice has a bigger endowment than most schools in the country period. Rice also has a small athletic department budget. On the flip side, SDSU has a small endowment but a large athletic department budget.

Try to keep up, =/= means does not equal........

I said the oppsite.

OK, just wanted to know what you think about big endowment schools vs their athletic department budget. I get it; You don't think that it matters and you're probably right.

(09-24-2013 03:14 PM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 03:10 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Just my SWAG at this, Four 18 teams conference, two 9 team divisions that Conference Champ goes to Top 4 play off. Big 12 merges with other conferences, and given incentives to do so. No independents in the New Division. Service Academies will not be part of the new division. Future expansion to 80 teams down the road.

PAC 12 – 6 teams
Boise St (MWC)
TCU (B12)
Texas Tech (B12)
Baylor (B12)
BYU (Independent)
Fresno St (MWC)

SEC adds 4 teams
Texas (B12)
Oklahoma (B12)
Oklahoma St (B12)
WVU (B12)

Big 10 adds 4 teams
Iowa State (B12)
Kansas (B12)
Kansas State (B12)
UCF or USF (AAC) – Get B10 in Florida Market

ACC 4 Teams
UCONN (AAC)
CINCY (AAC)
ND (Independent)
Houston (AAC) get ACC into Texas Market

The Pac 12 adding Boise State? I guess they can use the 1200 households that live in Idaho. When you look at one of those Verizon coverage maps the part that's not red is largely uninhabited.

Boise's academics/endowment are NO WAY NEAR the other PAC schools. Boise will never get into the PAC.

(09-24-2013 04:23 PM)PGPirate Wrote:  

Quote:We have not engaged in close evaluation of the questions, for example, of which conferences and institutions should be identified as belonging to the new FBS division

But this part makes it sound like some kind of threshold must be attained to become apart of the Division FBS, if they decide to go that route.

So conferences or individual schools maybe get left behind.

Of course they will. But remember, right now, Div. 1 consists of about 344 schools. You bet a bunch will be left behind. Just not anybody in FBS.

Plus, people are making too much of this, at it sits now. It's basically the football schools pulling away form the BB schools, only in the sport of football, so they can make their own rules.

(09-24-2013 04:21 PM)PGPirate Wrote:  If I am reading it correctly, it will look like this. Correct me if I interpreted it differently.

Division "FBS"

• All 10 FBS conferences
  

Division 1

• FCS subdivision - no change
• Non-FB subdivision - no change
  

Division 2

• No change
  

Division 3

• No change
  

Exactly. The only debate is whether the BE and the WCC or A10 get included for some reason (as in for a future split of BB, too). For now, it would only be for some vaguely perceived prestige for the BB schools.

(09-24-2013 01:03 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 12:40 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 11:49 AM)PGPirate Wrote:  Wait, so is D4 going to include all FBS members? Or all that can achieve a threshold?

I assumed that D4 was just going to split FBS from FCS/non-FB D1.

EXACTLY. D4 is going to include all of FBS. This debate is useless. Here's a link to the thread and NCAA Committee document on the subject:

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=651...pid9763386

The split is going to be from the BB schools, and it only applies to football, not other sports, for now, although that was mentioned, too. Plus, it's possible that the Big East and one or two other BB conferences will be included. Read the details.

Exactly. Other than a few quoted by some blowhard AD's or coaches, everything has pointed toward a split of FBS from the rest of D-1. Just curious, is this document from the Faculty Athletic Reps the base document for future NCAA governance meetings---or is it just one of multiple proposals that will be generated by each of the governing boards? I have not seen any clarification on that point.

I wondered about that, too. I haven't seen one from anywhere else, so I'm guessing this is the only one, but no way to be certain.

Based on this one document, and all the media reports, it seems clear that this will include all of FBS.

(09-23-2013 09:47 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  

(09-23-2013 08:52 PM)EPJr Wrote:  a bigger question is does the AAC schools have the money to play in that division?

Without looking at budgets, I would imagine that most of the schools do. The only schools that might be in question would possibly be Tulsa and Tulane.

You should worry about your own school's financial wherewithal. It wasn't Tulane or Tulsa who was so cash strapped that they tried (and ultimately succeeded) in turning C-USA into a regional model. Tulane's put $100 mill plus and counting in facilities the last 5 years. Access to money, they've got.

P5 is now:

SEC - 14 teams
Big 10 - 14 teams
ACC - 14 teams
PAC 12 - 12 teams
Big 12 - 10 teams

So let's say the goal D4 is eight (8) sixteen (16) team conferences with no independents.. Then how do we get there?

SEC - adds Oklahoma and Texas
Big 10 - adds Kansas and Missouri
ACC - adds Notre Dame and Connecticut
PAC 12 - adds BYU, Texas Tech, TCU, Oklahoma State

Four more 16 teams conferences or 64 teams from need from the following 66 teams :

Big 12 - left with 4 needs 12 Baylor, Kansas State, Iowa State, West Virginia
MAC - 14 team
AAC- 11 teams after loss of Connecticut.
Sun Belt 10 teams
CUSA - 12 teams
MWC 12 teams
Independents 3 teams