(09-18-2013 08:09 PM)john01992 Wrote:  my beef with the b12 is that they dont give a sh.it about academics or non football sports. football may drive the bus, but all power conferences should at the very least have a minimal standard when it comes to that stuff and the b12 imo cheats because they are the only power conference that doesnt abide by that. they put money above all else and put the best interests of texas/ou above the best interests of the conference.

then theres the whole b12 homer aspect who fail to grasp just how bad they lost in conf realignment. thinking having a blueprint size thats half the size of any other p5 conference is a good thing, or the way they thought they had a chance of getting fsu, or thinking that wvu & tcu were quality adds. but my personal favorite from texas homers "aggie left cuz we were just too good for them."

thats why i hate this conference and thats why i know that it is destined to fail. it might be 2 years or 12 years but it already has headstone & a fresh 6 foot hole waiting for it.

So you are a hater that places too much emphasis on non revenue sports and didn't like the ACC rumors from the WVU crowd. Fine.

(09-18-2013 10:03 PM)S11 Wrote:  

(09-18-2013 08:09 PM)john01992 Wrote:  my beef with the b12 is that they dont give a sh.it about academics or non football sports. football may drive the bus, but all power conferences should at the very least have a minimal standard when it comes to that stuff and the b12 imo cheats because they are the only power conference that doesnt abide by that. they put money above all else and put the best interests of texas/ou above the best interests of the conference.

then theres the whole b12 homer aspect who fail to grasp just how bad they lost in conf realignment. thinking having a blueprint size thats half the size of any other p5 conference is a good thing, or the way they thought they had a chance of getting fsu, or thinking that wvu & tcu were quality adds. but my personal favorite from texas homers "aggie left cuz we were just too good for them."

thats why i hate this conference and thats why i know that it is destined to fail. it might be 2 years or 12 years but it already has headstone & a fresh 6 foot hole waiting for it.

So you are a hater that places too much emphasis on non revenue sports and didn't like the ACC rumors from the WVU crowd. Fine.

plus im the academia type as wel. the b12 is all about making money, the other 4 conferences love their money but dont exactly sell their soul for it

(09-18-2013 10:22 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-18-2013 10:03 PM)S11 Wrote:  

(09-18-2013 08:09 PM)john01992 Wrote:  my beef with the b12 is that they dont give a sh.it about academics or non football sports. football may drive the bus, but all power conferences should at the very least have a minimal standard when it comes to that stuff and the b12 imo cheats because they are the only power conference that doesnt abide by that. they put money above all else and put the best interests of texas/ou above the best interests of the conference.

then theres the whole b12 homer aspect who fail to grasp just how bad they lost in conf realignment. thinking having a blueprint size thats half the size of any other p5 conference is a good thing, or the way they thought they had a chance of getting fsu, or thinking that wvu & tcu were quality adds. but my personal favorite from texas homers "aggie left cuz we were just too good for them."

thats why i hate this conference and thats why i know that it is destined to fail. it might be 2 years or 12 years but it already has headstone & a fresh 6 foot hole waiting for it.

So you are a hater that places too much emphasis on non revenue sports and didn't like the ACC rumors from the WVU crowd. Fine.

plus im the academia type as wel. the b12 is all about making money, the other 4 conferences love their money but dont exactly sell their soul for it

Who's selling their soul? It's not like they are endorsing academic fraud to keep athletes eligible.

The amount of money a school invests in postgrad research in no way is relevant to a league "cheating" unless you are simply grasping at straws to find reasons to dislike that league. Obviously it may impact how attractive some expansion targets would find the league but other than that it's pretty limited in impact except maybe the B1G's CIC.

(09-18-2013 10:22 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-18-2013 10:03 PM)S11 Wrote:  

(09-18-2013 08:09 PM)john01992 Wrote:  my beef with the b12 is that they dont give a sh.it about academics or non football sports. football may drive the bus, but all power conferences should at the very least have a minimal standard when it comes to that stuff and the b12 imo cheats because they are the only power conference that doesnt abide by that. they put money above all else and put the best interests of texas/ou above the best interests of the conference.

then theres the whole b12 homer aspect who fail to grasp just how bad they lost in conf realignment. thinking having a blueprint size thats half the size of any other p5 conference is a good thing, or the way they thought they had a chance of getting fsu, or thinking that wvu & tcu were quality adds. but my personal favorite from texas homers "aggie left cuz we were just too good for them."

thats why i hate this conference and thats why i know that it is destined to fail. it might be 2 years or 12 years but it already has headstone & a fresh 6 foot hole waiting for it.

So you are a hater that places too much emphasis on non revenue sports and didn't like the ACC rumors from the WVU crowd. Fine.

plus im the academia type as wel. the b12 is all about making money, the other 4 conferences love their money but dont exactly sell their soul for it

The academic type? Does that mean you've never left campus, or held a real job in the private sector? That's usually what that means...

(09-18-2013 07:37 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  

(09-18-2013 04:55 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(09-18-2013 03:18 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  They can talk all they want but:

1) Even UT can't just shrug at a multi hundred million buy out

2) Nobody will take them with LHN and ESPN has no reason to let them out of it for the purpose of destroying one of their properties and driving up their costs.

3) The 3 red headed step children won't just let UT walk away and demote them to G5 teams. They are totally dependent on UT and won't just let them go.

Logical arguments won't get you anywhere with this crowd. The majority have a vested interest in ignoring it in favor of whatever will help elevate their school - or demote everyone in the B12 to their status...

After all, if you can't build yourself up, you can always tear somebody down. Either way, your self esteem is improved...

Obviously 10th is biased and wants Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma St to suffer and I can't blame him. I want the aggies to suffer as well and they will when johnny autograph and sumlin leave for greener pastures. The aggies might be getting paid but the rest of Texas will be laughing at them when they go back to their middle of the road Big 12 days.

Make no mistake about it though, the PAC needs the state of Texas for TV viewers and those 3 schools( Tech, OU and OSU) will no doubt fit their needs. Larry Scott knows it and Deloss knows it. The question remains who is the 4th school?

I like West Virginia and I hope they land in a power conference but the Big 12 is dead.

The PAC has already made it very clear they don't want OU, OSU or Tech without the real prize of UT.

They could have had all of you without UT 2 years ago but as soon as they found out the horns weren't coming, they said "thanks but no thanks"

OU may still be trying to play off their rejection as "we were just using them for leverage" but nobody believes that. They wanted out but the PAC said "not without my Deloss!"

And what about Baylor and Purple Baylor?

They're both absolutely screwed in that scenario so they'll be suing (for real this time) anyone who tries to leave or threatens the B12 standing now that they've invested a lot of money into that new stadium

Im sure your answer is "they cant stop us"...but I'll enjoy the show just the same!

(09-19-2013 08:25 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(09-18-2013 10:22 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-18-2013 10:03 PM)S11 Wrote:  

(09-18-2013 08:09 PM)john01992 Wrote:  my beef with the b12 is that they dont give a sh.it about academics or non football sports. football may drive the bus, but all power conferences should at the very least have a minimal standard when it comes to that stuff and the b12 imo cheats because they are the only power conference that doesnt abide by that. they put money above all else and put the best interests of texas/ou above the best interests of the conference.

then theres the whole b12 homer aspect who fail to grasp just how bad they lost in conf realignment. thinking having a blueprint size thats half the size of any other p5 conference is a good thing, or the way they thought they had a chance of getting fsu, or thinking that wvu & tcu were quality adds. but my personal favorite from texas homers "aggie left cuz we were just too good for them."

thats why i hate this conference and thats why i know that it is destined to fail. it might be 2 years or 12 years but it already has headstone & a fresh 6 foot hole waiting for it.

So you are a hater that places too much emphasis on non revenue sports and didn't like the ACC rumors from the WVU crowd. Fine.

plus im the academia type as wel. the b12 is all about making money, the other 4 conferences love their money but dont exactly sell their soul for it

The academic type? Does that mean you've never left campus, or held a real job in the private sector? That's usually what that means...

well considering im 21 an in college.....yeah technically

but the way i use the term is that i put value on academics in cfb.

(09-18-2013 10:42 PM)S11 Wrote:  

(09-18-2013 10:22 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-18-2013 10:03 PM)S11 Wrote:  

(09-18-2013 08:09 PM)john01992 Wrote:  my beef with the b12 is that they dont give a sh.it about academics or non football sports. football may drive the bus, but all power conferences should at the very least have a minimal standard when it comes to that stuff and the b12 imo cheats because they are the only power conference that doesnt abide by that. they put money above all else and put the best interests of texas/ou above the best interests of the conference.

then theres the whole b12 homer aspect who fail to grasp just how bad they lost in conf realignment. thinking having a blueprint size thats half the size of any other p5 conference is a good thing, or the way they thought they had a chance of getting fsu, or thinking that wvu & tcu were quality adds. but my personal favorite from texas homers "aggie left cuz we were just too good for them."

thats why i hate this conference and thats why i know that it is destined to fail. it might be 2 years or 12 years but it already has headstone & a fresh 6 foot hole waiting for it.

So you are a hater that places too much emphasis on non revenue sports and didn't like the ACC rumors from the WVU crowd. Fine.

plus im the academia type as wel. the b12 is all about making money, the other 4 conferences love their money but dont exactly sell their soul for it

Who's selling their soul? It's not like they are endorsing academic fraud to keep athletes eligible.

The amount of money a school invests in postgrad research in no way is relevant to a league "cheating" unless you are simply grasping at straws to find reasons to dislike that league. Obviously it may impact how attractive some expansion targets would find the league but other than that it's pretty limited in impact except maybe the B1G's CIC.

texas when they decided 300 mill was the price of making a network that was damaging to their conference and ended up losing aggie as well as limiting their name brand exposure (which is what cfb is supposed to be about) in exchange for $$$$

texas made a deal that usc, osu, michigan, alabama, or tennessee would never accept because it was fundamentally wrong

(09-19-2013 08:43 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-19-2013 08:25 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(09-18-2013 10:22 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-18-2013 10:03 PM)S11 Wrote:  

(09-18-2013 08:09 PM)john01992 Wrote:  my beef with the b12 is that they dont give a sh.it about academics or non football sports. football may drive the bus, but all power conferences should at the very least have a minimal standard when it comes to that stuff and the b12 imo cheats because they are the only power conference that doesnt abide by that. they put money above all else and put the best interests of texas/ou above the best interests of the conference.

then theres the whole b12 homer aspect who fail to grasp just how bad they lost in conf realignment. thinking having a blueprint size thats half the size of any other p5 conference is a good thing, or the way they thought they had a chance of getting fsu, or thinking that wvu & tcu were quality adds. but my personal favorite from texas homers "aggie left cuz we were just too good for them."

thats why i hate this conference and thats why i know that it is destined to fail. it might be 2 years or 12 years but it already has headstone & a fresh 6 foot hole waiting for it.

So you are a hater that places too much emphasis on non revenue sports and didn't like the ACC rumors from the WVU crowd. Fine.

plus im the academia type as wel. the b12 is all about making money, the other 4 conferences love their money but dont exactly sell their soul for it

The academic type? Does that mean you've never left campus, or held a real job in the private sector? That's usually what that means...

well considering im 21 an in college.....yeah technically

but the way i use the term is that i put value on academics in cfb.

For those truly motivated, it doesn't matter where they learn. Abraham Lincoln got a better education in a log cabin than many students do today...

(09-19-2013 08:55 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(09-19-2013 08:43 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-19-2013 08:25 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(09-18-2013 10:22 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-18-2013 10:03 PM)S11 Wrote:  So you are a hater that places too much emphasis on non revenue sports and didn't like the ACC rumors from the WVU crowd. Fine.

plus im the academia type as wel. the b12 is all about making money, the other 4 conferences love their money but dont exactly sell their soul for it

The academic type? Does that mean you've never left campus, or held a real job in the private sector? That's usually what that means...

well considering im 21 an in college.....yeah technically

but the way i use the term is that i put value on academics in cfb.

For those truly motivated, it doesn't matter where they learn. Abraham Lincoln got a better education in a log cabin than many students do today...

it has nothing to do with quality of education. conferences are held together by academics as much as they are held together by football

(09-19-2013 09:07 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-19-2013 08:55 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(09-19-2013 08:43 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-19-2013 08:25 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(09-18-2013 10:22 PM)john01992 Wrote:  plus im the academia type as wel. the b12 is all about making money, the other 4 conferences love their money but dont exactly sell their soul for it

The academic type? Does that mean you've never left campus, or held a real job in the private sector? That's usually what that means...

well considering im 21 an in college.....yeah technically

but the way i use the term is that i put value on academics in cfb.

For those truly motivated, it doesn't matter where they learn. Abraham Lincoln got a better education in a log cabin than many students do today...

it has nothing to do with quality of education. conferences are held together by academics as much as they are held together by football

So you're saying that academics has nothing to do with the quality of a person's education?

I wouldnt say its as simple as "academics'

Academics are part of what I call "peer status attainment"

Conferences are held together by being a group that WANTS to associate with each other because the members represent to the individual schools a group of their peers (culturally, academically, athletically etc)

If the conference is made up of schools that consider each other peers, they will remain stable and happy.

If a conference has members who don't consider the group (or not enough of the group) to be their peers then instability and unhappiness will soon follow.

(09-19-2013 09:13 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  I wouldnt say its as simple as "academics'

Academics are part of what I call "peer status attainment"

Conferences are held together by being a group that WANTS to associate with each other because the members represent to the individual schools a group of their peers (culturally, academically, athletically etc)

If the conference is made up of schools that consider each other peers, they will remain stable and happy.

If a conference has members who don't consider the group (or not enough of the group) to be their peers then instability and unhappiness will soon follow.

dude thats exactly how i have always felt.

maryland for example is as much of a b10 style school as you can get. even though they have been with the acc schools since the socon they have been a cultural outlier for the last few decades.

syracuse is a private bb/lax school. they fit in perfectly with the acc and would be a total outlier in the b10. even though we aligned football wise much better in the b10

(09-18-2013 04:25 PM)john01992 Wrote:  never in the history of conf realignment has a conference lost money after a schools departures. and that includes

big east 2003

This part is not accurate. The Big East had their TV contract drastically reduced when Miami and VPI left in 2003. Like cut in half. It lost bowls as well, which is real money. The Big East lost a lot in 2012 after the last realignment, including more bowls, NCAA money, and everything in between. Their TV contract was not reduced only because it expired, but the new deal signed is 1/3 of the old TV contract, despite every other conference getting double and even triple their old sums.

(09-18-2013 09:47 PM)Dasville Wrote:  Could someone link me to ANY media contract between a network and a conference? How about the jurisdiction section of said contract. Can the Conference exit the agreement? If so, what is the exit fee?

Those things are not made public. You can find basic terms of the deals, but the actual contract.

(09-19-2013 09:33 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(09-18-2013 04:25 PM)john01992 Wrote:  never in the history of conf realignment has a conference lost money after a schools departures. and that includes

big east 2003

This part is not accurate. The Big East had their TV contract drastically reduced when Miami and VPI left in 2003. Like cut in half. It lost bowls as well, which is real money. The Big East lost a lot in 2012 after the last realignment, including more bowls, NCAA money, and everything in between. Their TV contract was not reduced only because it expired, but the new deal signed is 1/3 of the old TV contract, despite every other conference getting double and even triple their old sums.

(09-18-2013 09:47 PM)Dasville Wrote:  Could someone link me to ANY media contract between a network and a conference? How about the jurisdiction section of said contract. Can the Conference exit the agreement? If so, what is the exit fee?

Those things are not made public. You can find basic terms of the deals, but the actual contract.

ive never heard of the BE contract being downgraded, and 2003 terms cut in half is like 1 mill at best. the BE was offered a major contract extension post 2003 anyways.

(09-19-2013 09:13 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(09-19-2013 09:07 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-19-2013 08:55 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(09-19-2013 08:43 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-19-2013 08:25 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  The academic type? Does that mean you've never left campus, or held a real job in the private sector? That's usually what that means...

well considering im 21 an in college.....yeah technically

but the way i use the term is that i put value on academics in cfb.

For those truly motivated, it doesn't matter where they learn. Abraham Lincoln got a better education in a log cabin than many students do today...

it has nothing to do with quality of education. conferences are held together by academics as much as they are held together by football

So you're saying that academics has nothing to do with the quality of a person's education?

im saying quality of education is not meaningful to the current argument

(09-19-2013 09:54 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-19-2013 09:13 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(09-19-2013 09:07 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-19-2013 08:55 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(09-19-2013 08:43 AM)john01992 Wrote:  well considering im 21 an in college.....yeah technically

but the way i use the term is that i put value on academics in cfb.

For those truly motivated, it doesn't matter where they learn. Abraham Lincoln got a better education in a log cabin than many students do today...

it has nothing to do with quality of education. conferences are held together by academics as much as they are held together by football

So you're saying that academics has nothing to do with the quality of a person's education?

im saying quality of education is not meaningful to the current argument

It should. And the fact that it isn't is part of the problem with education in America today. The rest of the world is educating their citizens better than we are, which didn't use to be the case...

(09-19-2013 09:33 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(09-18-2013 04:25 PM)john01992 Wrote:  never in the history of conf realignment has a conference lost money after a schools departures. and that includes

big east 2003

This part is not accurate. The Big East had their TV contract drastically reduced when Miami and VPI left in 2003. Like cut in half. It lost bowls as well, which is real money. The Big East lost a lot in 2012 after the last realignment, including more bowls, NCAA money, and everything in between. Their TV contract was not reduced only because it expired, but the new deal signed is 1/3 of the old TV contract, despite every other conference getting double and even triple their old sums.

(09-18-2013 09:47 PM)Dasville Wrote:  Could someone link me to ANY media contract between a network and a conference? How about the jurisdiction section of said contract. Can the Conference exit the agreement? If so, what is the exit fee?

Those things are not made public. You can find basic terms of the deals, but the actual contract.

A link to the old CUSA/ESPN (2005-2011) contract is floating around on this board somewhere. IIRC, there were no provisions for early termination. I would think the terminating party would be sued by the other for breach of contract.

(09-19-2013 08:46 AM)john01992 Wrote:  texas when they decided 300 mill was the price of making a network that was damaging to their conference and ended up losing aggie as well as limiting their name brand exposure (which is what cfb is supposed to be about) in exchange for $$$$

texas made a deal that usc, osu, michigan, alabama, or tennessee would never accept because it was fundamentally wrong

Ha! You are sooooo misinformed it isn't even funny.

Texas pushed for a B12 network and it got shot down back before Weiberg left as commish. Teams voted it down 11-1.

Then they went on their own. Also Nebraska was further along than UT and when the BTN was successful the two didn't want to pool any more after tons of sunk cost.

Also for the "equal sharing" benefactors you portray USC, Ohio State, Michigan, or Alabama to be... how much of their ticket revenue, merchandising revenue, or sponsorship revenue are they sharing with league rivals? Nope.

The LHN (now that it's getting carried) is going to help their brand (once they get a coach in who'll get them playing defense again). It's on all over the state (the only place it was intended for) and will elevate the exposure for non-fb, exposure for their players, and exposure for their coaches. It's a really good deal for them and I don't blame them.

Also the LHN was just the talking point of why A&M left that they used to get the natives to be more restless- it was more about elevating their own brand and differentiating from Tech and others. Both schools took the best deal for them.

(09-19-2013 09:25 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-19-2013 09:13 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  I wouldnt say its as simple as "academics'

Academics are part of what I call "peer status attainment"

Conferences are held together by being a group that WANTS to associate with each other because the members represent to the individual schools a group of their peers (culturally, academically, athletically etc)

If the conference is made up of schools that consider each other peers, they will remain stable and happy.

If a conference has members who don't consider the group (or not enough of the group) to be their peers then instability and unhappiness will soon follow.

dude thats exactly how i have always felt.

maryland for example is as much of a b10 style school as you can get. even though they have been with the acc schools since the socon they have been a cultural outlier for the last few decades.

syracuse is a private bb/lax school. they fit in perfectly with the acc and would be a total outlier in the b10. even though we aligned football wise much better in the b10

It was this simple: MD athletics is in a dire financial situation. They went with a way that they perceived would correct that. That is essentially 99% of the decision.

(09-19-2013 10:50 AM)CommuterBob Wrote:  A link to the old CUSA/ESPN (2005-2011) contract is floating around on this board somewhere. IIRC, there were no provisions for early termination. I would think the terminating party would be sued by the other for breach of contract.

You are right, I forgot about that. It was because of the ESPN lawsuit.