(09-17-2013 04:24 PM)PlayBall! Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 03:02 PM)john01992 Wrote:  nebraska has always lacked a true rival

In recent decades, until recently, it was OU, as posted above. But long term it was KU -- we had the longest football series west of the Mississippi.

Length of a series or number of games does not a rivalry make. We have played NC State 81 and Wake 77 times and neither is one of our rivals.

No. Nebraska is not an elite program any longer. The Huskers could easily dominate their division of the Big 10. But does that make them an elite program? Not unless the Big 10 becomes a Football elite conference again and one that goes 6 teams deep in excellence on average. Being better than Wisconsin which is not historically an elite program, although they certainly were under Barry Alvarez, is not that big of a deal. Beating Ohio State and Michigan regularly would sure help them but they can't, and it's not just coaching.

Nebraska removed themselves from the associations that made them great. They have no rivalry in the Big 10 like they did with Oklahoma. Oklahoma and Nebraska made each other as surely as Michigan and Ohio State, Alabama and Auburn, Georgia and Florida, and other great rivalries. Nebraska lost it's recruiting base, it's rivals, and it's identity when they moved to the Big 10. Now that they are no longer AAU they even at times seem like the Big 10's red headed stepchild. I feel sorry for them. I enjoyed watching the Huskers play way back in the Devany and then the Osborne era's. But those days are long gone now.

(09-17-2013 02:42 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 02:27 PM)LSUtah Wrote:  Nebraska is in the same boat as Tennessee...time will tell.

Agreed. Turns out the Osborne/Saban/Carroll/Switzer type eras are more of an anomaly than the norm. Remember, Minnesota would be in this conversation, too, if it is all about a stupendous era.

I think the current Bob Stoops and Mark Richt eras at Oklahoma and Georgia should be what a true blue blood should expect during a typical run with the occasional championship and once a generation streak of excellence. Nebraska and Tennessee are not there right now, but both can and will be if they invest and strategize properly.

I really like Stewart Mandel's pecking order article on the subject. Last year, he moved Tennessee down from a king because of an extended period of mediocrity. Nebraska is getting pretty close to that level now. For those who are curious, Mandel lists the following schools as kings as of last summer. He did note that Penn State is at the most risk of losing this title if it proves that the Joe Pa era was a one time deal for that school:

Alabama, Florida, Florida State, LSU, Miami, Michigan, Nebraska, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Penn State, Texas and USC.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/wr...z2fBFRwgi9

Wait...Mandel still considers Miami to be elite?

(09-17-2013 06:11 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Nebraska removed themselves from the associations that made them great.

No, Oklahoma removed themselves, by declaring when the Big 12 was formed, "We don't need to play Nebraska every year; our rival is Texas."

In a way, OU left the Big 8 and joined the Big 12 South. They hitched the Boomer Schooner to Bevo, and left Nebraska behind. Nebraska felt alienated in the Big 12.

(09-17-2013 06:47 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 06:11 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Nebraska removed themselves from the associations that made them great.

No, Oklahoma removed themselves, by declaring when the Big 12 was formed, "We don't need to play Nebraska every year; our rival is Texas."

In a way, OU left the Big 8 and joined the Big 12 South. They hitched the Boomer Schooner to Bevo, and left Nebraska behind. Nebraska felt alienated in the Big 12.

just goes to show how being a cultural fit is so important for the stability of a conference.

colorado & nebraska had no real rivals with any of the b12 schools. CU always felt more of a p10 school and UNL always felt like an outlier in the b12. its no surprise that these were the first two to bolt

(09-17-2013 03:02 PM)john01992 Wrote:  nebraska has always lacked a true rival

they need a true rivalry game with an opponent of equal program history. and it would be even better if that said program had no true rival either.....and it would be perfect if it was a fellow b10 team with a natty dispute between the two and a mutual respect gained after the way both schools handled the biggest scandal in NCAA history.

does anyone NOT KNOW which school im talking about?

ive never seen something so obvious.

Uh, Oklahoma? The Big Eight was Nebraska and Oklahoma!

For the Big Ten, the rival was suppose to be Penn State. Unfortunately, the Joe Pa scandal messed this up. Ultimately, I think it will be Nebraska-Penn State or Nebraska-Wisconsin.

(09-17-2013 06:52 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 06:47 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 06:11 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Nebraska removed themselves from the associations that made them great.

No, Oklahoma removed themselves, by declaring when the Big 12 was formed, "We don't need to play Nebraska every year; our rival is Texas."

In a way, OU left the Big 8 and joined the Big 12 South. They hitched the Boomer Schooner to Bevo, and left Nebraska behind. Nebraska felt alienated in the Big 12.

just goes to show how being a cultural fit is so important for the stability of a conference.

colorado & nebraska had no real rivals with any of the b12 schools. CU always felt more of a p10 school and UNL always felt like an outlier in the b12. its no surprise that these were the first two to bolt

This is not true. Nebraska fans and Oklahoma fans were hurt that the schools were placed in different divisions.

If Nebraska announced it would become a conference "free agent" at season's end and would seriously consider offers from all Division I conferences...

a) the AAC, MAC, C-USA and the Mountain West would fall over themselves (like that new Nokia phone commercial) to get an audience with Nebraska

b) The Big XII members would muzzle Mr. Dodd, then make its pitch to have the Huskers return "home"

Irregardless of their W-L record, their "name brand" suggests they are an elite program.

(09-17-2013 08:30 PM)chess Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 03:02 PM)john01992 Wrote:  nebraska has always lacked a true rival

they need a true rivalry game with an opponent of equal program history. and it would be even better if that said program had no true rival either.....and it would be perfect if it was a fellow b10 team with a natty dispute between the two and a mutual respect gained after the way both schools handled the biggest scandal in NCAA history.

does anyone NOT KNOW which school im talking about?

ive never seen something so obvious.

Uh, Oklahoma? The Big Eight was Nebraska and Oklahoma!

For the Big Ten, the rival was suppose to be Penn State. Unfortunately, the Joe Pa scandal messed this up. Ultimately, I think it will be Nebraska-Penn State or Nebraska-Wisconsin.

they were scheduled to play each other SIX TIMES when the b12 formed. im sorry but that rivalry was as good as dead for the last 15 years

(09-17-2013 08:34 PM)chess Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 06:52 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 06:47 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 06:11 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Nebraska removed themselves from the associations that made them great.

No, Oklahoma removed themselves, by declaring when the Big 12 was formed, "We don't need to play Nebraska every year; our rival is Texas."

In a way, OU left the Big 8 and joined the Big 12 South. They hitched the Boomer Schooner to Bevo, and left Nebraska behind. Nebraska felt alienated in the Big 12.

just goes to show how being a cultural fit is so important for the stability of a conference.

colorado & nebraska had no real rivals with any of the b12 schools. CU always felt more of a p10 school and UNL always felt like an outlier in the b12. its no surprise that these were the first two to bolt

This is not true. Nebraska fans and Oklahoma fans were hurt that the schools were placed in different divisions.

yeah and with OU in that southern division UNL became an outlier. doesnt matter what the fans felt

(09-17-2013 03:02 PM)john01992 Wrote:  nebraska has always lacked a true rival

they need a true rivalry game with an opponent of equal program history. and it would be even better if that said program had no true rival either.....and it would be perfect if it was a fellow b10 team with a natty dispute between the two and a mutual respect gained after the way both schools handled the biggest scandal in NCAA history.

does anyone NOT KNOW which school im talking about?

ive never seen something so obvious.

They need to get a heated rivalry with Iowa and Wisconsin going. Being rivals with Penn State wont really help them much since they aren't in the same division so any meaningful game will have to come in the championship game. Iowa would be a great yearly rival. Two corn lovin' states duking it out. Iowa needs it too.

(09-17-2013 10:18 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 03:02 PM)john01992 Wrote:  nebraska has always lacked a true rival

they need a true rivalry game with an opponent of equal program history. and it would be even better if that said program had no true rival either.....and it would be perfect if it was a fellow b10 team with a natty dispute between the two and a mutual respect gained after the way both schools handled the biggest scandal in NCAA history.

does anyone NOT KNOW which school im talking about?

ive never seen something so obvious.

They need to get a heated rivalry with Iowa and Wisconsin going. Being rivals with Penn State wont really help them much since they aren't in the same division so any meaningful game will have to come in the championship game. Iowa would be a great yearly rival. Two corn lovin' states duking it out. Iowa needs it too.

it needs to be a program of equal strength to be real.

WI has MN and iowa has ISU, plus those are established b10 schools

psu is new to the b10 relatively speaking and needs a real #1 rival

(09-17-2013 08:42 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  If Nebraska announced it would become a conference "free agent" at season's end and would seriously consider offers from all Division I conferences...

a) the AAC, MAC, C-USA and the Mountain West would fall over themselves (like that new Nokia phone commercial) to get an audience with Nebraska

b) The Big XII members would muzzle Mr. Dodd, then make its pitch to have the Huskers return "home"

Irregardless of their W-L record, their "name brand" suggests they are an elite program.

They are still elite. It takes a long time to lose that. If they aren't elite, Notre Dame stopped being elite 10 years ago. LSU was more like Kentucky than Alabama or Florida from around 1980 to the mid 90s.

Minnesota lost elite status. Colorado and Washington have slipped from being at the same level as a Georgia and Auburn. But it takes an extended period. And it takes some really bad years like Minnesota and Colorado and Washington have had. Nebraska merely had some mediocre years.

Take a step back from the sky is falling talk (which afflicted the Notre Dame haters prior to last year).

Nebraska has won 4 out of the last 5 division titles it has played for. That is what passes for "mediocre" when talking about Nebraska and the school being in a "down" period.

A school with the financial resources of Nebraska along with a fan base that has sold out EVERY game for over FIFTY years is elite. The poster that pointed out that the turnaround time is much shorter for a school like Nebraska is spot on. If you're truly "elite", then all it takes it one great season and it's as if though all of the mediocre years in between are effectively erased from the consciousness of the media and fans. We just saw it with Notre Dame and even Alabama. Remember the years at Bama with Mike DuBose, Dennis Franchione and Mike Shula (with a Mike Price hiring and firing without coaching a single game in the middle of it)? From 1997 to 2007, Alabama had a record of 51-54. 3 games under .500 over a decade! That wasn't that long ago and, for those with long-term amnesia, people were questioning then whether Bama was still elite (particularly with competing with the recruiting and market power of Florida), and now look at them. Nebraska definitely falls into that very short list of 10 or so schools where that same elite standard applies. Unlike 99% of other schools, Nebraska just needs one great season to make us all forget the acrimony, which is what makes them elite.

I think adding Oklahoma and Kansas to the big 10 would be great for the Nebraska football brand. Both OU and KU fit great into a 16 team big 10 setup but i'm not sure what the endgame would be or if its politically/GOR possible. My guess is OU would accept a big 10 invite since their president is very academic inclined, which would mean KU would accept.

(09-18-2013 10:01 AM)bluesox Wrote:  I think adding Oklahoma and Kansas to the big 10 would be great for the Nebraska football brand. Both OU and KU fit great into a 16 team big 10 setup but i'm not sure what the endgame would be or if its politically/GOR possible. My guess is OU would accept a big 10 invite since their president is very academic inclined, which would mean KU would accept.

im curious whats the b10s endgame?????

OU academics = a huge deal breaker

(09-18-2013 09:20 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Take a step back from the sky is falling talk (which afflicted the Notre Dame haters prior to last year).

Nebraska has won 4 out of the last 5 division titles it has played for. That is what passes for "mediocre" when talking about Nebraska and the school being in a "down" period.

A school with the financial resources of Nebraska along with a fan base that has sold out EVERY game for over FIFTY years is elite. The poster that pointed out that the turnaround time is much shorter for a school like Nebraska is spot on. If you're truly "elite", then all it takes it one great season and it's as if though all of the mediocre years in between are effectively erased from the consciousness of the media and fans. We just saw it with Notre Dame and even Alabama. Remember the years at Bama with Mike DuBose, Dennis Franchione and Mike Shula (with a Mike Price hiring and firing without coaching a single game in the middle of it)? From 1997 to 2007, Alabama had a record of 51-54. 3 games under .500 over a decade! That wasn't that long ago and, for those with long-term amnesia, people were questioning then whether Bama was still elite (particularly with competing with the recruiting and market power of Florida), and now look at them. Nebraska definitely falls into that very short list of 10 or so schools where that same elite standard applies. Unlike 99% of other schools, Nebraska just needs one great season to make us all forget the acrimony, which is what makes them elite.

Frank, I tend to agree that true blue blood status has to be very restrictive. You said 10 or so schools... who would you add or subtract from this list?

Nebraska
Ohio State
Michigan
Alabama
Florida
Texas
USC
Notre Dame
Oklahoma

i go wins heavy

michigan
osu
psu
nebraska
ou
texas
usc
notre dame
bama
tenn

any other school is tier 2 imo

I just think OU might get a pass on the academic angle with the big 10 since they bring a lot to the table. My guess is the big 10 endgame would be fine at 16 with KU and OU but that moves leaves the door open to build up if texas would also move into the big 10. Clearly texas can't stay in the big 12 with OU and KU gone but who knows where they would go. IF texas would join the big 10 the possibilities are endless otherwise its probably a 16 team setup. OF course, i'm not sure getting OU and KU for the big 10 is that easy. The pac 10 or SEC might be willing to bring in Ok state if OU were shopping around. Who makes the first move in all of this is big ? The pac 10 might not like the pac 20 concept but as Lville to the acc showed, the situation is fluid. If the big 10, sec or acc offers a deal to some big 12 school's, that deal can be leveraged to cut a better deal with another league. Right now, i don't think they big 12 can cut it with the other leagues, too small and not enough powers, so something needs to happen. I think the best move is for the 2 weakest leagues to join up, big 12 + acc in football only merge of 24 teams. Yet, that requires a rule change. Otherwise, more shuffling probably will happen. In that case, the big 12 probably is toast.

(09-18-2013 10:07 AM)john01992 Wrote:  im curious whats the b10s endgame?????

$$$$$$$$ (with the requisite level of perceived academic respectability)

Quote:OU academics = a huge deal breaker

Possibly, but I wouldn't call it "huge". OU is generally in the same hemisphere as Missouri, Nebraska, Kansas and Iowa State academically. At the same time, it was easy to use the academic card when dealing with schools that weren't legit money-making kings. Oklahoma is a different category. The Big Ten ultimately studied OU, which means that there has been at least some indication that they'd be willing to look at them.

The biggest impediment for the Big Ten regarding Oklahoma (and also Kansas) is more of whether the in-state brothers (Oklahoma State and Kansas State) need to be taken care of somehow politically. I truly believe that the Big Ten would be happy to take Oklahoma and Kansas *alone*. However, the Big Ten won't consider them if OSU and KSU have to be included. The Pac-12 would have the same stance. (It's a common misnomer that the Pac-12 "rejected" OU. What they were rejecting was the OU/OSU combo that appeared to be non-negotiable from OU's perspective at the time.)