(09-13-2013 06:16 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 06:12 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  This guy doesn't even understand that this is an across the board decision on athletics with a myriad of considerable factors. He throws it all on the football team changing conferences. Yes, football is obviously the big centerpiece, but this decision affects every athletic program (assuming we don't make a football only move which I highly doubt).

"This guy" as you label him is quite aware of what is at stake. Your comment is presumptuous and way off-base.

Well then he ought to pay attention to the details and articulate himself in an accurate way when he sends a letter like this. For those who do not follow this closely, he lumped the entire thing on football so what do you think they're going to think? You have to proofread your writing for accuracy before you send it out to a group such as this so I have every right to call him "this guy". That's irresponsible and ignorant.

(09-13-2013 06:31 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 06:16 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 06:12 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  This guy doesn't even understand that this is an across the board decision on athletics with a myriad of considerable factors. He throws it all on the football team changing conferences. Yes, football is obviously the big centerpiece, but this decision affects every athletic program (assuming we don't make a football only move which I highly doubt).

"This guy" as you label him is quite aware of what is at stake. Your comment is presumptuous and way off-base.

Well then he ought to pay attention to the details and articulate himself in an accurate way when he sends a letter like this. For those who do not follow this closely, he lumped the entire thing on football so what do you think they're going to think? You have to proofread your writing for accuracy before you send it out to a group such as this so I have every right to call him "this guy".

U Mad Bro?

Dr. McGraw was addressing his constituents (the faculty) and the other stakeholders (administration). The general impression I get of the email is that he is trying to reassure the faculty that the senate is aware of the concerns amongst the faculty, and he's urging them to wait to see the report and make an informed argument and that the BOV is unlikely to take action at the Oct. 4 meeting.

What about that makes you so butthurt?

(09-13-2013 06:11 PM)Potomac Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 06:08 PM)NH/JMU Saxkow Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 05:58 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  ugh....so the JMU senate will vote against it no matter what? I am curious how the faculty at App and GSU reacted. We know the firestorm at UMass, but that was to be expected.

I would guess that it is pretty common. Most faculty members are going to see any money going to the football program as money NOT going to their department. Of course, some have a negative view of sports in general (a view that has been around for over 100 years). But then some will be fine with it because they realize JMU's profile will be raised (if done correctly).

the president AND an effective president of the faculty senate should be able to convince people that it increases a school's profile, which then leads to academics.

Someone else mentioned on one of the threads that they give to the COB because of the athletics (or something close to that) - I went years not giving back until I got caught up with the football team back in 2003 just before the national championship - I started with the athletics and now I give back to the academic side of the university every year - I do the same for my graduate school now too. So my own experience convinces me that athletics leads to increased support and improving the athletics is good for the school as a whole. Whether that makes a difference to the Senate or faculty in general, I don't know, but it should make a difference to Alger.

(09-13-2013 06:53 PM)GeoJMU Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 06:11 PM)Potomac Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 06:08 PM)NH/JMU Saxkow Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 05:58 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  ugh....so the JMU senate will vote against it no matter what? I am curious how the faculty at App and GSU reacted. We know the firestorm at UMass, but that was to be expected.

I would guess that it is pretty common. Most faculty members are going to see any money going to the football program as money NOT going to their department. Of course, some have a negative view of sports in general (a view that has been around for over 100 years). But then some will be fine with it because they realize JMU's profile will be raised (if done correctly).

the president AND an effective president of the faculty senate should be able to convince people that it increases a school's profile, which then leads to academics.

Someone else mentioned on one of the threads that they give to the COB because of the athletics (or something close to that) - I went years not giving back until I got caught up with the football team back in 2003 just before the national championship - I started with the athletics and now I give back to the academic side of the university every year - I do the same for my graduate school now too. So my own experience convinces me that athletics leads to increased support and improving the athletics is good for the school as a whole. Whether that makes a difference to the Senate or faculty in general, I don't know, but it should make a difference to Alger.

This. A successful athletic program that participate at the highest level (FBS) is the frontdoor of fundraising - all institutional fundraising. The JMU Senate appears to have a hard time seeing this view. Just win, baby. The money will flow.

(09-13-2013 06:44 PM)MRD_DUKE Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 06:31 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 06:16 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 06:12 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  This guy doesn't even understand that this is an across the board decision on athletics with a myriad of considerable factors. He throws it all on the football team changing conferences. Yes, football is obviously the big centerpiece, but this decision affects every athletic program (assuming we don't make a football only move which I highly doubt).

"This guy" as you label him is quite aware of what is at stake. Your comment is presumptuous and way off-base.

Well then he ought to pay attention to the details and articulate himself in an accurate way when he sends a letter like this. For those who do not follow this closely, he lumped the entire thing on football so what do you think they're going to think? You have to proofread your writing for accuracy before you send it out to a group such as this so I have every right to call him "this guy".

U Mad Bro?

Dr. McGraw was addressing his constituents (the faculty) and the other stakeholders (administration). The general impression I get of the email is that he is trying to reassure the faculty that the senate is aware of the concerns amongst the faculty, and he's urging them to wait to see the report and make an informed argument and that the BOV is unlikely to take action at the Oct. 4 meeting.

What about that makes you so butthurt?

The fact that he misstated the facts and got it wrong. If he's trying to articulate information to them, he got it wrong. How can you be so ignorant as to characterize the whole thing as conference move for the football team? It's really not that hard to just make sure you're accurate about what you're writing. Either way, the faculty salaries won't change one bit whether JMU goes FBS or not. But, it's ridiculous to send something out to the faculty senate that misses the facts. No wonder people get worked up. They're getting the wrong information.

(09-13-2013 07:01 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 06:44 PM)MRD_DUKE Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 06:31 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 06:16 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 06:12 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  This guy doesn't even understand that this is an across the board decision on athletics with a myriad of considerable factors. He throws it all on the football team changing conferences. Yes, football is obviously the big centerpiece, but this decision affects every athletic program (assuming we don't make a football only move which I highly doubt).

"This guy" as you label him is quite aware of what is at stake. Your comment is presumptuous and way off-base.

Well then he ought to pay attention to the details and articulate himself in an accurate way when he sends a letter like this. For those who do not follow this closely, he lumped the entire thing on football so what do you think they're going to think? You have to proofread your writing for accuracy before you send it out to a group such as this so I have every right to call him "this guy".

U Mad Bro?

Dr. McGraw was addressing his constituents (the faculty) and the other stakeholders (administration). The general impression I get of the email is that he is trying to reassure the faculty that the senate is aware of the concerns amongst the faculty, and he's urging them to wait to see the report and make an informed argument and that the BOV is unlikely to take action at the Oct. 4 meeting.

What about that makes you so butthurt?

The fact that he misstated the facts and got it wrong. If he's trying to articulate information to them, he got it wrong. How can you be so ignorant as to characterize the whole thing as conference move for the football team? It's really not that hard to just make sure you're accurate about what you're writing. Either way, the faculty salaries won't change one bit whether JMU goes FBS or not. But, it's ridiculous to send something out to the faculty senate that misses the facts. No wonder people get worked up. They're getting the wrong information.

Get a grip. You're comments are so goofy you're embarrassing yourself. McGraw didn't misstate a single fact, in so far as the facts are known.

Over the past 24 months I've talked to a sample of roughly 100 JMU fans, 90% alum, 5% JMU professors & 5% other. I always ask. Overwhelmingly, I hear "I want 1A football." The professors I've spoken to want 1A football, I'd love to mention names. These profs opine that 1A is the clear best choice for JMU as a whole.

I think Alger can and will take JMU to a 1A conference, I think he has no choice and he knows it. If the faculty fight a move and if they win, Alger can remove the phrase "engaged alumni" from his vocabulary. Right or wrong, justified or not I think many young affluent alumni would stop or never start supporting JMU financially, academic or athletic if JMU does not make a bold 1A announcement in Oct 2013. It's time to increase the 7%.

I'll get out my wallet, I'll pay more DC dues, I'll pay higher ticket prices, I'll support professor raises, specifically COB.

Dream Bigger

(09-13-2013 06:53 PM)GeoJMU Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 06:11 PM)Potomac Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 06:08 PM)NH/JMU Saxkow Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 05:58 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  ugh....so the JMU senate will vote against it no matter what? I am curious how the faculty at App and GSU reacted. We know the firestorm at UMass, but that was to be expected.

I would guess that it is pretty common. Most faculty members are going to see any money going to the football program as money NOT going to their department. Of course, some have a negative view of sports in general (a view that has been around for over 100 years). But then some will be fine with it because they realize JMU's profile will be raised (if done correctly).

the president AND an effective president of the faculty senate should be able to convince people that it increases a school's profile, which then leads to academics.

Someone else mentioned on one of the threads that they give to the COB because of the athletics (or something close to that) - I went years not giving back until I got caught up with the football team back in 2003 just before the national championship - I started with the athletics and now I give back to the academic side of the university every year - I do the same for my graduate school now too. So my own experience convinces me that athletics leads to increased support and improving the athletics is good for the school as a whole. Whether that makes a difference to the Senate or faculty in general, I don't know, but it should make a difference to Alger.

That was me who stated it and it's very short sighted to not see that the people who have the ability to donate back to the university are those who enjoy athletics. I can go watch a football game and have a great time. I can't really just walk into a classroom. Give it up to reality.

In honesty, I don't know exactly where my donations go. It might be to a computer lab, a faculty member's salary, or a vending machine for all I know. It might be a new projector in a classroom. That said, there is really no reason for any faculty member to get fired up about athletics. I know that's the obvious impression, but it doesn't work that way. The letter sent puts football in the context as the big bad wolf which is ridiculous. If anything, a move up would help faculty members, not hurt.

(09-13-2013 07:30 PM)Purplehazed Wrote:  Over the past 24 months I've talked to a sample of roughly 100 JMU fans, 90% alum, 5% JMU professors & 5% other. I always ask. Overwhelmingly, I hear "I want 1A football." The professors I've spoken to want 1A football, I'd love to mention names. These profs opine that 1A is the clear best choice for JMU as a whole.

I think Alger can and will take JMU to a 1A conference, I think he has no choice and he knows it. If the faculty fight a move and if they win, Alger can remove the phrase "engaged alumni" from his vocabulary. Right or wrong, justified or not I think many young affluent alumni would stop or never start supporting JMU financially, academic or athletic if JMU does not make a bold 1A announcement in Oct 2013. It's time to increase the 7%.

I'll get out my wallet, I'll pay more DC dues, I'll pay higher ticket prices, I'll support professor raises, specifically COB.

Dream Bigger

I can't predict which way the final decision will fall, but I'm confident there won't be a "bold 1A announcement in Oct 2013"...it may come, but it's not likely until the BOV meeting in Jan 2014.

(09-13-2013 07:41 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 07:30 PM)Purplehazed Wrote:  Over the past 24 months I've talked to a sample of roughly 100 JMU fans, 90% alum, 5% JMU professors & 5% other. I always ask. Overwhelmingly, I hear "I want 1A football." The professors I've spoken to want 1A football, I'd love to mention names. These profs opine that 1A is the clear best choice for JMU as a whole.

I think Alger can and will take JMU to a 1A conference, I think he has no choice and he knows it. If the faculty fight a move and if they win, Alger can remove the phrase "engaged alumni" from his vocabulary. Right or wrong, justified or not I think many young affluent alumni would stop or never start supporting JMU financially, academic or athletic if JMU does not make a bold 1A announcement in Oct 2013. It's time to increase the 7%.

I'll get out my wallet, I'll pay more DC dues, I'll pay higher ticket prices, I'll support professor raises, specifically COB.

Dream Bigger

I can't predict which way the final decision will fall, but I'm confident there won't be a "bold 1A announcement in Oct 2013"...it may come, but it's not likely until the BOV meeting in Jan 2014.

The opponents of I-A will still be worried then too.

I've enjoyed playing UR, W&M, Towson, UD and all the yankee state schools, but I feel like we've outgrown our neighborhood. Would you rather build an addition in a crappy neighborhood or sell your house and move into a better community? The professors are just afraid of change.

"I think the Faculty Senate can make better, more well-reasoned arguments if we can look at the data in the consultant’s report before we take any action. I think doing so will make us look better – it will make us look as though we’ve based our conclusion on the evidence, rather than on a knee-jerk, “we-hate-football” attitude. I think waiting until after October 4 will allow us to present a stronger case, and give us more credibility with the President and the BOV. As a practical matter, I suspect the Senate will take a position against going to NCAA I-A either way, but I would rather have us try to approach the issue with open minds, look at the evidence, make a rational decision, then work to make a persuasive case to the administration"

Faculty Senate WTF. Go ahead and pretend you have looked at the issue. F this. We and the current students pay for all of this. Not you

I do believe the faculty deserves a raise, but I guess I wonder what will be different if JMU stays FCS that will allow or enable them to suddenly get raises on a regular basis? I think moving up and betting on increasing donations and revenues is the only real sustainable chance there is.

(09-13-2013 07:44 PM)Potomac Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 07:41 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 07:30 PM)Purplehazed Wrote:  Over the past 24 months I've talked to a sample of roughly 100 JMU fans, 90% alum, 5% JMU professors & 5% other. I always ask. Overwhelmingly, I hear "I want 1A football." The professors I've spoken to want 1A football, I'd love to mention names. These profs opine that 1A is the clear best choice for JMU as a whole.

I think Alger can and will take JMU to a 1A conference, I think he has no choice and he knows it. If the faculty fight a move and if they win, Alger can remove the phrase "engaged alumni" from his vocabulary. Right or wrong, justified or not I think many young affluent alumni would stop or never start supporting JMU financially, academic or athletic if JMU does not make a bold 1A announcement in Oct 2013. It's time to increase the 7%.

I'll get out my wallet, I'll pay more DC dues, I'll pay higher ticket prices, I'll support professor raises, specifically COB.

Dream Bigger

I can't predict which way the final decision will fall, but I'm confident there won't be a "bold 1A announcement in Oct 2013"...it may come, but it's not likely until the BOV meeting in Jan 2014.

The opponents of I-A will still be worried then too.

I'm not going to bet against you Horn. Maybe we should un circle Oct 2013. It's not even med Sept and we're pushing to yet another BOV meeting when "maybe" athletics gets discussed/voted/communicated/something. I'll not use ink on my calendars. It seems like free beer tomorrow, it's always tomorrow. The Carr report is finished, make a decision JMU.

The realistic 1A conferences and the members of the conferences we can join probably think this is getting old...

The BOV and President Alger need to announce the decision to move FBS as soon as possible after the Carr Report become public. Waiting only increases faculty opposition and allows time for alliances to form.

Faculty will be upset about the move to a FBS conference. I have no idea if the notion of a no confidence vote for Alger would take place. I am good friends with many faculty at UMW and many have an inflated perception that their individual importance has everything to do with the popularity of the university. We recently lost a Pulitzer Prize Winner but UMW still ranks in all the National Magazines. Our conference affliction is a long term investment in our branding and how we are viewed. Do we want to be viewed with schools like Elon, Hofstra, and Drexel or with ODU, Charlotte, and UAB. Faculty feel that the popularity of a school is mainly based on their academic programs and teaching abilities. While that is part of it, students pick JMU because of the popularity, and it offers a 24/7 campus. The marching band is a great example, 575 students participate and they are going to the Macy’s Day parade. If it were not for football, there would be no band.

(09-13-2013 08:57 PM)HMK Wrote:  The BOV and President Alger need to announce the decision to move FBS as soon as possible after the Carr Report become public. Waiting only increases faculty opposition and allows time for alliances to form.

Faculty will be upset about the move to a FBS conference. I have no idea if the notion of a no confidence vote for Alger would take place. I am good friends with many faculty at UMW and many have an inflated perception that their individual importance has everything to do with the popularity of the university. We recently lost a Pulitzer Prize Winner but UMW still ranks in all the National Magazines. Our conference affliction is a long term investment in our branding and how we are viewed. Do we want to be viewed with schools like Elon, Hofstra, and Drexel or with ODU, Charlotte, and UAB. Faculty feel that the popularity of a school is mainly based on their academic programs and teaching abilities. While that is part of it, students pick JMU because of the popularity, and it offers a 24/7 campus. The marching band is a great example, 575 students participate and they are going to the Macy’s Day parade. If it were not for football, there would be no band.

Exactly. Look at Stanford. Are they less of an academic institution due to Fbs football hell no

(09-13-2013 08:28 PM)JMUETC Wrote:  I do believe the faculty deserves a raise, but I guess I wonder what will be different if JMU stays FCS that will allow or enable them to suddenly get raises on a regular basis?

A fundamental change in the ratio in the amount of fees to tuition collected (without raising the overall cost of attending JMU) would make raises possible on a consistent basis.

It's not all that complicated....

Less fees collected = less money for athletics.
More tuition = more money for academics (that includes faculty salaries).

The problem is, JMU has committed its fee income to building BFS and other projects (like the new Convo). The pressing concern now is a move to FBS would ingrain the necessity of continuing an unbalanced fee and tuition structure...thus shortchanging academics and faculty salaries.

Thanks for sharing that Longhorn- very interesting.

I have to say in all frankness though, I am disturbed the author needed to put in this statement:
" As a practical matter, I suspect the Senate will take a position against going to NCAA I-A either way" as a preamble to being open minded and fair in making a recommendation. That is a statement that has motive and should not have been included.

(09-13-2013 08:57 PM)HMK Wrote:  The BOV and President Alger need to announce the decision to move FBS as soon as possible after the Carr Report become public. Waiting only increases faculty opposition and allows time for alliances to form.

I don't presume to know what Alger will do, but your suggestion that he move fast in order to cut-short an open and honest discussion would only exacerbate the potential hard feelings. I doubt Alger will make a decision until all parties have had they say, and I expect Alger to address the Faculty Senate on October 17 (should that be the date of their special meeting).

(09-13-2013 09:58 PM)olddawg Wrote:  Thanks for sharing that Longhorn- very interesting.

I have to say in all frankness though, I am disturbed the author needed to put in this statement:
" As a practical matter, I suspect the Senate will take a position against going to NCAA I-A either way" as a preamble to being open minded and fair in making a recommendation. That is a statement that has motive and should not have been included.

I didn't like that statement either...and I'm not sure who David has been talking to that led him to think that way.