Jason Whitlock from ESPN slams (and I mean slams) one of the key players in the Sports Illustrated article. He claims that Thayer Evans is a huge Oklahoma homer.
I'm not a Jason Whitlock fan but this is still quite interesting.

Here is the link.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/post.asp...s/11-22173

So you have 2 reporters who don't like each other, and one is playing lil girl on the school yard and scratching out the eyes of the other.

Shooting The Messenger 101.

Lofi, Whitlock's points are well made and I always appreciate his brutally honest take on things - even if I don't always agree with his actual point.

In this instance, I absolutely agree with him that the corruption angle is beyond played out. We get it, schools cheat like hell and usually get away with it. Also, the Southern schools seem to be more brazen in their cheating than those in the Midwest, Northeast and West.

My sincere hope is that if the Power 5 league schools do break off from the rest of college football and if they do simplify the rules, they accompany that newfound freedom with a commensurate level of punishment for those who enjoy that freedom and STILL break the rules.

Meaning, if you are permitted to give cost of living stipends and have greater contact with recruits and all of the rest of it, that's fine. However, at the same time, if you have all of those freedoms and you are still paying for prostitutes to have sex with recruits as Joe DeForest is alleged to have done at Oklahoma State, then he should be banned from coaching, period. Also, OSU should have the book thrown at it - and I mean really sharp penalties - regardless if the SI writer who broke the story is an Oklahoma homer, or a Washington State alum or if he grew up in New Hampshire.

I understand that the NCAA, as it is currently constituted, is basically paralyzed from doing much to anyone these days. That's why the cheating has become so out of control. Schools KNOW they are going to get away with it.

However, if they do overhaul the system - as they keep threatening to do - I hope they do the right thing and genuinely reform things instead of just making it easier for schools to cheat.

Finally, in the interest of honest conversation, you should have pointed out that half of the Oklahoma State staff that allegedly participated in all sorts of different cheating is now at West Virginia. Therefore, you have a vested interest in discrediting this report.

(09-12-2013 06:38 AM)lofi Wrote:  Jason Whitlock from ESPN slams (and I mean slams) one of the key players in the Sports Illustrated article. He claims that Thayer Evans is a huge Oklahoma homer.
I'm not a Jason Whitlock fan but this is still quite interesting.

Here is the link.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/post.asp...s/11-22173

Evans is a hack. As soon as I heard he wrote it I disregarded the article.

Dohrmann was the guy who broke the Minnesota basketball scandal and he won a freaking PULITZER PRIZE for it. They don't just give those out in vending machines. Which is why, I suspect Whitlock gives his "well I don't know that guy" bit towards Dohrmann. Because it's fine to rip some guy you don't like, and claim he "can't spell cat" but he won't dare rip a guy who won the highest prize in journalism - something that a hack like Whitlock couldn't touch in his wildest dreams.

(09-12-2013 07:34 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Lofi, Whitlock's points are well made and I always appreciate his brutally honest take on things - even if I don't always agree with his actual point.

In this instance, I absolutely agree with him that the corruption angle is beyond played out. We get it, schools cheat like hell and usually get away with it. Also, the Southern schools seem to be more brazen in their cheating than those in the Midwest, Northeast and West.

My sincere hope is that if the Power 5 league schools do break off from the rest of college football and if they do simplify the rules, they accompany that newfound freedom with a commensurate level of punishment for those who enjoy that freedom and STILL break the rules.

Meaning, if you are permitted to give cost of living stipends and have greater contact with recruits and all of the rest of it, that's fine. However, at the same time, if you have all of those freedoms and you are still paying for prostitutes to have sex with recruits as Joe DeForest is alleged to have done at Oklahoma State, then he should be banned from coaching, period. Also, OSU should have the book thrown at it - and I mean really sharp penalties - regardless if the SI writer who broke the story is an Oklahoma homer, or a Washington State alum or if he grew up in New Hampshire.

I understand that the NCAA, as it is currently constituted, is basically paralyzed from doing much to anyone these days. That's why the cheating has become so out of control. Schools KNOW they are going to get away with it.

However, if they do overhaul the system - as they keep threatening to do - I hope they do the right thing and genuinely reform things instead of just making it easier for schools to cheat.

Finally, in the interest of honest conversation, you should have pointed out that half of the Oklahoma State staff that allegedly participated in all sorts of different cheating is now at West Virginia. Therefore, you have a vested interest in discrediting this report.

A P5 breakaway won't stop cheating any more than the repeal of Prohibition killed the mafia.

The point of cheating is to put you at an advantage over the "all things being equal" rules.

Awarding a $4,000 stipend won't end cheating. If you can get the stipend at Alabama and you can get it at Mississippi State the bulk of top recruits will Alabama because of the name, the national titles, the crowds, the TV love. People associated with Miss St will be tempted to offer more to overcome that advantage. People associated with Bama knowing or suspecting Miss St is cheating will make their own offers to match or overcome the advantage gained by Miss State cheating.

Recruiting de-regulation does nothing other than getting the NCAA out of the business of ticky secondary violations where a school called a recruit a day early or sent a book with color photos when only black and white photos were allowed or they put too much of the wrong food on the table during a visit.

The stipend does nothing to offset cheating either. All it does is soothe the conscience of university presidents who see a coach getting $5 million a year while players borrow money for basic living expenses and it raises the cost of doing business for the hanger-ons at the other end of the 340+ school spectrum.

(09-12-2013 08:04 AM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  Dohrmann was the guy who broke the Minnesota basketball scandal and he won a freaking PULITZER PRIZE for it. They don't just give those out in vending machines. Which is why, I suspect Whitlock gives his "well I don't know that guy" bit towards Dohrmann. Because it's fine to rip some guy you don't like, and claim he "can't spell cat" but he won't dare rip a guy who won the highest prize in journalism - something that a hack like Whitlock couldn't touch in his wildest dreams.

http://georgedohrmann.com/about-george


Dohrmann is an ND grad. I am almost shocked that bastage Whitlock didn't use that fact to launch another of his usual anti-ND rants.

Whitlock must be slipping in his old age.......

whitlock did call out ESPNs investigation into to syracuse with the bernie fine fiasco

and ended up being correct about it......

(09-12-2013 07:55 AM)S11 Wrote:  

(09-12-2013 06:38 AM)lofi Wrote:  Jason Whitlock from ESPN slams (and I mean slams) one of the key players in the Sports Illustrated article. He claims that Thayer Evans is a huge Oklahoma homer.
I'm not a Jason Whitlock fan but this is still quite interesting.

Here is the link.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/post.asp...s/11-22173

Evans is a hack. As soon as I heard he wrote it I disregarded the article.

It wasn't Evans that made me disregard the SI.com article. It was the lack of physical evidence. All they had was hearsay evidence, and it all came from players who were dismissed from the team...

The Yahoo article about the 5 SEC players accepting money from an agent had a bunch of PROOF to back it up. The SI.com article had nothing...

(09-12-2013 08:06 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(09-12-2013 07:34 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Lofi, Whitlock's points are well made and I always appreciate his brutally honest take on things - even if I don't always agree with his actual point.

In this instance, I absolutely agree with him that the corruption angle is beyond played out. We get it, schools cheat like hell and usually get away with it. Also, the Southern schools seem to be more brazen in their cheating than those in the Midwest, Northeast and West.

My sincere hope is that if the Power 5 league schools do break off from the rest of college football and if they do simplify the rules, they accompany that newfound freedom with a commensurate level of punishment for those who enjoy that freedom and STILL break the rules.

Meaning, if you are permitted to give cost of living stipends and have greater contact with recruits and all of the rest of it, that's fine. However, at the same time, if you have all of those freedoms and you are still paying for prostitutes to have sex with recruits as Joe DeForest is alleged to have done at Oklahoma State, then he should be banned from coaching, period. Also, OSU should have the book thrown at it - and I mean really sharp penalties - regardless if the SI writer who broke the story is an Oklahoma homer, or a Washington State alum or if he grew up in New Hampshire.

I understand that the NCAA, as it is currently constituted, is basically paralyzed from doing much to anyone these days. That's why the cheating has become so out of control. Schools KNOW they are going to get away with it.

However, if they do overhaul the system - as they keep threatening to do - I hope they do the right thing and genuinely reform things instead of just making it easier for schools to cheat.

Finally, in the interest of honest conversation, you should have pointed out that half of the Oklahoma State staff that allegedly participated in all sorts of different cheating is now at West Virginia. Therefore, you have a vested interest in discrediting this report.

A P5 breakaway won't stop cheating any more than the repeal of Prohibition killed the mafia.

The point of cheating is to put you at an advantage over the "all things being equal" rules.

Awarding a $4,000 stipend won't end cheating. If you can get the stipend at Alabama and you can get it at Mississippi State the bulk of top recruits will Alabama because of the name, the national titles, the crowds, the TV love. People associated with Miss St will be tempted to offer more to overcome that advantage. People associated with Bama knowing or suspecting Miss St is cheating will make their own offers to match or overcome the advantage gained by Miss State cheating.

Recruiting de-regulation does nothing other than getting the NCAA out of the business of ticky secondary violations where a school called a recruit a day early or sent a book with color photos when only black and white photos were allowed or they put too much of the wrong food on the table during a visit.

The stipend does nothing to offset cheating either. All it does is soothe the conscience of university presidents who see a coach getting $5 million a year while players borrow money for basic living expenses and it raises the cost of doing business for the hanger-ons at the other end of the 340+ school spectrum.

Agree with Arky State. People are still going to cheat. Universities could pay these athletes $50K a year and they still will take extra cash, a car, the women, etc. That being said I do agree with Dr. Yinzer in saying that if some reforms are made they need to swiftly crack down on those that do break the rules. Enough of this suspending a player for 1/2 a game BS or purposely delaying an investigating to help protected schools.

(09-12-2013 07:34 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Finally, in the interest of honest conversation, you should have pointed out that half of the Oklahoma State staff that allegedly participated in all sorts of different cheating is now at West Virginia. Therefore, you have a vested interest in discrediting this report.

In case you missed the memo, the only people currently at WVU from OSU's staff are Joe DeForest and Dana Holgorsen, and Holgorsen wasn't mentioned, since he was only at OSU one year. How does this equal half the OSU staff? Your math is as bad as my memory...

Of the other people that were at OSU and then went to WVU, Jake Spavital is now at Texas A&M coaching Johnny Manziel and the other A&M QBs, and Robert Gillespie is now coaching Tennessee's RBs. You need to keep yourself up to date, especially if you're going to start pointing fingers...

(09-12-2013 07:34 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Lofi, Whitlock's points are well made and I always appreciate his brutally honest take on things - even if I don't always agree with his actual point.

In this instance, I absolutely agree with him that the corruption angle is beyond played out. We get it, schools cheat like hell and usually get away with it. Also, the Southern schools seem to be more brazen in their cheating than those in the Midwest, Northeast and West.

My sincere hope is that if the Power 5 league schools do break off from the rest of college football and if they do simplify the rules, they accompany that newfound freedom with a commensurate level of punishment for those who enjoy that freedom and STILL break the rules.

Meaning, if you are permitted to give cost of living stipends and have greater contact with recruits and all of the rest of it, that's fine. However, at the same time, if you have all of those freedoms and you are still paying for prostitutes to have sex with recruits as Joe DeForest is alleged to have done at Oklahoma State, then he should be banned from coaching, period. Also, OSU should have the book thrown at it - and I mean really sharp penalties - regardless if the SI writer who broke the story is an Oklahoma homer, or a Washington State alum or if he grew up in New Hampshire.

I understand that the NCAA, as it is currently constituted, is basically paralyzed from doing much to anyone these days. That's why the cheating has become so out of control. Schools KNOW they are going to get away with it.

However, if they do overhaul the system - as they keep threatening to do - I hope they do the right thing and genuinely reform things instead of just making it easier for schools to cheat.

Finally, in the interest of honest conversation, you should have pointed out that half of the Oklahoma State staff that allegedly participated in all sorts of different cheating is now at West Virginia. Therefore, you have a vested interest in discrediting this report.

I agree with just about everything you said except the last paragraph. I would figure that the majority of the people on this board know where Joe Deforest currently coaches.
He is being paid a half million to coach our special teams after running our defense into the ground last year. A large percentage of WVU fans (including myself) would be thrilled to see him go bye bye.
Our head coach only coached there one year (2010) and I don't see any damning evidence against him.
In no way do I discredit this report. I just said it was an interesting take.

I discredit the report. Look at the difference between the Yahoo and SI articles. Even the headlines point out the difference, as the Smoking Musket pointed out earlier today...

Quote:It's a true sign of the times that in the same week Dorhmann and Evans have gone all-in with their attempted take-down of the 2007 Cowboys, Charles Robinson and Rand Getlin have shown us once again why digital media sites like Yahoo! own the lumbering dinosaurs of the past like SI. Their tale of agent go-betweens and illicit payments is no less shocking, but the reporting is done with a level of sophistication that makes the SI effort comical in comparison. Hell, the very headline of the Yahoo! article seems to be mocking SI as it says "Documents, text messages reveal impermissible benefits to five SEC players." The word "document' is nowhere to be found in the SI piece.

Yahoo comes out with PROOF, while SI gives us nothing but hearsay. The quality of reporting by SI.com sucks, and Yahoo rubbed their nose in it just after it came out too...

You should check out how the Pistols Firing blog has broken it all down. It's a riot...

I guess we'll be awaiting Oklahoma State's libel suit in that case. Bet that won't happen though.

(09-12-2013 12:13 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  I guess we'll be awaiting Oklahoma State's libel suit in that case. Bet that won't happen though.

Why? The majority of the stuff in SI.com's report comes from 2009 and before, which the NCAA's statute of limitations renders irrelevant, whether it's true or not...

And SI.com still has to PROVE their story is true. Hearsay from a bunch of disgruntled players who couldn't get on the field isn't PROOF...

If they can't come up with PROOF, OSU could very well seek vengeance upon SI.com and the writers for their slanderous poor reporting. We will find that out L8r...

SI's Seth Davis: "People attacking SI's credibility are fighting a losing battle. Our editors have editors. Our lawyers have lawyers. This was fully vetted."

I bet Oklahoma State doesn't want to open up that can of worms.

I do not know how a university can monitor what a player does with an agent or other enterprise. I understand the problem of the school providing illegal monies or other favors to student athletes. I guess we could just get the NSA to monitor all of their cell phone calls. Most parents cannot even control their own kids. How can a university monitor 100 football players 24/7? Once the athlete leaves the school, he has nothing to worry about. He signs his million dollar NFL contract, and the university he attended gets hammered. Maybe the NFL should start dealing with these cheaters as well...

(09-12-2013 10:27 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(09-12-2013 07:55 AM)S11 Wrote:  Evans is a hack. As soon as I heard he wrote it I disregarded the article.

It wasn't Evans that made me disregard the SI.com article. It was the lack of physical evidence. All they had was hearsay evidence, and it all came from players who were dismissed from the team...

The Yahoo article about the 5 SEC players accepting money from an agent had a bunch of PROOF to back it up. The SI.com article had nothing...

Evans might as well equal "lack of physical evidence".

(09-12-2013 12:13 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  I guess we'll be awaiting Oklahoma State's libel suit in that case. Bet that won't happen though.

There is zero chance of Okla St filing a libel suit. To win that suit, they would have to prove that the stuff in SI's article is false. Okla St doesn't want to go there.