I guess that I was wrong about the MAC. Good luck in Conference USA! I think that C-USA will be a better "cultural" (Southern) fit than the MAC (Midwest).

Certainly getting into a league with ODU, Marshall and Charlotte will allow JMU to develop some nice football rivalries as well as opening up the Florida and Texas recruiting grounds. UTSA is already "big time" and should be pretty decent year in and year out........and will make a great road trip.

(09-08-2013 01:56 PM)jmutoml757 Wrote:  According to a former high-level employee of the university with whom I spoke during CCSU pre-game we are going C-USA. His exact words were this about moving up: "it's a day late and ten dollars short." Evidently Uncle Ron had bought into a vision in the early 90's that had us moving up over a ten year period to what eventually became a BCS conference. How much is speculation and known fact concerning our next move- I don't know. But it is frustrating to hear from someone in the know how the whole thing has been mishandled for a long time. One of the big issues now- not JB but King. I actually left the conversation feeling good about Bourne and the job he is and has been doing.

Ron wanted us to get into the Big East, but that was always a long shot.

CUSA will be a nice home with Marshall, UNCC, and ODU. We can't ask for much better in terms of regional mid-level FBS football.

(09-09-2013 08:23 AM)4N6Duke09 Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 07:48 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 07:08 AM)4N6Duke09 Wrote:  So what happens if we don't hear anything on October 5th?

Oct. 5 is a Saturday, so I doubt you're going to "hear" anything on that date.

BOV minutes will be posted online soon after the meeting, but the minutes are always well-washed and somewhat cryptic. In those minutes I expect to read that the BOV has accepted the report, and the report's finding/recommendations will be made public. The BOV minutes may even indicate the BOV's authorization to the President to follow-up on the report (if the Carr report says FBS is doable), as I seriously doubt a Presidential recommendation about the report's findings will accompany the initial submission of the report to the BOV.

The lack of an accompanying Presidential recommendation at the time the Carr report is formally accepted may strike some as a slight-of-hand trick...but a Presidential recommendation made simultaneously with the report's submission would not only be a cart-before-the-horse faux pas, it could ignite a firestorm of controversy on campus. The controversy being that the faculty were not properly consulted prior to the decision being made to jump to FBS football, and how this will impact JMU's academic mission.

So, bottom line, reading between the lines...if the Carr report says "stay FCS"...end of story. If it gives a green light to moving up, don't expect an immediate rubber stamping of that recommendation by either the BOV or the President. There is still some political fence building to do on campus.

I forgot to check the calendar, but thanks for the info on how this could all shake out. If the Carr report says "stay FCS" will we hear about that within a short time frame? So essentially, if we hear nothing then that's like a no news is good news situation?

Yes, that's how I read it.

(09-09-2013 09:37 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 08:23 AM)4N6Duke09 Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 07:48 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 07:08 AM)4N6Duke09 Wrote:  So what happens if we don't hear anything on October 5th?

Oct. 5 is a Saturday, so I doubt you're going to "hear" anything on that date.

BOV minutes will be posted online soon after the meeting, but the minutes are always well-washed and somewhat cryptic. In those minutes I expect to read that the BOV has accepted the report, and the report's finding/recommendations will be made public. The BOV minutes may even indicate the BOV's authorization to the President to follow-up on the report (if the Carr report says FBS is doable), as I seriously doubt a Presidential recommendation about the report's findings will accompany the initial submission of the report to the BOV.

The lack of an accompanying Presidential recommendation at the time the Carr report is formally accepted may strike some as a slight-of-hand trick...but a Presidential recommendation made simultaneously with the report's submission would not only be a cart-before-the-horse faux pas, it could ignite a firestorm of controversy on campus. The controversy being that the faculty were not properly consulted prior to the decision being made to jump to FBS football, and how this will impact JMU's academic mission.

So, bottom line, reading between the lines...if the Carr report says "stay FCS"...end of story. If it gives a green light to moving up, don't expect an immediate rubber stamping of that recommendation by either the BOV or the President. There is still some political fence building to do on campus.

I forgot to check the calendar, but thanks for the info on how this could all shake out. If the Carr report says "stay FCS" will we hear about that within a short time frame? So essentially, if we hear nothing then that's like a no news is good news situation?

Yes, that's how I read it.

So we either get to stop waiting, or we get to wait some more? Woohoo!

(09-09-2013 09:41 AM)JMU2004 Wrote:  So we either get to stop waiting, or we get to wait some more? Woohoo!

You can read the report while you wait.

How angey will fans be if the report comes out in favor for FCS?

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(09-09-2013 09:48 AM)hburg Wrote:  How angey will fans be if the report comes out in favor for FCS?

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Some will be angry, others disappointed I'm sure. Others will be happy, a majority may not even notice.

Let's jump off that bridge after the report is made public.

(09-09-2013 09:48 AM)hburg Wrote:  How angey will fans be if the report comes out in favor for FCS?

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i'd be absolutely floored if that's what the report says.

look at some of these schools that are FBS now....Georgia State had 5,100 at their game Saturday.

how can a "study" deem us to be unready for FBS when schools such as GSU (even Akron!) are currently playing at that level.

there is simply no way the report would favor FCS. So it's a matter of JMU making the decision to move up or not.

(09-09-2013 10:13 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 09:48 AM)hburg Wrote:  How angey will fans be if the report comes out in favor for FCS?

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i'd be absolutely floored if that's what the report says.

look at some of these schools that are FBS now....Georgia State had 5,100 at their game Saturday.

how can a "study" deem us to be unready for FBS when schools such as GSU (even Akron!) are currently playing at that level.

there is simply no way the report would favor FCS. So it's a matter of JMU making the decision to move up or not.

I agree. But honestly, I've stopped being shocked when it comes to administrative issues at JMU. I think I would probably just laugh, throw my hands in the air in an incredulous fashion, and start planning for my move from Godwin to Convo for tailgates.

(09-09-2013 10:13 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  i'd be absolutely floored if that's what the report says.

look at some of these schools that are FBS now....Georgia State had 5,100 at their game Saturday.

how can a "study" deem us to be unready for FBS when schools such as GSU (even Akron!) are currently playing at that level.

there is simply no way the report would favor FCS. So it's a matter of JMU making the decision to move up or not.

Absolutely. The report will not recommend that JMU stay FCS.

My prediction:

The report will state that JMU is well positioned to go FBS but must overcome the following challenges: 1. $$$ 2. $$ 3. etc.

The administration [at a later date, after the faculty and other interested parties have had a chance to look at the report and give input,etc.] will recommend that JMU pursue an FBS affiliation.

The BOV will direct the administration to pursue an FBS affiliation.

At some future date, JMU will announce a new conference affiliation.

I have no idea of the actual time frame. It's certainly possible that much of the groundwork has already been laid.

(09-09-2013 10:13 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 09:48 AM)hburg Wrote:  How angey will fans be if the report comes out in favor for FCS?

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i'd be absolutely floored if that's what the report says.

look at some of these schools that are FBS now....Georgia State had 5,100 at their game Saturday.

how can a "study" deem us to be unready for FBS when schools such as GSU (even Akron!) are currently playing at that level.

there is simply no way the report would favor FCS. So it's a matter of JMU making the decision to move up or not.

The question of whether we're "ready" isn't just an apples-to-apples comparison of game attendance or even athletic department funding, though. If you assume that a move to FBS would make athletics cost more than it does now, and you further assume that paying for the increase can't come entirely from raising student fees (which I do), then it has to come from some combination of income from a new FBS conference, increased fundraising, and higher event pricing. Are we ready for that? What I mean is, many here say they're confident we'll get more of some combination of $x from rights deals as an FBS school, $x from game payouts, $x from fundraising, higher tickets, etc. But how many of us have it in our job description, or in our duties as someone in a position of trust to the university, to make decisions based on those variables that will affect the school for years? If those individuals do make a 'stay FCS' recommendation I won't put it down to cowardice or animus against higher-level football. I'll be disappointed but I hope I'll recognize they saw something about JMU's potential in this area that made them think the safer decision was the more prudent one.

(09-09-2013 10:42 AM)QuinDuke Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 10:13 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 09:48 AM)hburg Wrote:  How angey will fans be if the report comes out in favor for FCS?

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i'd be absolutely floored if that's what the report says.

look at some of these schools that are FBS now....Georgia State had 5,100 at their game Saturday.

how can a "study" deem us to be unready for FBS when schools such as GSU (even Akron!) are currently playing at that level.

there is simply no way the report would favor FCS. So it's a matter of JMU making the decision to move up or not.

The question of whether we're "ready" isn't just an apples-to-apples comparison of game attendance or even athletic department funding, though. If you assume that a move to FBS would make athletics cost more than it does now, and you further assume that paying for the increase can't come entirely from raising student fees (which I do), then it has to come from some combination of income from a new FBS conference, increased fundraising, and higher event pricing. Are we ready for that? What I mean is, many here say they're confident we'll get more of some combination of $x from rights deals as an FBS school, $x from game payouts, $x from fundraising, higher tickets, etc. But how many of us have it in our job description, or in our duties as someone in a position of trust to the university, to make decisions based on those variables that will affect the school for years? If those individuals do make a 'stay FCS' recommendation I won't put it down to cowardice or animus against higher-level football. I'll be disappointed but I hope I'll recognize they saw something about JMU's potential in this area that made them think the safer decision was the more prudent one.

Good post. It's a lot easier to say full speed ahead when it's someone else's money and someone else's job. I also agree that jacking up student fees ain't gonna happen this time. I think the JMU administration will recommend that the challenges of going to FBS can be overcome, but it's not a sure thing. That's where the Carr report, if it's any good, will help JMU make a realistic decision based on good data.

I just want a decision to be made and everything to be finalized. If JMu decideds to remain in the FCS for the intermediate future, I'm fine with that. I love football and I totally anticipate the Dukes to remain competitive at the FCS. However, I will always look at the stadium and the size of the school and how much people enjoy going to the games and rooting for the Dukes and be a little upset at what could've been (which is a legitmate football school).

(09-08-2013 01:56 PM)jmutoml757 Wrote:  According to a former high-level employee of the university with whom I spoke during CCSU pre-game we are going C-USA. His exact words were this about moving up: "it's a day late and ten dollars short." Evidently Uncle Ron had bought into a vision in the early 90's that had us moving up over a ten year period to what eventually became a BCS conference. How much is speculation and known fact concerning our next move- I don't know. But it is frustrating to hear from someone in the know how the whole thing has been mishandled for a long time. One of the big issues now- not JB but King. I actually left the conversation feeling good about Bourne and the job he is and has been doing.

Just curious how a former high level employee knows non-public information and and why they are sharing it with people outside the univ admin?

(09-09-2013 11:51 AM)JMUAlumni2000 Wrote:  

(09-08-2013 01:56 PM)jmutoml757 Wrote:  According to a former high-level employee of the university with whom I spoke during CCSU pre-game we are going C-USA. His exact words were this about moving up: "it's a day late and ten dollars short." Evidently Uncle Ron had bought into a vision in the early 90's that had us moving up over a ten year period to what eventually became a BCS conference. How much is speculation and known fact concerning our next move- I don't know. But it is frustrating to hear from someone in the know how the whole thing has been mishandled for a long time. One of the big issues now- not JB but King. I actually left the conversation feeling good about Bourne and the job he is and has been doing.

Just curious how a former high level employee knows non-public information and and why they are sharing it with people outside the univ admin?

because people talk.

(09-09-2013 11:14 AM)POTUS#4 Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 10:42 AM)QuinDuke Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 10:13 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 09:48 AM)hburg Wrote:  How angey will fans be if the report comes out in favor for FCS?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

i'd be absolutely floored if that's what the report says.

look at some of these schools that are FBS now....Georgia State had 5,100 at their game Saturday.

how can a "study" deem us to be unready for FBS when schools such as GSU (even Akron!) are currently playing at that level.

there is simply no way the report would favor FCS. So it's a matter of JMU making the decision to move up or not.

The question of whether we're "ready" isn't just an apples-to-apples comparison of game attendance or even athletic department funding, though. If you assume that a move to FBS would make athletics cost more than it does now, and you further assume that paying for the increase can't come entirely from raising student fees (which I do), then it has to come from some combination of income from a new FBS conference, increased fundraising, and higher event pricing. Are we ready for that? What I mean is, many here say they're confident we'll get more of some combination of $x from rights deals as an FBS school, $x from game payouts, $x from fundraising, higher tickets, etc. But how many of us have it in our job description, or in our duties as someone in a position of trust to the university, to make decisions based on those variables that will affect the school for years? If those individuals do make a 'stay FCS' recommendation I won't put it down to cowardice or animus against higher-level football. I'll be disappointed but I hope I'll recognize they saw something about JMU's potential in this area that made them think the safer decision was the more prudent one.

Good post. It's a lot easier to say full speed ahead when it's someone else's money and someone else's job. I also agree that jacking up student fees ain't gonna happen this time. I think the JMU administration will recommend that the challenges of going to FBS can be overcome, but it's not a sure thing. That's where the Carr report, if it's any good, will help JMU make a realistic decision based on good data.

At the end of the day, it's not my place to spend other people's money, but if JMU decided to not move up because of increased costs, I would view it as a big missed opportunity AND would want to know why fielding an FCS team is so much more expensive for JMU than all others. If the decision is to stay FCS then let's tighten up our spending and reduce student fees because I don't feel JMU is getting their moneys worth.

(09-09-2013 11:51 AM)JMUAlumni2000 Wrote:  

(09-08-2013 01:56 PM)jmutoml757 Wrote:  According to a former high-level employee of the university with whom I spoke during CCSU pre-game we are going C-USA. His exact words were this about moving up: "it's a day late and ten dollars short." Evidently Uncle Ron had bought into a vision in the early 90's that had us moving up over a ten year period to what eventually became a BCS conference. How much is speculation and known fact concerning our next move- I don't know. But it is frustrating to hear from someone in the know how the whole thing has been mishandled for a long time. One of the big issues now- not JB but King. I actually left the conversation feeling good about Bourne and the job he is and has been doing.

Just curious how a former high level employee knows non-public information and and why they are sharing it with people outside the univ admin?

I assume this person still talks with those inside and has some knowledge of what is going on. What he told me was not "official" from the admin but his thoughts on what was going to happen. the main point this person made to me was that JB is not and has not been the problem or hold up to this point. I have always thought our AD was the reason there seems to be a lack of vision in regard to JMU athletics. This person made me see otherwise based on past experience and knowledge of the management/communication structure of the university. The point about Uncle Ron was to reiterate that a vision of JMU moving up has been around a long time and at the highest level, not that it has any sway now. Plus, it shows how we may have missed the boat in some regard..

Do people still blame Bourne for anything conference related? King is/has been the biggest stick in the mud ever. Rose definitely wasn't good, but King is worse. Alger's biggest failing thus far is leaving our AD as a direct report to the CFO this long.

(09-09-2013 02:32 PM)jmufan2008 Wrote:  Do people still blame Bourne for anything conference related? King is/has been the biggest stick in the mud ever. Rose definitely wasn't good, but King is worse. Alger's biggest failing thus far is leaving our AD as a direct report to the CFO this long.

Charlie has his strengths. He does more with less....

That being said, I wish he would get out of the way of Athletics.

(09-09-2013 02:35 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 02:32 PM)jmufan2008 Wrote:  Do people still blame Bourne for anything conference related? King is/has been the biggest stick in the mud ever. Rose definitely wasn't good, but King is worse. Alger's biggest failing thus far is leaving our AD as a direct report to the CFO this long.

Charlie has his strengths. He does more with less....

That being said, I wish he would get out of the way of Athletics.

Not saying fire King, just move athletics out from under him. He does a good job with the rest of the budget. He should surely help advise on any move to a different conference, but he shouldn't be behind the wheel.