(09-02-2013 08:16 PM)FlashFan Wrote:  It must be a difficult world for Toledo fans right now. The contemporary POV is that you'll be fighting for second place in the West, and that's far from a sure thing.

It must be a difficult world for Flash fans right now. They have one relevant college football season since 1930 and all of a sudden realize that some people understand the sport enough to be able to analyze the actual play beyond the result of W or L. I know you guys used to be able to analyze basketball games beyond a W or L and maybe in the future with a little more success and interest you'll understand football enough to be able to do the same.

(09-02-2013 08:16 PM)FlashFan Wrote:  You think the Flashes will be 6-6 with a new QB, new O line, new secondary, new coach and our schedule?

That sure does sound like an excuse and as they say: excuses are like azzholes, everyone has one.

(09-02-2013 08:16 PM)FlashFan Wrote:  The reality is that I hope Toledo upsets Missou. It's good for the Rockets and good for the MAC. Just come home with a real victory to post about, O.K.?

I doubt that is true and that is ok. I hope the Flashes lose the rest of their games as it is better for the MAC. Kent State needs to return to its rightful place at the bottom of the MAC and that allows the notable football programs in the East such as Ohio, Miami, and Bowling Green to sit atop the standings there where we need them. Just don't come back here with excuses to post about, O.K.?

Ucf will win CUSA this year. They're good.

My hopes for a competitive game against Michigan evaporated when our starting QB (Kater) and RB (Tipton) left in the first quarter with a broken collarbone and ankle, respectively. In addition, Hoke had them riled up to play us and threw a lot of blitzes our way, not to mention some wrinkles on offense (reverse, for instance, and designed runs with Gardiner). We just ran into a buzzsaw, plain and simple, and the early, critical injuries just made things worse.

Perspective: we had some similar bad losses under Butch Jones but rebounded to have a good overall season (70-14 at Clemson comes to mind). Also, our starting kicker was perfect, our secondary had three picks, two in the first half, and our pass rush would have resultd in several sacks against a less mobile QB. Niznak, our #2 QB showed enough to give me hope for the rest of the season. More, the team sounds eager to put Saturday in the rearview mirror and take out some frustration on UNH.

(09-03-2013 01:14 AM)Campbell4President Wrote:  

(09-02-2013 08:16 PM)FlashFan Wrote:  It must be a difficult world for Toledo fans right now. The contemporary POV is that you'll be fighting for second place in the West, and that's far from a sure thing.

It must be a difficult world for Flash fans right now. They have one relevant college football season since 1930 and all of a sudden realize that some people understand the sport enough to be able to analyze the actual play beyond the result of W or L. I know you guys used to be able to analyze basketball games beyond a W or L and maybe in the future with a little more success and interest you'll understand football enough to be able to do the same.

(09-02-2013 08:16 PM)FlashFan Wrote:  You think the Flashes will be 6-6 with a new QB, new O line, new secondary, new coach and our schedule?

That sure does sound like an excuse and as they say: excuses are like azzholes, everyone has one.

(09-02-2013 08:16 PM)FlashFan Wrote:  The reality is that I hope Toledo upsets Missou. It's good for the Rockets and good for the MAC. Just come home with a real victory to post about, O.K.?

I doubt that is true and that is ok. I hope the Flashes lose the rest of their games as it is better for the MAC. Kent State needs to return to its rightful place at the bottom of the MAC and that allows the notable football programs in the East such as Ohio, Miami, and Bowling Green to sit atop the standings there where we need them. Just don't come back here with excuses to post about, O.K.?

Wow. I thought it was a rough transition for some Rockets fans, but an attack for stating the obvious. Do you think you are the best team in the West? Are you sure that you have second locked up? Your attack shows me that you're a little worried.

I hope the MAC does well in OOC, so I hope Toledo does well. Just don't cherry pick stats out of a game with 20 minutes of possession, 2 FG's and gave up over 400 yards of offense against a team without 5 starters playing a week before a big rivalry to shine sh*t about how well you played because you lost by 18 instead of the line of 23. Then tell ME that I don't know much about football. BG played a better game against the Gators just last year.

I haven't posted excuses about KSU football in 10 years, so don't intend to start now. We are on the right long term path regardless of what happens this year. If we take a step back this year, we've seen the bottom before so we can handle it. You - I'm not so sure. But, best of luck to the Rockets this year.

(09-03-2013 07:10 AM)FlashFan Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 01:14 AM)Campbell4President Wrote:  

(09-02-2013 08:16 PM)FlashFan Wrote:  It must be a difficult world for Toledo fans right now. The contemporary POV is that you'll be fighting for second place in the West, and that's far from a sure thing.

It must be a difficult world for Flash fans right now. They have one relevant college football season since 1930 and all of a sudden realize that some people understand the sport enough to be able to analyze the actual play beyond the result of W or L. I know you guys used to be able to analyze basketball games beyond a W or L and maybe in the future with a little more success and interest you'll understand football enough to be able to do the same.

(09-02-2013 08:16 PM)FlashFan Wrote:  You think the Flashes will be 6-6 with a new QB, new O line, new secondary, new coach and our schedule?

That sure does sound like an excuse and as they say: excuses are like azzholes, everyone has one.

(09-02-2013 08:16 PM)FlashFan Wrote:  The reality is that I hope Toledo upsets Missou. It's good for the Rockets and good for the MAC. Just come home with a real victory to post about, O.K.?

I doubt that is true and that is ok. I hope the Flashes lose the rest of their games as it is better for the MAC. Kent State needs to return to its rightful place at the bottom of the MAC and that allows the notable football programs in the East such as Ohio, Miami, and Bowling Green to sit atop the standings there where we need them. Just don't come back here with excuses to post about, O.K.?

Wow. I thought it was a rough transition for some Rockets fans, but an attack for stating the obvious. Do you think you are the best team in the West? Are you sure that you have second locked up? Your attack shows me that you're a little worried.

I hope the MAC does well in OOC, so I hope Toledo does well. Just don't cherry pick stats out of a game with 20 minutes of possession, 2 FG's and gave up over 400 yards of offense against a team without 5 starters playing a week before a big rivalry to shine sh*t about how well you played because you lost by 18 instead of the line of 23. Then tell ME that I don't know much about football. BG played a better game against the Gators just last year.

You don't get it. Toledo was projected to give up more points, more yards, and get beat by more points. That's why it was O.K. Not bad and not good. We weren't playing an average opponent. EMU had 500+ yards vs. Toledo last year and 49 points. IDK why it's so hard for you to understand Toledo's D although didn't play perfect, played better than THE ENTIRE MAC thought we would. Did you think Toledo was going to win 10-7? OR are you frustrated with Toledo's offensive production? Because I am too, but just because the offense struggled (vs. a good defense) doesn't mean the effort or outcome was downright BAD.

I'm not saying anything about the B.G game last year. They played Good to O.K in that game also! NO ONE SAID WE PLAYED BETTER THAN BG in comparable games. That game last season wasn't a benchmark for this week's first game? Who said it was?

(09-03-2013 11:22 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 07:10 AM)FlashFan Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 01:14 AM)Campbell4President Wrote:  

(09-02-2013 08:16 PM)FlashFan Wrote:  It must be a difficult world for Toledo fans right now. The contemporary POV is that you'll be fighting for second place in the West, and that's far from a sure thing.

It must be a difficult world for Flash fans right now. They have one relevant college football season since 1930 and all of a sudden realize that some people understand the sport enough to be able to analyze the actual play beyond the result of W or L. I know you guys used to be able to analyze basketball games beyond a W or L and maybe in the future with a little more success and interest you'll understand football enough to be able to do the same.

(09-02-2013 08:16 PM)FlashFan Wrote:  You think the Flashes will be 6-6 with a new QB, new O line, new secondary, new coach and our schedule?

That sure does sound like an excuse and as they say: excuses are like azzholes, everyone has one.

(09-02-2013 08:16 PM)FlashFan Wrote:  The reality is that I hope Toledo upsets Missou. It's good for the Rockets and good for the MAC. Just come home with a real victory to post about, O.K.?

I doubt that is true and that is ok. I hope the Flashes lose the rest of their games as it is better for the MAC. Kent State needs to return to its rightful place at the bottom of the MAC and that allows the notable football programs in the East such as Ohio, Miami, and Bowling Green to sit atop the standings there where we need them. Just don't come back here with excuses to post about, O.K.?

Wow. I thought it was a rough transition for some Rockets fans, but an attack for stating the obvious. Do you think you are the best team in the West? Are you sure that you have second locked up? Your attack shows me that you're a little worried.

I hope the MAC does well in OOC, so I hope Toledo does well. Just don't cherry pick stats out of a game with 20 minutes of possession, 2 FG's and gave up over 400 yards of offense against a team without 5 starters playing a week before a big rivalry to shine sh*t about how well you played because you lost by 18 instead of the line of 23. Then tell ME that I don't know much about football. BG played a better game against the Gators just last year.

You don't get it. Toledo was projected to give up more points, more yards, and get beat by more points. That's why it was O.K. Not bad and not good. We weren't playing an average opponent. EMU had 500+ yards vs. Toledo last year and 49 points. IDK why it's so hard for you to understand Toledo's D although didn't play perfect, played better than THE ENTIRE MAC thought we would. Did you think Toledo was going to win 10-7? OR are you frustrated with Toledo's offensive production? Because I am too, but just because the offense struggled (vs. a good defense) doesn't mean the effort or outcome was downright BAD.

I'm not saying anything about the B.G game last year. They played Good to O.K in that game also! NO ONE SAID WE PLAYED BETTER THAN BG in comparable games. That game last season wasn't a benchmark for this week's first game? Who said it was?

You've made your points clear. I understand, just don't agree.
My perception of a double standard frequently found on this board is at the heart of my objection. Teams are treated differently based upon what people "thought" would-a, should a, could-a happened then stats are cherry picked to support this confabulation.

I can even give you that Toledo did "O.K.", except my "O.K. would be more like a C-. Yes, it was a Top Ten team in the SEC, the defense had to play 40 minutes and only gave up 3 TD's, etc. But, this is counterbalanced by the facts that Florida played without 5 starters, the back that put 112 yards on Toledo was a 3rd stringer making his first start, and Florida renews its rivalry with Miami this Saturday. Mushcamp wasn't going to show more than he had to; coaches think this way. And, by the way, I doubt that the Flashes would have done any better against Florida and probably much worse. So this is not a "we would have been better than OK" debate.

Here's why I perceive a double standard. Toledo's "O.K." 3 TD loss is better than EMU's and KSU's wins only because of what people "thought would happen" What? Losing by 3 TD's instead of 4 is redemption while winning a game is a disappointment? The victories get picked apart and trashed while the losses get glossed over as "O.K?" When Toledo escaped Coastal Carolina last year after giving up 28 points and winning by 10, I don't remember any of this victory bashing bashed on what people "thought" was going to happen.

It's my perception that some teams are favorite whipping posts while others get a pass regardless of outcome, or even when the whipping posts get a better outcome. Not the first season it happened, just the first time I called it.

Off my chest now. Carry on.

(09-02-2013 11:09 PM)OhioBobcatJohn Wrote:  Ohio plays two CUSA schools the next two weeks at home. They win both those games and everybody will climb off the ledge and realize Louisville has the best QB in the country and several NFL caliber wideouts. Ohio had no choice but to play zone and Bridgewater picked them apart. Bobcats are being very careful with injuries to star players they.

Ok, today they are awesome because they destroyed Ohio, but prior to the game the Ohio hype machine claimed they were better at QB, RB, coach and everywhere in between. Also, nice to know Ohio sandbagged due to wanting to keep star players healthy, had they not they had a chance to win that one.

(09-04-2013 05:55 AM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

(09-02-2013 11:09 PM)OhioBobcatJohn Wrote:  Ohio plays two CUSA schools the next two weeks at home. They win both those games and everybody will climb off the ledge and realize Louisville has the best QB in the country and several NFL caliber wideouts. Ohio had no choice but to play zone and Bridgewater picked them apart. Bobcats are being very careful with injuries to star players they.

Ok, today they are awesome because they destroyed Ohio, but prior to the game the Ohio hype machine claimed they were better at QB, RB, coach and everywhere in between. Also, nice to know Ohio sandbagged due to wanting to keep star players healthy, had they not they had a chance to win that one.

We were also told how Ohio was the best team on L-ville's schedule so they should be a lock to go 12-0.

So what we have gained from this thread is that everyone thinks their school did better than people from other schools think they did. Except for Bowling Green-we all seem to agree that Bowling Green did well.

(09-04-2013 07:06 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  So what we have gained from this thread is that everyone thinks their school did better than people from other schools think they did. Except for Bowling Green-we all seem to agree that Bowling Green did well.

Add NIU to the "did well" list.

I think my school underperformed in the first half. I can't say I expected a 23 point victory but I would label the win as satisfactory.

(09-03-2013 11:22 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 07:10 AM)FlashFan Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 01:14 AM)Campbell4President Wrote:  

(09-02-2013 08:16 PM)FlashFan Wrote:  It must be a difficult world for Toledo fans right now. The contemporary POV is that you'll be fighting for second place in the West, and that's far from a sure thing.

It must be a difficult world for Flash fans right now. They have one relevant college football season since 1930 and all of a sudden realize that some people understand the sport enough to be able to analyze the actual play beyond the result of W or L. I know you guys used to be able to analyze basketball games beyond a W or L and maybe in the future with a little more success and interest you'll understand football enough to be able to do the same.

(09-02-2013 08:16 PM)FlashFan Wrote:  You think the Flashes will be 6-6 with a new QB, new O line, new secondary, new coach and our schedule?

That sure does sound like an excuse and as they say: excuses are like azzholes, everyone has one.

(09-02-2013 08:16 PM)FlashFan Wrote:  The reality is that I hope Toledo upsets Missou. It's good for the Rockets and good for the MAC. Just come home with a real victory to post about, O.K.?

I doubt that is true and that is ok. I hope the Flashes lose the rest of their games as it is better for the MAC. Kent State needs to return to its rightful place at the bottom of the MAC and that allows the notable football programs in the East such as Ohio, Miami, and Bowling Green to sit atop the standings there where we need them. Just don't come back here with excuses to post about, O.K.?

Wow. I thought it was a rough transition for some Rockets fans, but an attack for stating the obvious. Do you think you are the best team in the West? Are you sure that you have second locked up? Your attack shows me that you're a little worried.

I hope the MAC does well in OOC, so I hope Toledo does well. Just don't cherry pick stats out of a game with 20 minutes of possession, 2 FG's and gave up over 400 yards of offense against a team without 5 starters playing a week before a big rivalry to shine sh*t about how well you played because you lost by 18 instead of the line of 23. Then tell ME that I don't know much about football. BG played a better game against the Gators just last year.

You don't get it. Toledo was projected to give up more points, more yards, and get beat by more points. That's why it was O.K. Not bad and not good. We weren't playing an average opponent. EMU had 500+ yards vs. Toledo last year and 49 points. IDK why it's so hard for you to understand Toledo's D although didn't play perfect, played better than THE ENTIRE MAC thought we would. Did you think Toledo was going to win 10-7? OR are you frustrated with Toledo's offensive production? Because I am too, but just because the offense struggled (vs. a good defense) doesn't mean the effort or outcome was downright BAD.

I'm not saying anything about the B.G game last year. They played Good to O.K in that game also! NO ONE SAID WE PLAYED BETTER THAN BG in comparable games. That game last season wasn't a benchmark for this week's first game? Who said it was?

Adorable. I remember the days of moral victories. One day you guys will grow up to be an adult program.

I never said moral victory, nor did I once say we had a better performance than EMU or Kent? Pono did the original ranking we all posted off of. He said Kent was in the BAD. You seem bitter about that, and nothing about what I have posted.

You can't begin to make any assumptions on the season from the Toledo vs. Florida game unless all teams played top 25 caliber teams also. That's a fact... there really cant be much said about MAC teams after week one, unless the MAC opponent was of similar quality, or a statement was made vs. a really good or really poor team. Neither was true about UT vs. UF.

To me, the jury is still out and the first five weeks Toledo has to prove themselves.

(09-04-2013 06:29 AM)Frozenbaugh Wrote:  

(09-04-2013 05:55 AM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

(09-02-2013 11:09 PM)OhioBobcatJohn Wrote:  Ohio plays two CUSA schools the next two weeks at home. They win both those games and everybody will climb off the ledge and realize Louisville has the best QB in the country and several NFL caliber wideouts. Ohio had no choice but to play zone and Bridgewater picked them apart. Bobcats are being very careful with injuries to star players they.

Ok, today they are awesome because they destroyed Ohio, but prior to the game the Ohio hype machine claimed they were better at QB, RB, coach and everywhere in between. Also, nice to know Ohio sandbagged due to wanting to keep star players healthy, had they not they had a chance to win that one.

We were also told how Ohio was the best team on L-ville's schedule so they should be a lock to go 12-0.

Well, that was then and this is now so what can we say about it at this point?

(09-04-2013 08:23 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  I never said moral victory, nor did I once say we had a better performance than EMU or Kent? Pono did the original ranking we all posted off of. He said Kent was in the BAD. You seem bitter about that, and nothing about what I have posted.

You can't begin to make any assumptions on the season from the Toledo vs. Florida game unless all teams played top 25 caliber teams also. That's a fact... there really cant be much said about MAC teams after week one, unless the MAC opponent was of similar quality, or a statement was made vs. a really good or really poor team. Neither was true about UT vs. UF.

To me, the jury is still out and the first five weeks Toledo has to prove themselves.

Agree.

Its one thing to lose by 20 points to a ranked team when you're a program like UMass or EMU with a poor track record but a new coaching staff which points to a better future.

Programs like Toledo and NIU for them to lose any game by 20 points from the vantage point that their program sits is a disappointment, IMO.

(09-02-2013 02:45 PM)owen Wrote:  

(09-01-2013 05:24 PM)mufanatehc Wrote:  BG is now the east favorite in my mind

Always were in my mind.

At least one on-line sportsbook I saw had BG as favored to win the MACC, not just the East

BG has a large question mark at QB. Until that is resolved it will be hard to say they are the clear favorite. They remind me of Temple.

so much hostility

I watched about half of the Kent-Liberty game and Liberty looked like the better team until the last ten minutes. The key for Kent is their oline and I don't think the unit looked that rebuilt. That said, it was a fairly tense and entertaining game. Us Toledo fans are disappointed that the team couldn't make more plays on offense and the game was not as close as it might have been. We are also proud of the fact the team was very physical and didn't get worn down like most mac teams do when playing a top ten opponent. Buffalo can say the same thing, btw.

obviously, we all color our perceptions by our affiliations. however, tough to argue that rallying past a mediocre FBS team is a satisfactory result, unless you are eastern.

Say what you will, KSU didn't breeze like some expected but to claim Liberty looked like the better team is just ridiculous. KSU shut down Liberty's run game to 33 yards total and the passing game was in check except for a couple obvious blown coverages. Out gaining them 361-222, 20-11 first downs and controlling the ball 38:50 to 21:10 certainly doesn't seem like they slept until 10 minutes remained. Untimely penalties had a lot to do with it, 9 for 79 yards and I believe all might have been in the 1st half while Liberty's 4 for 30 didn't come until the end.

Kent State marched right down field and mixed it up well, losing Archer in the process. They scored and the defense came right out and dominated right off the bat. With Archer hurt they just never got it going and went through the motions. Their youth showd with all of the penalties and lack of chemistry. Rallying past a decent FCS team is what is, beats the alternative. Would I rather they get slaughtered by a BCS big dog and gain nothing out of the contest other than a few $$$s for the Athletic Department? They took more out of this win regardless of the final point differential.

(09-03-2013 07:10 AM)FlashFan Wrote:  Wow. I thought it was a rough transition for some Rockets fans, but an attack for stating the obvious. Do you think you are the best team in the West? Are you sure that you have second locked up? Your attack shows me that you're a little worried.

My "attack" is just a snarky response to your snarky statements. Please tell me where any Rocket fan has discussed being first or second in the West this year based off this thread. You seem to keep bringing it up but I haven't seen an actual Rocket fan bring it up. Since you are very concerned with it to the point that you are obviously going to be bringing this topic [not related to the thread] back up until you get an answer, please point out to me where any Rocket fan brought it up before you and I'll consider giving you an answer. As for the rough transition, did the Rockets finish first in the West last year? Did they beat NIU? Did they beat Ball State? Since you are alluding to a transition in a downward direction, shouldn't you be talking about a possible fourth or fifth place finish in the West? (if you just absolutely have to interject an irrelevant subject into the thread that is)

(09-03-2013 07:10 AM)FlashFan Wrote:  I hope the MAC does well in OOC, so I hope Toledo does well. Just don't cherry pick stats out of a game with 20 minutes of possession, 2 FG's and gave up over 400 yards of offense against a team without 5 starters playing a week before a big rivalry to shine sh*t about how well you played because you lost by 18 instead of the line of 23. Then tell ME that I don't know much about football. BG played a better game against the Gators just last year.

Please provide me with a list of the stats I cherry picked. There maaaaay be a slight chance that all I posted about is a 24-6 loss but an intelligent guy like yourself should be able to come up with a list for me.

(09-03-2013 07:10 AM)FlashFan Wrote:  I haven't posted excuses about KSU football in 10 years, so don't intend to start now. We are on the right long term path regardless of what happens this year. If we take a step back this year, we've seen the bottom before so we can handle it. You - I'm not so sure. But, best of luck to the Rockets this year.

You say: You think the Flashes will be 6-6 with a new QB, new O line, new secondary, new coach and our schedule?

I see: You think the Flashes will be 6-6 with one excuse, two excuses, three excuses, four excuses and five excuses?

We have only completed week 1 and have 11 to go. So since this thread was about a "performance" of week 1 and you want to extrapolate it out to a projection for a season's finish, it is too early for that. But the good news for you is that there are 11 weeks to go and we can always review this thread for answers to your questions at the end.

I know you don't have the ability to take anything away from games except for the W or L in the column and that is cool with me. I understand some fan bases have different expectations of their programs for obvious reasons. All that I can do is state mine in which case as a Rocket fan, I would expect my expectations to be different from a Kent, Idaho, or Florida International fan. The only thing that I can tell you is that I was extremely much more upset with a narrow win over Coastal Carolina last year than I was a loss to Florida this year (but of course, I watched both games and saw the actual physical play and efforts in both). After the Coastal Carolina game, my thoughts and postings were basically "how in the hell can the Rockets struggle to barely beat a crappy FCS team." In all of my years as a Toledo fan, the Florida game is the first loss that I can honestly say that I'm ok with considering what I saw in the game and know of Florida. Let's be honest, Florida's third string would still beat Kent's first string.

And since I know that you are a very intelligent person that has been able to come up with thoughts on his own about Florida being happy to walk away with a win rather than embarrass us, I will provide you with a post of mine from Aug 31 at 4:31 in response to a Gator fan on our board. It's crazy how I stated many of the things that you did except before you did and with much less of an attitude. Maybe there's a slight chance you didn't tell me anything I didn't already consider? But continue on with your being a d!ck show and see how much off topic of "MAC Week 1 Performances" you can go.

Quote:You are right. We can't be unhappy with the loss. I'm actually content that the Rockets only lost with a score of 24-6. I also feel like if the Gators wanted to drop the hammer, they could have but got the impression that they were interested in walking away with the win and with as few injuries as possible and also not showing anything extra they didn't need to show.

Although I guarantee the Rockets won't see another defense that good the rest of the season, I'm still disappointed in the offense due to the mistakes that they created on their own such as poor passing and to a lesser extent...poor attempts at catching a ball. At the beginning of the game, the defensive line was getting destroyed by the Gator OL but they soon buckled down and I can say that I'm very happy with the play of the defense as a whole. There will be missed tackles in every game so I'm not too concerned with the few we saw today...I think they were mentally and physically beat in those last 10 minutes of the game.

I will say this...people don't seem to dislike us in the south like they do the north. If we had that officiating crew for the Ohio State and Syracuse games, the Rockets would have walked away with wins in each. As someone else stated earlier, it seems the officials were about the only thing that the Rockets had going for them today.

Although I'm already not upset with the loss, here's hoping the Gators can make it to the NC...that would definitely make me feel totally ok with this loss.