I've seen them spell things out using the seats on the west side second deck.
How did they do that?
I thought it was the seats being up or down.

(09-01-2013 06:54 PM)Grungy Wrote:  I've seen them spell things out using the seats on the west side second deck.
How did they do that?
I thought it was the seats being up or down.

Sorry, forgot that upper deck has a portion of seatbacks as well. Good point. I'm not sure what percentage, but I don't believe it is all of them. The lower deck is as I stated before.

(09-01-2013 12:53 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  No, no, no -- terrible idea! "Actual" seats are not an upgrade at all! Bench seats are much better in all respects:
- Better for moving around and mingling with different groups of your friends.
- Better for kicking back and/or spreading out when the section is not full (a situation we frequently have at HRS).
- Better for packing in an extra person when the section is full (a situation we hope to have).
- Better for stepping up or down one row if you need to go to the aisle and one of the other rows has fewer people than your own row.
- Better for kids to stand on during exciting plays so they can see too.
- And because a bench usually has less depth than an "actual" seat, a row with bench seats generally has more standing room (which also means more jumping-up-and-down-and-celebrating room) than a row of "actual" seats -- and standing (plus jumping up and down) is a much more enjoyable way to watch a game than sitting.

Individual seats are like Astroturf: ironclad proof that newness is not the same as progress. Maybe we could have a small section of such seats for softies, but making them standard issue for the stadium as a whole would hurt, not help, the fan experience.

+999. And to get to an even 1000, our athletes can get a workout in running on bench seats... Now that thought brings back memories of lots of time and sore muscles...

(09-01-2013 07:21 PM)mbrindley Wrote:  

(09-01-2013 06:54 PM)Grungy Wrote:  I've seen them spell things out using the seats on the west side second deck.
How did they do that?
I thought it was the seats being up or down.

Sorry, forgot that upper deck has a portion of seatbacks as well. Good point. I'm not sure what percentage, but I don't believe it is all of them. The lower deck is as I stated before.

It's about 2/3s of the west side lower deck between the goal lines; about 1/3 of the west upper deck; about 1/5 of the east lower deck (club seats); about 1/5-1/4 of the east upper deck; about 1/3 of the north endzone lower deck; about 4-5 rows all the way around the stadium (club seats).

(08-31-2013 10:40 PM)RiceDad Wrote:  As much as we complain about HRS, but IMO, by comparison, KF is a total POS. It has about 15K more capacity, but is a massive monster. Walking from our pregame tent halfway around the stadium was like a death march. Then at halftime, trying to get out of the sun and take a leak, was like going into some hot cramped cave. The concourses at HRS are wonderful by comparison. Getting to the upper decks looks like another death march compared to the same seats at Rice. So, even though HRS needs a lot of improvements, such as rest rooms, the rest rooms at KF were way worse. Returning from the game on the bus, I looked at Rice Stadium and thought how much more compact it was and way more manageable it is.

Wow. Death march from the tailgate tent. My impression, exactly, or to quote one of my Army buddies (Florida Gator and infantry officer)...perzackly. I'd argue it was a long march (Chairman Mao and Vice-Chairman Deng Xiaoping, take note) to take a leak. I made it, so it wasn't too long.

HRS, in its manicured decay, is still far superior to upscaled Kyle Field. SEC/ESPN uberhypers, this is empirically verifiable: Kyle Field is a second-rate venue.

So why did I attend the game last Saturday? I did not go to the game to compare venues. The main reason I drove to College Station and went to the game? I wanted to see the Owls play the Aggies (and I had a free ticket!) and check out our 2013 team.

My second reason: I think watching the Aggies play a home game qualifies as a real Texas experience, and has since World War One, if not 1900. And I had never had that experience.

Here goes my shot at making the argument that watching an A&M home game (even sitting in the Ags' wretched stadium) is a superb American college football experience, if not an essential Texas experience.

Last week my Rice grad wife (one of the 3 Owls in the nest) asked me a question that boiled down to "Why were the Aggies so upset in 1973?" My answer (over coffee) was: good question. I'll surmise Earl Rudder, Pont du Hoc and the answer to this question: "What US university had the most graduates and attendees killed and wounded in World War Two?" If Rudder and Pont du Hoc require an explanation please read a D-Day history which addresses Omaha Beach, Army Ranger Assault and Commander 2nd Ranger Battalion (the unit the fictional heroes in "Saving Private Ryan" were supposed to be in, if the only Hollywood history is all you know).

According to a newspaper article I recall reading sometime in the early 1960s (likely source either the Midland Reporter-Telegram or Ft Worth Star-Telegram but I am not certain), the answer to my question regarding casualties is Texas A&M.

Now here is the rest of my answer as to why the Corps went over the top in 1973: Ridiculing the Corps in the Vietnam-era may have had momentary TACTICAL political usefulness to a particular political slant, but it was historically stupid. However, the Corps was not ridiculed by the MOB in the 1973 game. I attended the 1973 game. I witnessed the show. The MOB satire was clean and funny and had more to do with sex than violence and Marvin ZIndler's baton twirling act ("Where has my little dog gone" ridiculed the Aggies' sense of loss after the shutdown of that shack outside La Grange) was the, uh, cherry on the "sex" whipped cream?

The MOB was hilarious. The Aggies were pissed that they lost the game.

These facts noted, I'll take bets that what I described to my wife is the historical prism and immediate political circumstance through which many Ags at HRS in 1973 saw/interpreted/completelyeffinmisunderstood the MOB's half-time show.

On Saturday, in the crappy end zone seat a long march from a leak, I got a glimpse of what makes A&M remarkable. All of these young people born circa 1993/1994 swaying back and forth while singing The War Hymn which is an adaptation of "Go tell Aunt Rhodie (Rhody)"??!! According to one source I googled (an Idaho site of all places): : "It was invented, the legend goes, by Pinky Wilson (A&M Class of 1920), who was on guard duty in 1918 during the post-World War I occupation of Europe and was motivated -- presumably by boredom -- to write it."

Here's a wiki link which has footnotes supporting the legend: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggie_War_Hymn

Until last Saturday I had never attended an Aggie home game. I'd seen the Ags play at HRS many times. HRS is a better venue-- this thread's argument. But seeing a game at Kyle Field, one time, was a great experience, even though we lost. The Aggies have a passionate tradition. I admire it, and congratulate them.

I was at the 1973 game as a Rice undergraduate and I think the part that upset the Corps was goosesteping to the March of the Tin Soldiers. The goosestepping part could be upsetting if you look at the several hunderd names listed in the Memorial Student Center of those who died in WWII. I so not think it was about forming a fireplug for Reville since even the Aggies have to admit that Miss Reville Maam is really a dog. I understand A&M because I entered graduate school there in 1975. There are not many left at A&M to be unhappy about the 1973 show since it was 40 years ago. A student then would have to be at least 58 years old by now. When I am around A&M former students, I am considered an old AG.

Kyle Field is not that far away from the drill field except you had to go to the extreme south end of the stadium. Their football games were on the drill field from 1894 to 1905.

It takes more length to do chairback seats right than benches. Two rows of boxes fit into the same space as three rows of benches. The Cotton Bowl stadium fitted in chairbacks where there were originally benches. The result is uncomfortable since there is not enough leg room.

Going to Kyle Field is sort of like going to Fenway Park (where I saw a baseball game in July). It is not comfortable like Minute Maid Park, but there is more enthusiasm. The restroom facilities at Fenway are not very good. It was a hot night at Fenway, but I forgot the discomfort when the Sox won in the 9th on a walk-off homer off the top of the Green Monster. The Green line subway was really packed coming back. The first time I saw a game at Kyle Field was 1959 and I started going to HRS around then (my parents would take me).

It is interesting to see how their yells are signaled from the yell leaders to the students by hand signals passed along from the bottom to the top of the stadium.

If you had never been to Kyle Field, it is definately something that is a must, but I have been to Kyle Field many times in the past. I agree that the seats past the end line are terrible so I watched it in a bar near home. Those terrible seats are going to be removed in the rebuilding of Kyle Field.

One landmark that is going down for the renovation is the old Holler House on the Brazos-the G. Rollie White basketball stadium where I had gone for basketball games, class registration and graduation. It was in way of the stadium renovation. See the Wikipedia article for infromation about the renovotion and the seating capacity at various dates.

(09-01-2013 11:05 PM)3-OwlsInTheNest Wrote:  

(08-31-2013 10:40 PM)RiceDad Wrote:  As much as we complain about HRS, but IMO, by comparison, KF is a total POS. It has about 15K more capacity, but is a massive monster. Walking from our pregame tent halfway around the stadium was like a death march. Then at halftime, trying to get out of the sun and take a leak, was like going into some hot cramped cave. The concourses at HRS are wonderful by comparison. Getting to the upper decks looks like another death march compared to the same seats at Rice. So, even though HRS needs a lot of improvements, such as rest rooms, the rest rooms at KF were way worse. Returning from the game on the bus, I looked at Rice Stadium and thought how much more compact it was and way more manageable it is.

Wow. Death march from the tailgate tent. My impression, exactly, or to quote one of my Army buddies (Florida Gator and infantry officer)...perzackly. I'd argue it was a long march (Chairman Mao and Vice-Chairman Deng Xiaoping, take note) to take a leak. I made it, so it wasn't too long.

HRS, in its manicured decay, is still far superior to upscaled Kyle Field. SEC/ESPN uberhypers, this is empirically verifiable: Kyle Field is a second-rate venue.

So why did I attend the game last Saturday? I did not go to the game to compare venues. The main reason I drove to College Station and went to the game? I wanted to see the Owls play the Aggies (and I had a free ticket!) and check out our 2013 team.

My second reason: I think watching the Aggies play a home game qualifies as a real Texas experience, and has since World War One, if not 1900. And I had never had that experience.

Here goes my shot at making the argument that watching an A&M home game (even sitting in the Ags' wretched stadium) is a superb American college football experience, if not an essential Texas experience.

Last week my Rice grad wife (one of the 3 Owls in the nest) asked me a question that boiled down to "Why were the Aggies so upset in 1973?" My answer (over coffee) was: good question. I'll surmise Earl Rudder, Pont du Hoc and the answer to this question: "What US university had the most graduates and attendees killed and wounded in World War Two?" If Rudder and Pont du Hoc require an explanation please read a D-Day history which addresses Omaha Beach, Army Ranger Assault and Commander 2nd Ranger Battalion (the unit the fictional heroes in "Saving Private Ryan" were supposed to be in, if the only Hollywood history is all you know).

According to a newspaper article I recall reading sometime in the early 1960s (likely source either the Midland Reporter-Telegram or Ft Worth Star-Telegram but I am not certain), the answer to my question regarding casualties is Texas A&M.

Now here is the rest of my answer as to why the Corps went over the top in 1973: Ridiculing the Corps in the Vietnam-era may have had momentary TACTICAL political usefulness to a particular political slant, but it was historically stupid. However, the Corps was not ridiculed by the MOB in the 1973 game. I attended the 1973 game. I witnessed the show. The MOB satire was clean and funny and had more to do with sex than violence and Marvin ZIndler's baton twirling act ("Where has my little dog gone" ridiculed the Aggies' sense of loss after the shutdown of that shack outside La Grange) was the, uh, cherry on the "sex" whipped cream?

The MOB was hilarious. The Aggies were pissed that they lost the game.

These facts noted, I'll take bets that what I described to my wife is the historical prism and immediate political circumstance through which many Ags at HRS in 1973 saw/interpreted/completelyeffinmisunderstood the MOB's half-time show.

On Saturday, in the crappy end zone seat a long march from a leak, I got a glimpse of what makes A&M remarkable. All of these young people born circa 1993/1994 swaying back and forth while singing The War Hymn which is an adaptation of "Go tell Aunt Rhodie (Rhody)"??!! According to one source I googled (an Idaho site of all places): : "It was invented, the legend goes, by Pinky Wilson (A&M Class of 1920), who was on guard duty in 1918 during the post-World War I occupation of Europe and was motivated -- presumably by boredom -- to write it."

Here's a wiki link which has footnotes supporting the legend: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggie_War_Hymn

Until last Saturday I had never attended an Aggie home game. I'd seen the Ags play at HRS many times. HRS is a better venue-- this thread's argument. But seeing a game at Kyle Field, one time, was a great experience, even though we lost. The Aggies have a passionate tradition. I admire it, and congratulate them.

I have never been to Rice stadium for a football game, but I have seen a concert there. It seemed like a good venue to watch a game. My understanding is that it was built in one phase exclusively for football, so things seemed well thought out. Good sight lines and the stands seemed close to the field. I don't remember any problems locating the men's room or a concession stand. There were long lines extending outside the ladies room, but you see that at every sporting event.

Kyle Field, however, has been expanded several times since 1927. Each time they added to it, they were working with, and around, what was already in place. There used to be a track encircling the field, which they also had to accommodate. So yeah, it is not an ideal configuration and the amenities are not state of the art for 2013. The turf seems to be in good shape and it drains well when it rains, so it's got that going for it, at least.

I have been to lots of stadiums. The old ones all have their quirks. But I don't think I'm gonna have alot of nostalgia for the current version of Kyle Field. The new design looks alot more fan friendly. I don't anticipate the gameday atmosphere being that much different. There might be more fans of the visiting team in attendance, if only because there will be more capacity and they can expect a better view of the action on the field.

(09-01-2013 11:05 PM)3-OwlsInTheNest Wrote:  

(08-31-2013 10:40 PM)RiceDad Wrote:  As much as we complain about HRS, but IMO, by comparison, KF is a total POS. It has about 15K more capacity, but is a massive monster. Walking from our pregame tent halfway around the stadium was like a death march. Then at halftime, trying to get out of the sun and take a leak, was like going into some hot cramped cave. The concourses at HRS are wonderful by comparison. Getting to the upper decks looks like another death march compared to the same seats at Rice. So, even though HRS needs a lot of improvements, such as rest rooms, the rest rooms at KF were way worse. Returning from the game on the bus, I looked at Rice Stadium and thought how much more compact it was and way more manageable it is.

Wow. Death march from the tailgate tent. My impression, exactly, or to quote one of my Army buddies (Florida Gator and infantry officer)...perzackly. I'd argue it was a long march (Chairman Mao and Vice-Chairman Deng Xiaoping, take note) to take a leak. I made it, so it wasn't too long.

HRS, in its manicured decay, is still far superior to upscaled Kyle Field. SEC/ESPN uberhypers, this is empirically verifiable: Kyle Field is a second-rate venue.

So why did I attend the game last Saturday? I did not go to the game to compare venues. The main reason I drove to College Station and went to the game? I wanted to see the Owls play the Aggies (and I had a free ticket!) and check out our 2013 team.

My second reason: I think watching the Aggies play a home game qualifies as a real Texas experience, and has since World War One, if not 1900. And I had never had that experience.

Here goes my shot at making the argument that watching an A&M home game (even sitting in the Ags' wretched stadium) is a superb American college football experience, if not an essential Texas experience.

Last week my Rice grad wife (one of the 3 Owls in the nest) asked me a question that boiled down to "Why were the Aggies so upset in 1973?" My answer (over coffee) was: good question. I'll surmise Earl Rudder, Pont du Hoc and the answer to this question: "What US university had the most graduates and attendees killed and wounded in World War Two?" If Rudder and Pont du Hoc require an explanation please read a D-Day history which addresses Omaha Beach, Army Ranger Assault and Commander 2nd Ranger Battalion (the unit the fictional heroes in "Saving Private Ryan" were supposed to be in, if the only Hollywood history is all you know).

According to a newspaper article I recall reading sometime in the early 1960s (likely source either the Midland Reporter-Telegram or Ft Worth Star-Telegram but I am not certain), the answer to my question regarding casualties is Texas A&M.

Now here is the rest of my answer as to why the Corps went over the top in 1973: Ridiculing the Corps in the Vietnam-era may have had momentary TACTICAL political usefulness to a particular political slant, but it was historically stupid. However, the Corps was not ridiculed by the MOB in the 1973 game. I attended the 1973 game. I witnessed the show. The MOB satire was clean and funny and had more to do with sex than violence and Marvin ZIndler's baton twirling act ("Where has my little dog gone" ridiculed the Aggies' sense of loss after the shutdown of that shack outside La Grange) was the, uh, cherry on the "sex" whipped cream?

The MOB was hilarious. The Aggies were pissed that they lost the game.

These facts noted, I'll take bets that what I described to my wife is the historical prism and immediate political circumstance through which many Ags at HRS in 1973 saw/interpreted/completelyeffinmisunderstood the MOB's half-time show.

On Saturday, in the crappy end zone seat a long march from a leak, I got a glimpse of what makes A&M remarkable. All of these young people born circa 1993/1994 swaying back and forth while singing The War Hymn which is an adaptation of "Go tell Aunt Rhodie (Rhody)"??!! According to one source I googled (an Idaho site of all places): : "It was invented, the legend goes, by Pinky Wilson (A&M Class of 1920), who was on guard duty in 1918 during the post-World War I occupation of Europe and was motivated -- presumably by boredom -- to write it."

Here's a wiki link which has footnotes supporting the legend: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggie_War_Hymn

Until last Saturday I had never attended an Aggie home game. I'd seen the Ags play at HRS many times. HRS is a better venue-- this thread's argument. But seeing a game at Kyle Field, one time, was a great experience, even though we lost. The Aggies have a passionate tradition. I admire it, and congratulate them.

Who doesn't like the "I want my Mommy" part of the song...

Most of the added capacity will be used to alllow season tickets for the 20,000 on the waiting list for them. After the rebuilding is finished, the oldest parts will be the student side second deck from the late 1960s and the student side third deck from 1979. None of the stands that were around for the 1939 championship team would remain.

(09-02-2013 10:20 AM)Pike Bishop Wrote:  I have never been to Rice stadium for a football game, but I have seen a concert there. It seemed like a good venue to watch a game. My understanding is that it was built in one phase exclusively for football, so things seemed well thought out. Good sight lines and the stands seemed close to the field. I don't remember any problems locating the men's room or a concession stand. There were long lines extending outside the ladies room, but you see that at every sporting event.

Kyle Field, however, has been expanded several times since 1927. Each time they added to it, they were working with, and around, what was already in place. There used to be a track encircling the field, which they also had to accommodate. So yeah, it is not an ideal configuration and the amenities are not state of the art for 2013. The turf seems to be in good shape and it drains well when it rains, so it's got that going for it, at least.

I have been to lots of stadiums. The old ones all have their quirks. But I don't think I'm gonna have alot of nostalgia for the current version of Kyle Field. The new design looks alot more fan friendly. I don't anticipate the gameday atmosphere being that much different. There might be more fans of the visiting team in attendance, if only because there will be more capacity and they can expect a better view of the action on the field.

(09-02-2013 10:57 AM)13thOwl Wrote:  Who doesn't like the "I want my Mommy" part of the song...

NOW! DAMMIT!

I think people who manage stadiums underestimate the contribution of concessions to a positive fan experience. Stadium managers are interested in profit, so they cut corners and raise prices, but that approach is guaranteed to create a negative impression. Why intentionally create a negative experience for your customer? Is that truly good business practice? Isn't it more important to make sure that your customer wants to come back for a future game and will bring more family and friends next time?

Example: I went to the Miami Metro Zoo with my niece a couple of months ago. When it was lunch time, I resigned myself to crappy, overpriced concession food because the zoo had a monopoly on available food options and I was certain they'd take advantage of their captive audience so as to maximize profits--just like nearly every movie theater and stadium in the country. To my surprise, their concession food was pretty tasty and reasonably priced. They even served their own microbrew. Add to this experience the zoo's very excellent Groupon deal and the general niceness of the zoo, and you get me singing the praises of the Miami Metro Zoo as a family destination to my coworkers, my friends in the area, and to all of you. People who attend games at HRS ought to be speaking positively of the experience afterwards as well.

(Also, maybe we should look into setting up a Groupon or similar deal for our games. Offer tickets, concessions, and a Rice t-shirt for $XX. It would get Rice more publicity.)

(09-02-2013 01:14 PM)Caelligh Wrote:  

(09-02-2013 10:57 AM)13thOwl Wrote:  Who doesn't like the "I want my Mommy" part of the song...

NOW! DAMMIT!

I think people who manage stadiums underestimate the contribution of concessions to a positive fan experience. Stadium managers are interested in profit, so they cut corners and raise prices, but that approach is guaranteed to create a negative impression. Why intentionally create a negative experience for your customer? Is that truly good business practice? Isn't it more important to make sure that your customer wants to come back for a future game and will bring more family and friends next time?

Example: I went to the Miami Metro Zoo with my niece a couple of months ago. When it was lunch time, I resigned myself to crappy, overpriced concession food because the zoo had a monopoly on available food options and I was certain they'd take advantage of their captive audience so as to maximize profits--just like nearly every movie theater and stadium in the country. To my surprise, their concession food was pretty tasty and reasonably priced. They even served their own microbrew. Add to this experience the zoo's very excellent Groupon deal and the general niceness of the zoo, and you get me singing the praises of the Miami Metro Zoo as a family destination to my coworkers, my friends in the area, and to all of you. People who attend games at HRS ought to be speaking positively of the experience afterwards as well.

(Also, maybe we should look into setting up a Groupon or similar deal for our games. Offer tickets, concessions, and a Rice t-shirt for $XX. It would get Rice more publicity.)

The concessions, the variety (not Aramark doing silly little stations like MM), the ease of getting food/drink, the pricing (both low price items and upper price items), and the wait staff, was a big reason for my liking Target Field so much.

Agreed mostly, though I like specialty stands. I haven't been to a Round Rock game in a couple years, but they had a good variety that included a Nolan Ryan (of course) beef stand with burgers, sausages, and serious dogs; a Texadelphia for cheesesteaks and burgers; a Hooters Wings cart; a Blue Bell cart; a BBQ stand; a Pizza stand; plus the usual grill/concessions of a ballpark.

I'm sure we could get a wings cart (Hooters, BWW or whatever) and an ice cream cart (Amy's has a cart they cater with, and no doubt Blue Bell could accommodate as well). It also seems there's a BBQ joint or two with Rice ties that might be interested in setting up a stand. I see these specialty stands as good to spread around the stadium to take some of the pressure of the main concessions. Shoot, buy a couple of these and let the Boy Scouts who rent stadium seats sell popcorn and sodas as well.

(09-02-2013 01:14 PM)Caelligh Wrote:  (Also, maybe we should look into setting up a Groupon or similar deal for our games. Offer tickets, concessions, and a Rice t-shirt for $XX. It would get Rice more publicity.)

You mean something like this?

https://www.livingsocial.com/events/citi...urce=blast

(09-02-2013 02:53 PM)owl7886 Wrote:  

(09-02-2013 01:14 PM)Caelligh Wrote:  (Also, maybe we should look into setting up a Groupon or similar deal for our games. Offer tickets, concessions, and a Rice t-shirt for $XX. It would get Rice more publicity.)

You mean something like this?

https://www.livingsocial.com/events/citi...urce=blast

LOL. I didn't check Living Social. I'm not sure discounting tickets is enough, though. It ought to be more of an experience.

One thing HRS has that I never seen anywhere else--The Men's Room "Pee Wall."

(09-02-2013 05:01 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  One thing HRS has that I never seen anywhere else--The Men's Room "Pee Wall."

They are common in athletic facilities built on tight budgets. Places like junior high and high school stadia. They are also very efficient in terms of space, so if efficiency and affordability were design criteria, they make a lot of sense.

(09-02-2013 05:01 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  One thing HRS has that I never seen anywhere else--The Men's Room "Pee Wall."

I'm pretty sure that you can find the informal versions scattered around the world, but that's a feature I'd had to see disappear. I wonder if that wasn't more common at stadia 80+ years ago.

(09-02-2013 05:31 PM)RiceDoc Wrote:  

(09-02-2013 05:01 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  One thing HRS has that I never seen anywhere else--The Men's Room "Pee Wall."

They are common in athletic facilities built on tight budgets. Places like junior high and high school stadia. They are also very efficient in terms of space,

Also in terms of customers per minute!

Quote:...so if efficiency and affordability were design criteria, they make a lot of sense.

In other words: they just plain make sense! When it comes to restrooms facilities for large crowds, efficiency should completely trump modesty.

In the 50's the majority of attendees at Rice games were men and getting 50K or so of them to the restroom and back was accomplished with the pee walls. Compare that to the first deck at Reliant where each men's room has 10 urinals (5 on each side).

(09-02-2013 05:45 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(09-02-2013 05:31 PM)RiceDoc Wrote:  

(09-02-2013 05:01 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  One thing HRS has that I never seen anywhere else--The Men's Room "Pee Wall."

They are common in athletic facilities built on tight budgets. Places like junior high and high school stadia. They are also very efficient in terms of space,

Also in terms of customers per minute!

Quote:...so if efficiency and affordability were design criteria, they make a lot of sense.

In other words: they just plain make sense! When it comes to restrooms facilities for large crowds, efficiency should completely trump modesty.

If the walls in the center were just 18" higher, we wouldn't have to smile at each other from opposite sides.