College sports Madness is counting down its top 144 basketball teams for 2013-14, revealing a new team each day right up to Midnight Madness. Here's the link:

http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/mens...4-previews

So far 2 Big East teams have shown up:

109 - Seton Hall
76 - Xavier

One AAC team has show up:

75 - Houston

Xavier, at #76, is a joke. They will contend in the BE this season, and finish in the top three. They are seriously undervalued by the media because of last season's debacle, but make no mistake...they will be back this year and will surprise a lot of people. Go long on the Muskies.

(08-28-2013 08:53 AM)X-man Wrote:  Xavier, at #76, is a joke. They will contend in the BE this season, and finish in the top three. They are seriously undervalued by the media because of last season's debacle, but make no mistake...they will be back this year and will surprise a lot of people. Go long on the Muskies.

We will see on New Years eve. This isn't the A-10 anymore.

(08-28-2013 08:53 AM)X-man Wrote:  Xavier, at #76, is a joke. They will contend in the BE this season, and finish in the top three. They are seriously undervalued by the media because of last season's debacle, but make no mistake...they will be back this year and will surprise a lot of people. Go long on the Muskies.

Read the article. The authors are not really down on Xavier at all. In fact they say: "Xavier has the potential to be a big surprise team in the Big East."

The problem they have with Xavier is at point guard: "it's not a good thing when your point guard seems to disappear for long stretches at a time." They describe PG Dee Davis as "up and down" and lack(ing) consistency." With regard to Davis, they also say: "there is room for irovement." They seem to feel that he has the ability but they haven't yet seen it displayed consistently.therefore, they're not yet ready to rank them higher at this stage.

(08-28-2013 09:48 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(08-28-2013 08:53 AM)X-man Wrote:  Xavier, at #76, is a joke. They will contend in the BE this season, and finish in the top three. They are seriously undervalued by the media because of last season's debacle, but make no mistake...they will be back this year and will surprise a lot of people. Go long on the Muskies.

Read the article. The authors are not really down on Xavier at all. In fact they say: "Xavier has the potential to be a big surprise team in the Big East."

The proble they have with Xavier is at point guard: "it's not a good thing when your point guard seems to disappear for long stretches at a time." They describe PG Dee Davis as "up and down" and lack(ing) consistency." With regard to Davis, they also say: "there is room for irovement." They seem to feel that he has the ability but they haven't yet seen it displayed consistently.therefore, they're not yet ready to rank them higher at this stage.

I think you see Semaj taking the ball up more this year, now that he has a year under his belt.

(08-28-2013 01:30 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(08-28-2013 08:53 AM)X-man Wrote:  Xavier, at #76, is a joke. They will contend in the BE this season, and finish in the top three. They are seriously undervalued by the media because of last season's debacle, but make no mistake...they will be back this year and will surprise a lot of people. Go long on the Muskies.

We will see on New Years eve. This isn't the A-10 anymore.

I know, but Xavier isn't last year's team either. Think Xavier over the last decade and you have a better idea as to what to expect from us.

revealing one a day seems a little bit drawn out to me.

Temple has just popped up at #72. They classify this as a rebuilding year for them. Weak recruiting but still some pretty good talent left for last year's bench and their 2 returning starters.

(08-30-2013 01:43 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  Temple has just popped up at #72. They classify this as a rebuilding year for them. Weak recruiting but still some pretty good talent left for last year's bench and their 2 returning starters.

I wouldn't say weak recruiting, because the two we have in this year's class will be major contributors. The problem is we're not recruiting any better. Dunphy is still giving scholarships here and there to recruits who have no business playing at Temple (we were at 2 like that until 1 withdrew from school before even getting here). There is definitely some talent on our team, but we lack depth. We will fight for a Tournament spot like we do every year.

(09-01-2013 03:36 AM)JHG722 Wrote:  

(08-30-2013 01:43 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  Temple has just popped up at #72. They classify this as a rebuilding year for them. Weak recruiting but still some pretty good talent left for last year's bench and their 2 returning starters.

I wouldn't say weak recruiting, because the two we have in this year's class will be major contributors. The problem is we're not recruiting any better. Dunphy is still giving scholarships here and there to recruits who have no business playing at Temple (we were at 2 like that until 1 withdrew from school before even getting here). There is definitely some talent on our team, but we lack depth. We will fight for a Tournament spot like we do every year.

I was trying to be concise. Here's the direct quote from the article:

"With all of those departures, it seems like this should be a pretty big recruiting class. But there are only two confirmed commitments at this point."

Both of those two are 3* recruits. 3* recruits by definition are not expected to be impact players in their first year.

Temple has only 2 players back from last year of the top 7 in minutes played. No one else returning averaged more than 11 mpg. So, the question is: Who's going to replace those other 5 players?

Frankly I think that the writers at College Sports Madness were generous in ranking Temple as high as they have. I'll be shocked if the Owls are fighting for a tournament spot this year.

Prepare to be shocked. If anything, based on history, they undervalued us. Who is going to replace the other players? The players we have returning and incoming obviously.

PG Cummings returns
SG DeCosey replaces Wyatt
SF Pepper replaces Randall
F Dingle replaces Hollis-Jefferson
F/C Lee returns

Josh Brown backs up Cummings and DeCosey. Mark Williams backs up Dingle. Watson backs up Lee. It's only 8 deep, but we're almost never over 8 deep anyway. If we go small with Cummings, DeCosey, Brown, we're talking elite level defense and a big upgrade over Wyatt in that regard.

(09-01-2013 08:16 AM)JHG722 Wrote:  Prepare to be shocked. If anything, based on history, they undervalued us. Who is going to replace the other players? The players we have returning and incoming obviously.

PG Cummings returns
SG DeCosey replaces Wyatt
SF Pepper replaces Randall
F Dingle replaces Hollis-Jefferson
F/C Lee returns

Josh Brown backs up Cummings and DeCosey. Mark Williams backs up Dingle. Watson backs up Lee. It's only 8 deep, but we're almost never over 8 deep anyway. If we go small with Cummings, DeCosey, Brown, we're talking elite level defense and a big upgrade over Wyatt in that regard.

Agree that the team will be fine with Cummings and Lee coming back. I'm very high on Lee.

But seriously who's ready to step up for Wyatt? And Who's going to replace O'Brien? He was the team's only decent 3-point shooter. And who's going to do the job on the boards that Hollis-Jefferson and Randall did.

Of course there will be players who step in and take the place of those who have left, but by putting up the names you did, you've just defined the problem. DeCosey (7 mpg, 28 ganes), Pepper (11 mpg, 29 games), and Dingle (4 mpg, 10 games) are going to have to step in and play starters minutes with very little experience under their belts. None of them were big time recruits who have just been waiting for their turn to step into the starting lineup.

If those guys are the best, you have to offer, then you're in trouble at least in terms of being a tournament contender.

Not trying to be hard on you guys. Just being realistic.

(09-01-2013 08:31 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(09-01-2013 08:16 AM)JHG722 Wrote:  Prepare to be shocked. If anything, based on history, they undervalued us. Who is going to replace the other players? The players we have returning and incoming obviously.

PG Cummings returns
SG DeCosey replaces Wyatt
SF Pepper replaces Randall
F Dingle replaces Hollis-Jefferson
F/C Lee returns

Josh Brown backs up Cummings and DeCosey. Mark Williams backs up Dingle. Watson backs up Lee. It's only 8 deep, but we're almost never over 8 deep anyway. If we go small with Cummings, DeCosey, Brown, we're talking elite level defense and a big upgrade over Wyatt in that regard.

Agree that the team will be fine with Cummings and Lee coming back. I'm very high on Lee.

But seriously who's ready to step up for Wyatt? And Who's going to replace O'Brien? He was the team's only decent 3-point shooter. And who's going to do the job on the boards that Hollis-Jefferson and Randall did.

Of course there will be players who step in and take the place of those who have left, but by putting up the names you did, you've just defined the problem. DeCosey (7 mpg, 28 ganes), Pepper (11 mpg, 29 games), and Dingle (4 mpg, 10 games) are going to have to step in and play starters minutes with very little experience under their belts. None of them were big time recruits who have just been waiting for their turn to step into the starting lineup.

If those guys are the best, you have to offer, then you're in trouble at least in terms of being a tournament contender.

Not trying to be hard on you guys. Just being realistic.

DeCosey will replace Wyatt. Lee will improve his rebound totals and Dingle will pick up where our forwards left off.

You know who else wasn't a big time recruit? Wyatt. You know who else? Dionte Christmas. DeCosey and Dingle were much more heralded than both of them. DeCosey had offers from Penn State, West Virginia, and VA Tech amongst others. Dingle had offers from Arizona, Auburn, UC, Dayton, Iowa State, Rutgers, Seton Hall, St. John's, UVA, VA Tech, WVU, Xavier, etc. Dingle was a 4* recruit on Scout and a top 150 recruit on Rivals.

(09-01-2013 06:23 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  

(09-01-2013 08:31 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(09-01-2013 08:16 AM)JHG722 Wrote:  Prepare to be shocked. If anything, based on history, they undervalued us. Who is going to replace the other players? The players we have returning and incoming obviously.

PG Cummings returns
SG DeCosey replaces Wyatt
SF Pepper replaces Randall
F Dingle replaces Hollis-Jefferson
F/C Lee returns

Josh Brown backs up Cummings and DeCosey. Mark Williams backs up Dingle. Watson backs up Lee. It's only 8 deep, but we're almost never over 8 deep anyway. If we go small with Cummings, DeCosey, Brown, we're talking elite level defense and a big upgrade over Wyatt in that regard.

Agree that the team will be fine with Cummings and Lee coming back. I'm very high on Lee.

But seriously who's ready to step up for Wyatt? And Who's going to replace O'Brien? He was the team's only decent 3-point shooter. And who's going to do the job on the boards that Hollis-Jefferson and Randall did.

Of course there will be players who step in and take the place of those who have left, but by putting up the names you did, you've just defined the problem. DeCosey (7 mpg, 28 ganes), Pepper (11 mpg, 29 games), and Dingle (4 mpg, 10 games) are going to have to step in and play starters minutes with very little experience under their belts. None of them were big time recruits who have just been waiting for their turn to step into the starting lineup.

If those guys are the best, you have to offer, then you're in trouble at least in terms of being a tournament contender.

Not trying to be hard on you guys. Just being realistic.

DeCosey will replace Wyatt. Lee will improve his rebound totals and Dingle will pick up where our forwards left off.

You know who else wasn't a big time recruit? Wyatt. You know who else? Dionte Christmas. DeCosey and Dingle were much more heralded than both of them. DeCosey had offers from Penn State, West Virginia, and VA Tech amongst others. Dingle had offers from Arizona, Auburn, UC, Dayton, Iowa State, Rutgers, Seton Hall, St. John's, UVA, VA Tech, WVU, Xavier, etc. Dingle was a 4* recruit on Scout and a top 150 recruit on Rivals.

If you say so . . .

Frankly I think you're setting yourself up for a big disappointment. The fact that Wyatt could come out of nowhere to become a star means absolutely nothing about anyone else's chances to do the same. If anyone could do that, then we'd see schools that recruit 2* players turning out stars all the time. But it doesn't happen.

I don't care how many schools recruited Dingle or how many stars he earned whether it was 3* on Rivals or 4* on Scout. Do you realize what you're asking of this kid? He's only a sophomore. He played in only 10 games last year and averaged less than 4 mpg when he did play. The coach who knew him best last year decided that he wasn't ready for prime time. If he had been, he would have played more. A player doesn't go from not being ready to a major contributor over night. He obviously still needs more time to develop. An increased role? Sure. Major contributor on a tournament team? No.

Even with that, you're ignoring the fact that it's not just about replacing the starters. O'Brien was a major contributor last year off the bench. Who's going to replace him?
This team is thin on both talent and experience. They won"t win games just because it says "Temple" on their jerseys.

(08-28-2013 08:53 AM)X-man Wrote:  Xavier, at #76, is a joke. They will contend in the BE this season, and finish in the top three. They are seriously undervalued by the media because of last season's debacle, but make no mistake...they will be back this year and will surprise a lot of people. Go long on the Muskies.

They also did not include them in their field of 64, just saying.

The only people who will be surprised are the ones sitting in Cintas Center and realize these teams are better than what their use to seeing.

(09-01-2013 06:40 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(09-01-2013 06:23 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  

(09-01-2013 08:31 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(09-01-2013 08:16 AM)JHG722 Wrote:  Prepare to be shocked. If anything, based on history, they undervalued us. Who is going to replace the other players? The players we have returning and incoming obviously.

PG Cummings returns
SG DeCosey replaces Wyatt
SF Pepper replaces Randall
F Dingle replaces Hollis-Jefferson
F/C Lee returns

Josh Brown backs up Cummings and DeCosey. Mark Williams backs up Dingle. Watson backs up Lee. It's only 8 deep, but we're almost never over 8 deep anyway. If we go small with Cummings, DeCosey, Brown, we're talking elite level defense and a big upgrade over Wyatt in that regard.

Agree that the team will be fine with Cummings and Lee coming back. I'm very high on Lee.

But seriously who's ready to step up for Wyatt? And Who's going to replace O'Brien? He was the team's only decent 3-point shooter. And who's going to do the job on the boards that Hollis-Jefferson and Randall did.

Of course there will be players who step in and take the place of those who have left, but by putting up the names you did, you've just defined the problem. DeCosey (7 mpg, 28 ganes), Pepper (11 mpg, 29 games), and Dingle (4 mpg, 10 games) are going to have to step in and play starters minutes with very little experience under their belts. None of them were big time recruits who have just been waiting for their turn to step into the starting lineup.

If those guys are the best, you have to offer, then you're in trouble at least in terms of being a tournament contender.

Not trying to be hard on you guys. Just being realistic.

DeCosey will replace Wyatt. Lee will improve his rebound totals and Dingle will pick up where our forwards left off.

You know who else wasn't a big time recruit? Wyatt. You know who else? Dionte Christmas. DeCosey and Dingle were much more heralded than both of them. DeCosey had offers from Penn State, West Virginia, and VA Tech amongst others. Dingle had offers from Arizona, Auburn, UC, Dayton, Iowa State, Rutgers, Seton Hall, St. John's, UVA, VA Tech, WVU, Xavier, etc. Dingle was a 4* recruit on Scout and a top 150 recruit on Rivals.

If you say so . . .

Frankly I think you're setting yourself up for a big disappointment. The fact that Wyatt could come out of nowhere to become a star means absolutely nothing about anyone else's chances to do the same. If anyone could do that, then we'd see schools that recruit 2* players turning out stars all the time. But it doesn't happen.

I don't care how many schools recruited Dingle or how many stars he earned whether it was 3* on Rivals or 4* on Scout. Do you realize what you're asking of this kid? He's only a sophomore. He played in only 10 games last year and averaged less than 4 mpg when he did play. The coach who knew him best last year decided that he wasn't ready for prime time. If he had been, he would have played more. A player doesn't go from not being ready to a major contributor over night. He obviously still needs more time to develop. An increased role? Sure. Major contributor on a tournament team? No.

Even with that, you're ignoring the fact that it's not just about replacing the starters. O'Brien was a major contributor last year off the bench. Who's going to replace him?
This team is thin on both talent and experience. They won"t win games just because it says "Temple" on their jerseys.

If you knew anything, you'd know Dunphy rarely plays freshmen. It's not necessarily a testament to their skill level or readiness. Lavoy Allen and Juan Fernandez are really the only freshman that ever played a lot.

2008 leading scorer Dionte Christmas:

FR: 3.5 PPG (11.3 MPG)
SO: 20 PPG, 4.2 RPG, 2.1 APG (34.3 MPG)

2012 second leading scorer Scootie Randall:

Barely played his first two years.
FR: 1.2 PPG
SO: 1.9 PPG (7 MPG)
JR: 10.7 PPG, 4.7 RPG (30.3 MPG)

2010 & 2011 leading scorer Ramone Moore:

FR: 4.5 PPG, 2.3 RPG as 8th man (13.2 MPG)
SO: 7.6 PPG, 3.1 RPG, 1.5 APG (18 MPG)
JR: 15.2 PPG, 4.2 RPG, 3.1 APG (33.9 MPG)

2012 leading scorer Khalif Wyatt:

FR: 1.9 MPG
SO: 10.1 PPG, 2.2 RPG, 1.7 APG (20.7 MPG)
JR: 17.1 PPG, 3.2 RPG, 3.3 APG (33 MPG)


2009 second leading scorer Juan Fernandez:

FR: 5.5 PPG, 1.9 RPG, 2.7 APG (19.6 MPG)
SO: 12.6, 2.4 RPG, 3.6 APG (31.6 MPG)

So 3 of our last 4 season leading scorers played 1.9, 11.3, and 13.2 minutes per game their freshman year. Look at the jump when all of our best players played 20+ MPG.

(09-01-2013 07:49 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  

(09-01-2013 06:40 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(09-01-2013 06:23 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  

(09-01-2013 08:31 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(09-01-2013 08:16 AM)JHG722 Wrote:  Prepare to be shocked. If anything, based on history, they undervalued us. Who is going to replace the other players? The players we have returning and incoming obviously.

PG Cummings returns
SG DeCosey replaces Wyatt
SF Pepper replaces Randall
F Dingle replaces Hollis-Jefferson
F/C Lee returns

Josh Brown backs up Cummings and DeCosey. Mark Williams backs up Dingle. Watson backs up Lee. It's only 8 deep, but we're almost never over 8 deep anyway. If we go small with Cummings, DeCosey, Brown, we're talking elite level defense and a big upgrade over Wyatt in that regard.

Agree that the team will be fine with Cummings and Lee coming back. I'm very high on Lee.

But seriously who's ready to step up for Wyatt? And Who's going to replace O'Brien? He was the team's only decent 3-point shooter. And who's going to do the job on the boards that Hollis-Jefferson and Randall did.

Of course there will be players who step in and take the place of those who have left, but by putting up the names you did, you've just defined the problem. DeCosey (7 mpg, 28 ganes), Pepper (11 mpg, 29 games), and Dingle (4 mpg, 10 games) are going to have to step in and play starters minutes with very little experience under their belts. None of them were big time recruits who have just been waiting for their turn to step into the starting lineup.

If those guys are the best, you have to offer, then you're in trouble at least in terms of being a tournament contender.

Not trying to be hard on you guys. Just being realistic.

DeCosey will replace Wyatt. Lee will improve his rebound totals and Dingle will pick up where our forwards left off.

You know who else wasn't a big time recruit? Wyatt. You know who else? Dionte Christmas. DeCosey and Dingle were much more heralded than both of them. DeCosey had offers from Penn State, West Virginia, and VA Tech amongst others. Dingle had offers from Arizona, Auburn, UC, Dayton, Iowa State, Rutgers, Seton Hall, St. John's, UVA, VA Tech, WVU, Xavier, etc. Dingle was a 4* recruit on Scout and a top 150 recruit on Rivals.

If you say so . . .

Frankly I think you're setting yourself up for a big disappointment. The fact that Wyatt could come out of nowhere to become a star means absolutely nothing about anyone else's chances to do the same. If anyone could do that, then we'd see schools that recruit 2* players turning out stars all the time. But it doesn't happen.

I don't care how many schools recruited Dingle or how many stars he earned whether it was 3* on Rivals or 4* on Scout. Do you realize what you're asking of this kid? He's only a sophomore. He played in only 10 games last year and averaged less than 4 mpg when he did play. The coach who knew him best last year decided that he wasn't ready for prime time. If he had been, he would have played more. A player doesn't go from not being ready to a major contributor over night. He obviously still needs more time to develop. An increased role? Sure. Major contributor on a tournament team? No.

Even with that, you're ignoring the fact that it's not just about replacing the starters. O'Brien was a major contributor last year off the bench. Who's going to replace him?
This team is thin on both talent and experience. They won"t win games just because it says "Temple" on their jerseys.

If you knew anything, you'd know Dunphy rarely plays freshmen. It's not necessarily a testament to their skill level or readiness. Lavoy Allen and Juan Fernandez are really the only freshman that ever played a lot.

2008 leading scorer Dionte Christmas:

FR: 3.5 PPG (11.3 MPG)
SO: 20 PPG, 4.2 RPG, 2.1 APG (34.3 MPG)

2012 second leading scorer Scootie Randall:

Barely played his first two years.
FR: 1.2 PPG
SO: 1.9 PPG (7 MPG)
JR: 10.7 PPG, 4.7 RPG (30.3 MPG)

2010 & 2011 leading scorer Ramone Moore:

FR: 4.5 PPG, 2.3 RPG as 8th man (13.2 MPG)
SO: 7.6 PPG, 3.1 RPG, 1.5 APG (18 MPG)
JR: 15.2 PPG, 4.2 RPG, 3.1 APG (33.9 MPG)

2012 leading scorer Khalif Wyatt:

FR: 1.9 MPG
SO: 10.1 PPG, 2.2 RPG, 1.7 APG (20.7 MPG)
JR: 17.1 PPG, 3.2 RPG, 3.3 APG (33 MPG)


2009 second leading scorer Juan Fernandez:

FR: 5.5 PPG, 1.9 RPG, 2.7 APG (19.6 MPG)
SO: 12.6, 2.4 RPG, 3.6 APG (31.6 MPG)

So 3 of our last 4 season leading scorers played 1.9, 11.3, and 13.2 minutes per game their freshman year. Look at the jump when all of our best players played 20+ MPG.

Do you evaluate other schools the same way you evaluate your own?

I dont know what you mean. Just showing you the facts.

(09-02-2013 02:54 AM)JHG722 Wrote:  I dont know what you mean. Just showing you the facts.

I understand that you're showing facts about past Temple players who were not highly rated coming out of HS but who stepped up at Temple and became solid starters or even a star like Wyatt.

I'm just saying that to be consistent you then have to apply the same standard to every other school and assume that anyone with a 2* or 3* player on their bench also has a solid starter or a potential star waiting to blossom if he is simply given the playing time. Or are you saying that Dunphy is simply a phenomenal coach who can squeeze performance out of inferior talent in a way that no one else can?

What I've been saying is that Temple has many holes in their 7 man rotation to fill. Their remaining talent isn't better than anyone else's. in fact, it's probably inferior to a lot of other teams they'll be facing. They were a good team last year but not a special team, so with what they lost, they have a lot of work to do.

I'm not wishing bad things for Temple. I'm only commenting on what they have on paper. If they overcome the obstacles in front of them and overachieve, I'll salute them. Just saying that they have a lot to overcome.

(09-02-2013 12:08 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(09-02-2013 02:54 AM)JHG722 Wrote:  I dont know what you mean. Just showing you the facts.

Or are you saying that Dunphy is simply a phenomenal coach who can squeeze performance out of inferior talent in a way that no one else can?

Their remaining talent isn't better than anyone else's. in fact, it's probably inferior to a lot of other teams they'll be facing.

This is the point. See, Villanova, Syracuse, NC State last year. Villanova, Duke, the year before.