(08-26-2013 11:07 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 09:30 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I'm sorry G5 people - it's going to be all or nothing. Either (1) this is just a way to get more control over rule making within the NCAA (which will result in little change and likely mean ALL FBS conferences will be in Division 4) or (2) there is a true consolidation of power (which means that whatever criteria there might be, it will be constructed in a way to ensure that ONLY the 5 power conferences are included).

I understand schools like UConn, Cincinnati, and ECU desperately wanting to find "individual" ways to get into Division 4, but the reality is that either there's going to be a whole lot of change or very little change at all. What doesn't make sense is some type of half measure where the 5 power conferences allow some G5 schools or conferences to come with them but not all of them. The power conferences aren't going to go through all of this where the net effect is just to relegate the MAC, Sun Belt and C-USA.

I'm sorry Frank, with all due respect, I don't think this is going to absolutely have to end up at one extreme or the other. Too many statements from higher ups have shown that both of those extremes would be very distasteful to many higher ups. FBS has become "watered down" with all the new invitees. That is not my opinion, that just seems to be the opinion of many officials at the Major Schools. So taking the entire FBS as is seems very unlikely. There will be a cut off, in my opinion.

In the opposite direction, cutting off the entirety of everyone not in a P5 seems just as unlikely. I could come up with a long explanation for such but instead I just resort to mentioning an old tried and true battle plan. That would be Divide and Conquer.

He1nous, Frank is right about this one. What presidents and such say is simply about maintaining a climate of discussion. What they decide will end the discussion. If they go for a half measure they are only repeating the mistakes of the past. There is much more on the line now. They'll be polite and diplomatic, but the life boats aren't going to row back into the masses just to get swamped. It's everyone for themselves now. The NCAA leadership will either show up on time and rescue everyone, or the life boats will assemble outside of the perimeter of destruction and organize a plan for survival. Since the NCAA hasn't been timely to any of its disasters I'm not betting they are timely on this one either.

(08-26-2013 11:15 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 11:07 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 09:30 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I'm sorry G5 people - it's going to be all or nothing. Either (1) this is just a way to get more control over rule making within the NCAA (which will result in little change and likely mean ALL FBS conferences will be in Division 4) or (2) there is a true consolidation of power (which means that whatever criteria there might be, it will be constructed in a way to ensure that ONLY the 5 power conferences are included).

I understand schools like UConn, Cincinnati, and ECU desperately wanting to find "individual" ways to get into Division 4, but the reality is that either there's going to be a whole lot of change or very little change at all. What doesn't make sense is some type of half measure where the 5 power conferences allow some G5 schools or conferences to come with them but not all of them. The power conferences aren't going to go through all of this where the net effect is just to relegate the MAC, Sun Belt and C-USA.

I'm sorry Frank, with all due respect, I don't think this is going to absolutely have to end up at one extreme or the other. Too many statements from higher ups have shown that both of those extremes would be very distasteful to many higher ups. FBS has become "watered down" with all the new invitees. That is not my opinion, that just seems to be the opinion of many officials at the Major Schools. So taking the entire FBS as is seems very unlikely. There will be a cut off, in my opinion.

In the opposite direction, cutting off the entirety of everyone not in a P5 seems just as unlikely. I could come up with a long explanation for such but instead I just resort to mentioning an old tried and true battle plan. That would be Divide and Conquer.

He1nous, Frank is right about this one. What presidents and such say is simply about maintaining a climate of discussion. What they decide will end the discussion. If they go for a half measure they are only repeating the mistakes of the past. There is much more on the line now. They'll be polite and diplomatic, but the life boats aren't going to row back into the masses just to get swamped. It's everyone for themselves now. The NCAA leadership will either show up on time and rescue everyone, or the life boats will assemble outside of the perimeter of destruction and organize a plan for survival. Since the NCAA hasn't been timely to any of its disasters I'm not betting they are timely on this one either.

I hope you're right - if the P5 splits off it's just the P5.

(08-25-2013 05:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 05:24 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  I don't see it being as high as 50k. Probably closer to 40k if you had to pick a number.

Yeah, I think the range should be between 40k and 50k for tickets sold. If a school is averaging 43k and wanted to make the move they could simply by the difference out for whatever the cutoff number happens to be. If it is going to be an actual head count then the number does need to be around 40k. I think one of the factors left out of this thread is athletic endowment size and another is the number of sports required. If a school averages in actual head count 40k, is willing to meet the required admissions standards, develops an athletic endowment in the north of 1 billion range (doesn't have to start there), agrees to full cost of attendance stipends, and meets facilities requirements then there is no reason to keep them out. I think that would keep the number of institutions between 60 and 72 roughly.

The problem with tickets sold is some schools have sold tickets for like $3 each to increase atttendance. So a school could sell say all of its endzone seats, or wherever, for $1 each or $5 etc. and wealthy donors could buy them all and give them away to school kids, city employees etc..

Attendance is also difficult. I heard of one school that closed the cafeteria's on campus on game day and served lunch for the students inside the stadium to increase attendance.

Stipends, increasing the number of scholarships for football say 30 per year with no overall limit and basketball to 15, and stadium size to 45,000 minimum permanent seats would be easier to implement and enforce..

(08-26-2013 01:43 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 11:15 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 11:07 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 09:30 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I'm sorry G5 people - it's going to be all or nothing. Either (1) this is just a way to get more control over rule making within the NCAA (which will result in little change and likely mean ALL FBS conferences will be in Division 4) or (2) there is a true consolidation of power (which means that whatever criteria there might be, it will be constructed in a way to ensure that ONLY the 5 power conferences are included).

I understand schools like UConn, Cincinnati, and ECU desperately wanting to find "individual" ways to get into Division 4, but the reality is that either there's going to be a whole lot of change or very little change at all. What doesn't make sense is some type of half measure where the 5 power conferences allow some G5 schools or conferences to come with them but not all of them. The power conferences aren't going to go through all of this where the net effect is just to relegate the MAC, Sun Belt and C-USA.

I'm sorry Frank, with all due respect, I don't think this is going to absolutely have to end up at one extreme or the other. Too many statements from higher ups have shown that both of those extremes would be very distasteful to many higher ups. FBS has become "watered down" with all the new invitees. That is not my opinion, that just seems to be the opinion of many officials at the Major Schools. So taking the entire FBS as is seems very unlikely. There will be a cut off, in my opinion.

In the opposite direction, cutting off the entirety of everyone not in a P5 seems just as unlikely. I could come up with a long explanation for such but instead I just resort to mentioning an old tried and true battle plan. That would be Divide and Conquer.

He1nous, Frank is right about this one. What presidents and such say is simply about maintaining a climate of discussion. What they decide will end the discussion. If they go for a half measure they are only repeating the mistakes of the past. There is much more on the line now. They'll be polite and diplomatic, but the life boats aren't going to row back into the masses just to get swamped. It's everyone for themselves now. The NCAA leadership will either show up on time and rescue everyone, or the life boats will assemble outside of the perimeter of destruction and organize a plan for survival. Since the NCAA hasn't been timely to any of its disasters I'm not betting they are timely on this one either.

I hope you're right - if the P5 splits off it's just the P5.

I'm not 100% sure all of the P5 schools will be in Division 4.

If it comes down to just the P5 and Notre Dame, college football will have killed the goose that lays the golden eggs. Very few fans want a P5/mini-NFL. Half of America will tune out if they're not represented by their local college team.

1) Memphis fans aren't going to start buying Tennessee flags for their car.
2) Fresno fans aren't going to start buying Stanford t-shirts.
3) UConn fans aren't going to start buying Boston College season tickets.

They'll just swear off college football and go fishing.

(08-25-2013 05:20 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 05:18 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  But it would allow those who have already put in time and effort like BYU and ECU from being penalized and can join right away

Join...as Independents? BYU maybe but I don't see how that is viable for ECU.

Why not? If there is an objective criteria regarding attendance it's easy to see how ECU and BYU immediately jump to the top of those lists. I'd think we'd have a lot of the P5 conference programs lining up to schedule us. I'd absolutely LOVE it if we could go Indy in football again. I have no idea what would happen to our Oly sports in that situation though.

(08-26-2013 11:07 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 09:30 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I'm sorry G5 people - it's going to be all or nothing. Either (1) this is just a way to get more control over rule making within the NCAA (which will result in little change and likely mean ALL FBS conferences will be in Division 4) or (2) there is a true consolidation of power (which means that whatever criteria there might be, it will be constructed in a way to ensure that ONLY the 5 power conferences are included).

I understand schools like UConn, Cincinnati, and ECU desperately wanting to find "individual" ways to get into Division 4, but the reality is that either there's going to be a whole lot of change or very little change at all. What doesn't make sense is some type of half measure where the 5 power conferences allow some G5 schools or conferences to come with them but not all of them. The power conferences aren't going to go through all of this where the net effect is just to relegate the MAC, Sun Belt and C-USA.

I'm sorry Frank, with all due respect, I don't think this is going to absolutely have to end up at one extreme or the other. Too many statements from higher ups have shown that both of those extremes would be very distasteful to many higher ups. FBS has become "watered down" with all the new invitees. That is not my opinion, that just seems to be the opinion of many officials at the Major Schools. So taking the entire FBS as is seems very unlikely. There will be a cut off, in my opinion.

In the opposite direction, cutting off the entirety of everyone not in a P5 seems just as unlikely. I could come up with a long explanation for such but instead I just resort to mentioning an old tried and true battle plan. That would be Divide and Conquer.

Plenty of folks in the middle of the 2 extremes have also voiced their opinions. Like many controversial topics, everybody remembers the loud mouthed a$$holes.