The soft bigotry of low expectations. "It's too hard."

It comes in handy for libs when a common sense reform is forwarded that would hurt their election rigging industry.

Why is anybody surprised or shocked that a political crew from Chicago has taken dirty politics national?

Powell weighs in on the new NC Voter ID law.

http://www.wral.com/colin-powell-rips-nc.../12806467/

(08-22-2013 05:19 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Powell weighs in on the new NC Voter ID law.

http://www.wral.com/colin-powell-rips-nc.../12806467/

Colin Powell the Obama supporter is against it? I don't know many democrats that are for it.

Many people have died to make sure we have the vote, wonder what they would
think about simply making sure people are not voting multiple times.

(08-22-2013 08:47 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Many people have died to make sure we have the vote, wonder what they would
think about simply making sure people are not voting multiple times.

It is a felony to vote multiple times. Anyone caught doing so is charged and if convicted faces serious consequences. People doing this are few and far between.

(08-22-2013 08:52 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(08-22-2013 08:47 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Many people have died to make sure we have the vote, wonder what they would
think about simply making sure people are not voting multiple times.

It is a felony to vote multiple times. Anyone caught doing so is charged and if convicted faces serious consequences. People doing this are few and far between.

People GETTING CAUGHT doing it are few and far between. But with no reliable method of detection, that says nothing about how many are doing it.

(08-22-2013 08:55 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-22-2013 08:52 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(08-22-2013 08:47 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Many people have died to make sure we have the vote, wonder what they would
think about simply making sure people are not voting multiple times.

It is a felony to vote multiple times. Anyone caught doing so is charged and if convicted faces serious consequences. People doing this are few and far between.

People GETTING CAUGHT doing it are few and far between. But with no reliable method of detection, that says nothing about how many are doing it.

If at was happening a lot then more people would get caught.

(08-22-2013 08:58 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(08-22-2013 08:55 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-22-2013 08:52 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(08-22-2013 08:47 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Many people have died to make sure we have the vote, wonder what they would
think about simply making sure people are not voting multiple times.

It is a felony to vote multiple times. Anyone caught doing so is charged and if convicted faces serious consequences. People doing this are few and far between.

People GETTING CAUGHT doing it are few and far between. But with no reliable method of detection, that says nothing about how many are doing it.

If at was happening a lot then more people would get caught.

How would they get caught? What detection mechanisms exist?

People don't catch themselves. There has to be some way to catch them. What is it?

NSA could probably find out with them bragging to their friends.

(08-22-2013 09:03 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-22-2013 08:58 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(08-22-2013 08:55 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-22-2013 08:52 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(08-22-2013 08:47 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Many people have died to make sure we have the vote, wonder what they would
think about simply making sure people are not voting multiple times.

It is a felony to vote multiple times. Anyone caught doing so is charged and if convicted faces serious consequences. People doing this are few and far between.

People GETTING CAUGHT doing it are few and far between. But with no reliable method of detection, that says nothing about how many are doing it.

If at was happening a lot then more people would get caught.

How would they get caught? What detection mechanisms exist?

People don't catch themselves. There has to be some way to catch them. What is it?

Well actually they do. People are notoriously bad about getting themselves caught. They tend to run their mouths.

If someone tries to absentee vote and vote on election day they get caught because their name has already been checked.

Granted someone conceivably could register in two separate counties or states and vote twice and possibly get away with it. But do you really think that happens very often? Again it is a felony.

If you really suspect people are doing this you don't even need to leave your house. If you have a name of a college student that grew up in Wayne County and now is attending ASU and living in Boone. You just go to the state B of E website, type in his name and Wayne county, if he is registered in Wayne you can even see if he voted during the last election. Then go to Watauga County and check for his name. If he is registered there as well and he voted in the last election call the DA in Wayne or Watauga County, or call the local paper, or call Hannity or O'Reilly. It would take all of a hour from start to finish. There are people out that that do this and they don't come up any evidence to speak of. I would never say never but rare is a word I would use.

The ones who get caught pretty much catch themselves, because running their mouths is about the only way to do so.

Your hypothetical starts with "If you have the name...." How did you get that name?

(08-22-2013 10:00 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The ones who get caught pretty much catch themselves, because running their mouths is about the only way to do so.

Your hypothetical starts with "If you have the name...." How did you get that name?

That is simple. The registration rolls are public record. I've looked up plenty of people to see if they have been a regular voter, what party they belong to, things like that. You would just need to cross check two or more counties. If Joe lived in Goldsboro and moved to Boone the most logical way that Joe could vote twice would be by knowing that Wayne County hadn't purged his name from the rolls yet and he had registered in Watauga when he moved there. Heck, I'm sure some of the more technologically inclined politically active folks would be able to set up a computer to run a cross check in all 100 NC counties.

But it is really wasted energy to do this, unless it would serve to reassure those that fear this is a real problem. All this voter fraud many speak of to justify photo ID has been shown to be virtually nonexistent. We have had groups to comb over the rolls looking for all these phantom voters. They present this long list of dead voters, illegal voters, multiple times voters to election officials with a big media production. Then when the investigation is complete they find that there were no illegal votes.

(08-22-2013 11:11 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(08-22-2013 10:00 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The ones who get caught pretty much catch themselves, because running their mouths is about the only way to do so.
Your hypothetical starts with "If you have the name...." How did you get that name?

That is simple. The registration rolls are public record. I've looked up plenty of people to see if they have been a regular voter, what party they belong to, things like that. You would just need to cross check two or more counties. If Joe lived in Goldsboro and moved to Boone the most logical way that Joe could vote twice would be by knowing that Wayne County hadn't purged his name from the rolls yet and he had registered in Watauga when he moved there. Heck, I'm sure some of the more technologically inclined politically active folks would be able to set up a computer to run a cross check in all 100 NC counties.
But it is really wasted energy to do this, unless it would serve to reassure those that fear this is a real problem. All this voter fraud many speak of to justify photo ID has been shown to be virtually nonexistent. We have had groups to comb over the rolls looking for all these phantom voters. They present this long list of dead voters, illegal voters, multiple times voters to election officials with a big media production. Then when the investigation is complete they find that there were no illegal votes.

You're not going to find it by combing over the rolls. At least not without a disproportionate amount of effort. Even a significant fraud would be like finding a needle in a haystack going that way. You might find it with computers if databases were compatible, but between states they typically aren't, and even between counties within a state they may not be. And obviously if the voter registers in two different states you can search the NC database until the cows come home and that will produce nothing.

(08-22-2013 11:18 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-22-2013 11:11 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(08-22-2013 10:00 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The ones who get caught pretty much catch themselves, because running their mouths is about the only way to do so.
Your hypothetical starts with "If you have the name...." How did you get that name?

That is simple. The registration rolls are public record. I've looked up plenty of people to see if they have been a regular voter, what party they belong to, things like that. You would just need to cross check two or more counties. If Joe lived in Goldsboro and moved to Boone the most logical way that Joe could vote twice would be by knowing that Wayne County hadn't purged his name from the rolls yet and he had registered in Watauga when he moved there. Heck, I'm sure some of the more technologically inclined politically active folks would be able to set up a computer to run a cross check in all 100 NC counties.
But it is really wasted energy to do this, unless it would serve to reassure those that fear this is a real problem. All this voter fraud many speak of to justify photo ID has been shown to be virtually nonexistent. We have had groups to comb over the rolls looking for all these phantom voters. They present this long list of dead voters, illegal voters, multiple times voters to election officials with a big media production. Then when the investigation is complete they find that there were no illegal votes.

You're not going to find it by combing over the rolls. At least not without a disproportionate amount of effort. Even a significant fraud would be like finding a needle in a haystack going that way. You might find it with computers if databases were compatible, but between states they typically aren't, and even between counties within a state they may not be. And obviously if the voter registers in two different states you can search the NC database until the cows come home and that will produce nothing.

I think you are making it too complicated. Lets say the GOP in Watauga County NC thinks some ASU students are voting twice. Get a list of 50 students that voted and listed an address either on campus or in housing around campus. Then ask around and see where the lived before. The campus chapter of the Young Republicans would have plenty of members willing to ask around and find out where they moved from. Joe lived in Charlotte, Mary in Knoxville, and Sally in Goldsboro. Then look them up and see if they are still registered there and if the voted. It isn't that difficult. If someone really thinks they are cheating check it out.

(08-23-2013 10:53 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  I think you are making it too complicated. Lets say the GOP in Watauga County NC thinks some ASU students are voting twice. Get a list of 50 students that voted and listed an address either on campus or in housing around campus. Then ask around and see where the lived before. The campus chapter of the Young Republicans would have plenty of members willing to ask around and find out where they moved from. Joe lived in Charlotte, Mary in Knoxville, and Sally in Goldsboro. Then look them up and see if they are still registered there and if the voted. It isn't that difficult. If someone really thinks they are cheating check it out.

And I think you are making it way too simple. What is needed is some kind of systemic control. The election officials are supposed to police that themselves, not wait on some citizen to do all the work for them.

You'd bark up a lot of wrong trees going your way. Which does absolutely nothing to indicate that there aren't abuses.

(08-23-2013 11:13 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-23-2013 10:53 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  I think you are making it too complicated. Lets say the GOP in Watauga County NC thinks some ASU students are voting twice. Get a list of 50 students that voted and listed an address either on campus or in housing around campus. Then ask around and see where the lived before. The campus chapter of the Young Republicans would have plenty of members willing to ask around and find out where they moved from. Joe lived in Charlotte, Mary in Knoxville, and Sally in Goldsboro. Then look them up and see if they are still registered there and if the voted. It isn't that difficult. If someone really thinks they are cheating check it out.

And I think you are making it way too simple. What is needed is some kind of systemic control. The election officials are supposed to police that themselves, not wait on some citizen to do all the work for them.

You'd bark up a lot of wrong trees going your way. Which does absolutely nothing to indicate that there aren't abuses.

I don't think that it is a problem. I think the incidents of people voting twice are very few and far between. I'm just offering a way for someone that believes otherwise to investigate for themselves and maybe prove me wrong. You don't deny the vote to someone simply because you can think of a way someone can abuse the system. It is a felony to vote twice and that is pretty good incentive to prevent some misguided person from doing it. On top of that is the fact that an individual voting more than once isn't a productive way to try and manipulate an election outcome. It just doesn't happen to any significant degree.

(08-23-2013 11:34 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  I don't think that it is a problem. I think the incidents of people voting twice are very few and far between. I'm just offering a way for someone that believes otherwise to investigate for themselves and maybe prove me wrong. You don't deny the vote to someone simply because you can think of a way someone can abuse the system. It is a felony to vote twice and that is pretty good incentive to prevent some misguided person from doing it. On top of that is the fact that an individual voting more than once isn't a productive way to try and manipulate an election outcome. It just doesn't happen to any significant degree.

We're not getting anywhere going back and forth on this. Unless you have something different to add, what's the point of just saying the same thing over and over?

It's like there's a road where the cops don't patrol. At the end of the year, there were no speeding tickets issued on that road. Does that mean that nobody ever exceeded the speed limit? Of course not. That's really all you've got.

And this idea that private citizens can somehow police the process is absurd. Private citizens have real lives to lead. I don't have the time to take X million voters in NC or TX and parse through to see who might have voted twice. What you are saying is that if I know somebody did it, then it is fairly easy to accumulate the information to prove it. But what you haven't provided is any reasonable way to get the information in the first place. It's the authorities who are supposed to police it. And finding out after the fact that people voted illegally does virtually nothing, since the secret ballot pretty much ensures that once that vote is cast it will remain.

Someone looking to vote multiple times isn't likely to use their real name to vote. They would be one of the thousands of people "caught" every year voting while dead or voting as a fictional character. The reason you can't catch people is that John Smith at 345 Happy St didn't often vote twice. He voted once as John Smith, once as John Jones at 567 Sad Lane who died last year and once as Mickey Mouse. "Bragging to your friends" isn't generally viewed in court as "beyond a reasonable doubt". Robert often claims on here to have voted more than once.

You keep saying that you think the incidence of people is few and far between. A simple google search shows tens of thousands of times that dead people have voted in recent elections. As we can assume that they didn't actually do so, that is tens of thousands of times that SOMEONE has voted twice. How, without positive ID, are we going to catch those people?

(08-23-2013 11:47 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  And this idea that private citizens can somehow police the process is absurd. Private citizens have real lives to lead. I don't have the time to take X million voters in NC or TX and parse through to see who might have voted twice. What you are saying is that if I know somebody did it, then it is fairly easy to accumulate the information to prove it. But what you haven't provided is any reasonable way to get the information in the first place. It's the authorities who are supposed to police it. And finding out after the fact that people voted illegally does virtually nothing, since the secret ballot pretty much ensures that once that vote is cast it will remain.

True The Vote has found while examining just 2 states, IIRC was Maryland and Florida, that there were over 170 cases of people voting twice, once in each state. Voter ID has no effect on that. The fact is that our system was set up for "a moral and just people" and as such, our elections are set up as sort of an honor system which is totally unable to deal with less than honorable people to whom voting means power over others. Those who wish to vote multiple times can and are pretty certain that nothing will happen and they won't be discovered. The dems certainly know this.

I heard a story, from a reasonably knowledgeable source but no way to confirm if it's true, that one of the attorneys was meeting with some of the people in Florida who had "mistakenly" voted for I think it was Pat Buchanan on the butterfly ballots. The attorney was explaining to them the difficulty of changing the results of secret ballots once they have been punched. It's virtually impossible to prove that this particular ballot should have been cast for somebody else if it is truly a secret ballot. So the story goes, some of the voters said, "But it's easy to prove we didn't intend to vote that way. Just look at the precincts where we voted back home in Westchester County, where we clearly voted for Gore and not Buchanan." The attorney had to explain to them why this was not a good line of argument to pursue.

To be clear, I can't verify this, but it just seemed to fit the direction this is going. If true, it would not be as easy to prove as dawg claims. And you could run up a lot of time and expense chasing down rabbit trails like this if it's not true. I'm not saying it's true, except that it is true that I heard the story.