(08-03-2013 07:52 PM)oldtiger Wrote:  

(08-03-2013 07:13 PM)banker Wrote:  The problem is that too many of you are hanging on to the illusion that your team currently plays, or has at some point played, or someday will play, at the highest level of FBS football. I got bad news for you, you don't, you haven't, and you won't.

You can talk about teams like VT, FSU and even Boise. Problem is VT and FSU made their move before the current reality of college football. Boise is a great story, but even with all they have accomplished they are in the Mountain West firmly on the outside lookin in.

The only school that has really moved up is Louisville. They have a luxuries none of the rest of us have. They are in a major city with no professional sports, in a state without a dominant flagship state college football program. They already had a world class basketball program with a long tradition and multiple national championships. They have Fortune 500 companies in their city that pour millions into the sports program.

Look at the P5 teams, your school does not look like them. Sure, you have the Wakes, Dukes, Vandys etc. but they are grandfathered in. Lucky break for them.

I'm not some P5 homer, I hate the cartel, I hate the fact that wvu gets a grossly disproportionate amount of state funding. However, I also realize that there are certain realities.

So, just for conversation; I'd be interested in why Marshall worked so hard to get out of 1AA/FCS if fans are willing to take a big step back into a situation that's only marginally better.

I can't answer that question. College Football was different back then.

(08-03-2013 07:52 PM)oldtiger Wrote:  

(08-03-2013 07:13 PM)banker Wrote:  The problem is that too many of you are hanging on to the illusion that your team currently plays, or has at some point played, or someday will play, at the highest level of FBS football. I got bad news for you, you don't, you haven't, and you won't.

You can talk about teams like VT, FSU and even Boise. Problem is VT and FSU made their move before the current reality of college football. Boise is a great story, but even with all they have accomplished they are in the Mountain West firmly on the outside lookin in.

The only school that has really moved up is Louisville. They have a luxuries none of the rest of us have. They are in a major city with no professional sports, in a state without a dominant flagship state college football program. They already had a world class basketball program with a long tradition and multiple national championships. They have Fortune 500 companies in their city that pour millions into the sports program.

Look at the P5 teams, your school does not look like them. Sure, you have the Wakes, Dukes, Vandys etc. but they are grandfathered in. Lucky break for them.

I'm not some P5 homer, I hate the cartel, I hate the fact that wvu gets a grossly disproportionate amount of state funding. However, I also realize that there are certain realities.

So, just for conversation; I'd be interested in why Marshall worked so hard to get out of 1AA/FCS if fans are willing to take a big step back into a situation that's only marginally better.

We didn't, but I realize that things have changed dramatically since 1997 and its only going to change more. I don't like it, wish it wasn't happening, but it is. The top programs have always had athletic budgets that are about three times bigger than our schools. That used to mean about a $20MM gap, now that means about a $60MM gap. They have created a monster that needs to be fed. In order to feed it they have to concentrate revenue.

My guess is there are a few more spots. I believe that they will settle on 5 conferences and that each will have to have 14 teams, and Notre Dame will have to join one. That's 70 teams with no possibility of any other team ever being added. I am not choosing to "drop a level", but merely recognizing that it is going to happen. If it is going to happen then how do you make the best of it? If you don't like it and want to cheer for a team in top level you can always go buy a Vols hat, an Ole Miss t-shirt, or a UNC jacket I guess because that will be your only option. As for me, I'll stick with Marshall and make the best of it.

(08-03-2013 08:57 PM)banker Wrote:  

(08-03-2013 07:52 PM)oldtiger Wrote:  

(08-03-2013 07:13 PM)banker Wrote:  The problem is that too many of you are hanging on to the illusion that your team currently plays, or has at some point played, or someday will play, at the highest level of FBS football. I got bad news for you, you don't, you haven't, and you won't.

You can talk about teams like VT, FSU and even Boise. Problem is VT and FSU made their move before the current reality of college football. Boise is a great story, but even with all they have accomplished they are in the Mountain West firmly on the outside lookin in.

The only school that has really moved up is Louisville. They have a luxuries none of the rest of us have. They are in a major city with no professional sports, in a state without a dominant flagship state college football program. They already had a world class basketball program with a long tradition and multiple national championships. They have Fortune 500 companies in their city that pour millions into the sports program.

Look at the P5 teams, your school does not look like them. Sure, you have the Wakes, Dukes, Vandys etc. but they are grandfathered in. Lucky break for them.

I'm not some P5 homer, I hate the cartel, I hate the fact that wvu gets a grossly disproportionate amount of state funding. However, I also realize that there are certain realities.

So, just for conversation; I'd be interested in why Marshall worked so hard to get out of 1AA/FCS if fans are willing to take a big step back into a situation that's only marginally better.

We didn't, but I realize that things have changed dramatically since 1997 and its only going to change more. I don't like it, wish it wasn't happening, but it is. The top programs have always had athletic budgets that are about three times bigger than our schools. That used to mean about a $20MM gap, now that means about a $60MM gap. They have created a monster that needs to be fed. In order to feed it they have to concentrate revenue.

My guess is there are a few more spots. I believe that they will settle on 5 conferences and that each will have to have 14 teams, and Notre Dame will have to join one. That's 70 teams with no possibility of any other team ever being added. I am not choosing to "drop a level", but merely recognizing that it is going to happen. If it is going to happen then how do you make the best of it? If you don't like it and want to cheer for a team in top level you can always go buy a Vols hat, an Ole Miss t-shirt, or a UNC jacket I guess because that will be your only option. As for me, I'll stick with Marshall and make the best of it.

Exactly. It's going to happen anyway so might as well make the best of it.

Cheer for your local school and then cheer for your favorite major conference.

It's what I've been doing since I was a teen.

Lets face it. Bowl games are moving towards being worthless. Sponsors are leaving. Teams are having trouble selling tix.
The P5 model must have its warts exposed.
We need undefeated champions from the G5. Every year.
We need to beat the P5 teams we play.
We need the public ie sports writers to demand our inclusion.
We need the P5 to have SEC winners every year.
We need multiple SEC teams every yr.
we need the title(?) game to feature the same 2 SEC teams every yr.
We need the P5 to self implode.
Then we need a true NCAA National Championship Playoff!

Sorry Fitbud, but I got no stomach for the "have your team and your other team in a big conference" crowd. Nobody can serve 2 masters, I'm 100% Marshall.

(08-04-2013 07:29 AM)notnow Wrote:  Lets face it. Bowl games are moving towards being worthless. Sponsors are leaving. Teams are having trouble selling tix.
The P5 model must have its warts exposed.
We need undefeated champions from the G5. Every year.
We need to beat the P5 teams we play.
We need the public ie sports writers to demand our inclusion.
We need the P5 to have SEC winners every year.
We need multiple SEC teams every yr.
we need the title(?) game to feature the same 2 SEC teams every yr.
We need the P5 to self implode.
Then we need a true NCAA National Championship Playoff!

this we unfortunately now must have

(08-04-2013 09:41 AM)banker Wrote:  Sorry Fitbud, but I got no stomach for the "have your team and your other team in a big conference" crowd. Nobody can serve 2 masters, I'm 100% Marshall.

I disagree. I am perfectly happy cheering for UTEP vs. everyone, CUSA vs. everyone except UTEP, and PAC 12 vs. everyone except CUSA and UTEP.


Don't get me wrong. I don't mind that you are 100% Marshall. I guess I'm just more of a football fan than just a homer.

(08-04-2013 09:41 AM)banker Wrote:  Sorry Fitbud, but I got no stomach for the "have your team and your other team in a big conference" crowd. Nobody can serve 2 masters, I'm 100% Marshall.

Bingo.

I like all football, but I have one team.

I am surprised by the number of people that are prepared to take what scraps are being tossed our way and crawl back into our hole. what we're seeing from the centers of priviege is classic behavior for those on the lower edge of what they perceive to be the privileged class; the first thing they want to do is shut down access. the first thing they want to do is build a barrier between them and the rest of the universe so their position can't be threatened. because if someone does manage to climb the wall, either someone is expelled, or everyone loses a little something.

just look at all the troube Boise caused during realignment. you think that made the lower rungs of the upper class happy? Hell, no. Gaddam upstarts in a lousy, poor state had no business keeping the dustier elites in turmoil, worrying about their shaky futures. who are those inbred mountain people to get all that attention?

it is no coincidence that the reaction of the special kids follows so closely upon the heels of a school busting the bcs. many of us seem to be missing that. They're threatened. But not for any of the reasons they are peddling.

(08-04-2013 12:19 PM)EagleX Wrote:  I am surprised by the number of people that are prepared to take what scraps are being tossed our way and crawl back into our hole. what we're seeing from the centers of priviege is classic behavior for those on the lower edge of what they perceive to be the privileged class; the first thing they want to do is shut down access. the first thing they want to do is build a barrier between them and the rest of the universe so their position can't be threatened. because if someone does manage to climb the wall, either someone is expelled, or everyone loses a little something.

just look at all the troube Boise caused during realignment. you think that made the lower rungs of the upper class happy? Hell, no. Gaddam upstarts in a lousy, poor state had no business keeping the dustier elites in turmoil, worrying about their shaky futures. who are those inbred mountain people to get all that attention?

it is no coincidence that the reaction of the special kids follows so closely upon the heels of a school busting the bcs. many of us seem to be missing that. They're threatened. But not for any of the reasons they are peddling.

EagleX, I understand how you feel, but what you are not acknowledging is that they can, and have, put up the walls to protect themselves. The only thing we are waiting on is the final form and announcement.

Who's going to fight the battle? You're state legislature, or US representatives? You think they are going to do anything to harm your two SEC schools for USM's benefit? You think Alabama's Senators are going to help UAB, WV's are going to help Marshall, Texas' will go against the wishes of Texas, A&M, Tech, Baylor, etc to help Rice?

Reality is its like having a job that pays $50k a year but wanting to live in a neighborhood with $5MM houses. You may want to live there, but they aren't going to let you have a lot and put a trailor on it. Plus now they have sold the last lot so even if you win the lottery you aren't getting in.

(08-04-2013 01:07 PM)banker Wrote:  EagleX, I understand how you feel, but what you are not acknowledging is that they can, and have, put up the walls to protect themselves. The only thing we are waiting on is the final form and announcement.

Who's going to fight the battle? You're state legislature, or US representatives? You think they are going to do anything to harm your two SEC schools for USM's benefit? You think Alabama's Senators are going to help UAB, WV's are going to help Marshall, Texas' will go against the wishes of Texas, A&M, Tech, Baylor, etc to help Rice?

Reality is its like having a job that pays $50k a year but wanting to live in a neighborhood with $5MM houses. You may want to live there, but they aren't going to let you have a lot and put a trailor on it. Plus now they have sold the last lot so even if you win the lottery you aren't getting in.

I don't know who is going to fight the battle. I'm not even sure we need a "someone" to fight the battle -- as long as someone crashes the party fairly regularly, it would appear to me that the walls aren't insurmountable.

I am supremely confident of one thing; the only way to make the situation in college athletics worse would be to get the freaking government involved. the way to fix something that is all fuxxored is NOT to put it under the control (and "control" is precisely what it would be) of the thing that invented fuxxored.

also, generally, when given a choice between "I don't know" and "I give up", I will take "I don't know" every time.

(08-04-2013 01:07 PM)banker Wrote:  EagleX, I understand how you feel, but what you are not acknowledging is that they can, and have, put up the walls to protect themselves. The only thing we are waiting on is the final form and announcement.

Who's going to fight the battle? You're state legislature, or US representatives? You think they are going to do anything to harm your two SEC schools for USM's benefit? You think Alabama's Senators are going to help UAB, WV's are going to help Marshall, Texas' will go against the wishes of Texas, A&M, Tech, Baylor, etc to help Rice?

Reality is its like having a job that pays $50k a year but wanting to live in a neighborhood with $5MM houses. You may want to live there, but they aren't going to let you have a lot and put a trailor on it. Plus now they have sold the last lot so even if you win the lottery you aren't getting in.

Until the NCAA formally announces that they'll split Division 1 into three subdivisions rather than the current FBS and FCS, we should stand steadfast against any notion of having our own tournament. If you wanna walk off with your tail between your legs and give in to what you assume to be the inevitable, that's your right. Regardless of what's happening right now though, we're all still FBS at the current time, and to entertain thoughts of holding our own tournament would be to preemptively throw in the towel before the final whistle has sounded. If you're gonna go down, at least go down fighting! Show some backbone.

NO

THis total BS

Playing at any level other than 1A = 1aa

no one has ever given a crap about 1aa football

most fans even refer it to division 2, When WKU won the 1AA football championship in 2002.
Most of the state of Kentucky even radio announcers said we were Div. 2 champs.

When your football team is in division 1AA the perception to the casual fan
is that you are division 2 in all your sports.

There is no money, recognition or media attention in any of the lower divisions
These are the reasons the good programs have invested millions to upgrade to divison 1A

Also no reason to even discuss this. All 10 conferences just signed a 12 year playoff agreement.
One I might add they did not want changed in any way to keep the playoffs at 4 teams for all
12 years. So we are all FBS, both the P5 and the G5 to 2025. now play ball

(08-04-2013 02:08 PM)Hilltop75 Wrote:  NO

THis total BS

Playing at any level other than 1A = 1aa

no one has ever given a crap about 1aa football

most fans even refer it to division 2, When WKU won the 1AA football championship in 2002.
Most of the state of Kentucky even radio announcers said we were Div. 2 champs.

When your football team is in division 1AA the perception to the casual fan
is that you are division 2 in all your sports.

There is no money, recognition or media attention in any of the lower divisions
These are the reasons the good programs have invested millions to upgrade to divison 1A

Also no reason to even discuss this. All 10 conferences just signed a 12 year playoff agreement.
One I might add they did not want changed in any way to keep the playoffs at 4 teams for all
12 years. So we are all FBS, both the P5 and the G5 to 2025. now play ball

(08-04-2013 11:09 AM)Smaug Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 09:41 AM)banker Wrote:  Sorry Fitbud, but I got no stomach for the "have your team and your other team in a big conference" crowd. Nobody can serve 2 masters, I'm 100% Marshall.

Bingo.

I like all football, but I have one team.

Yes, using Fitbud's explanation a few posts ago, I'd have to put together a spreadsheet to see who I was supposed to be cheering for each week. Of course, if I was a UTEP fan, I wouldn't have I Root For: PAC12 in my profile either....but I'm pretty simple minded as most of you know.

I'm a one team/one program/one city kind of guy.

(08-04-2013 03:10 PM)oldtiger Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 11:09 AM)Smaug Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 09:41 AM)banker Wrote:  Sorry Fitbud, but I got no stomach for the "have your team and your other team in a big conference" crowd. Nobody can serve 2 masters, I'm 100% Marshall.

Bingo.

I like all football, but I have one team.

Yes, using Fitbud's explanation a few posts ago, I'd have to put together a spreadsheet to see who I was supposed to be cheering for each week. Of course, if I was a UTEP fan, I wouldn't have I Root For: PAC12 in my profile either....but I'm pretty simple minded as most of you know.

I'm a one team/one program/one city kind of guy.

I'm flirting with pissing off a good many people, but there is no way anyone would think that way if they had graduated from a university with any sort of a football program. it's just inconceivable.

(08-04-2013 01:07 PM)banker Wrote:  EagleX, I understand how you feel, but what you are not acknowledging is that they can, and have, put up the walls to protect themselves. The only thing we are waiting on is the final form and announcement.

Who's going to fight the battle? You're state legislature, or US representatives? You think they are going to do anything to harm your two SEC schools for USM's benefit? You think Alabama's Senators are going to help UAB, WV's are going to help Marshall, Texas' will go against the wishes of Texas, A&M, Tech, Baylor, etc to help Rice?

Reality is its like having a job that pays $50k a year but wanting to live in a neighborhood with $5MM houses. You may want to live there, but they aren't going to let you have a lot and put a trailor on it. Plus now they have sold the last lot so even if you win the lottery you aren't getting in.

Isn't there a better analogy.......we currently own a home in the neighborhood, are paying our taxes, and keeping the property up to neighborhood requirements, but they are asking the city council to have us evicted?

I wouldn't define any of us a living in a trailer or wanting to move a trailer into the neighborhood.

Isn't jumping to a minor league playoff before we're forced to (if indeed we ever are) an overreaction?

I don't have all the answers; none of us do. I just don't want to throw in the towel before it's required.....if it ever is.

"separate but equal". I guess we should be happy we're allowed to use the same rest rooms and drink from the same water fountains. just don't get caught messin' with their wimmins.

(08-04-2013 03:17 PM)EagleX Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 03:10 PM)oldtiger Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 11:09 AM)Smaug Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 09:41 AM)banker Wrote:  Sorry Fitbud, but I got no stomach for the "have your team and your other team in a big conference" crowd. Nobody can serve 2 masters, I'm 100% Marshall.

Bingo.

I like all football, but I have one team.

Yes, using Fitbud's explanation a few posts ago, I'd have to put together a spreadsheet to see who I was supposed to be cheering for each week. Of course, if I was a UTEP fan, I wouldn't have I Root For: PAC12 in my profile either....but I'm pretty simple minded as most of you know.

I'm a one team/one program/one city kind of guy.

I'm flirting with pissing off a good many people, but there is no way anyone would think that way if they had graduated from a university with any sort of a football program. it's just inconceivable.

Dammit if you boys ain't doin' her some good...made me spill my beer on my big fat belly!!!

to X and OT for saying what needs to be said in my kinda way!