(07-29-2013 11:09 AM)ODU Oldtimer Wrote:  

(07-29-2013 08:53 AM)wh49er Wrote:  We have even played a game yet, pretty hard to tell.

The desire and perception for success with all three is very high. I think there will be key factors that will lead to a more rapid ascension. In order for each school to enhance their branding and visibility, they will need to excel in the following areas.

1) Recruiting: In the next 3 years all three schools will have to win the recruiting battles against the upper G5 schools to impress.... high school coaches, 3 star or better recruits and the pundits. There will be many on and off the field PR battles that will have to be won. Each of these factors will enable all three or maybe one to "leapfrog" into the upper echelon of C-USA.

2) Stadium Expansion: For ODU and Charlotte, they will need a vision and plan to reach a quick stadium expansion, "perception is reality". Both schools will have to expand fast to be a factor for media, recruits and more eyes on the program. Stadiums between 35K - 40K is a must. When recruiting services survey prospects they list the top reasons they select a school as......

a) Schools reputation (degree program of interest)
b) Coach and staff
c) Playing time and how they fit into the overall program
d) Facilities from stadium, training, athletic resources
e) Comfort zone of location climate, campus appeal
f) Football programs reputation, history, potential, and traditions
g) Individual opportunities for exposure (TV, media, families ability to attend games)
h) Interaction with other students, football team and peers

Now it comes down to how well the staff can sell the Schools vision to the athlete and how he will fit into the overall teams future

3) Support: administrative, financial, media, local political and state legislative assistance.

4) Football Attendance: That's all I need to say on this subject.

5) Scheduling: OOC...to have a more desirable home game schedule, each program will need to accomplish home and home series. This will bring more recognizable programs to campus. Again "perception is reality" to bring in the.... SEC, ACC, and even AAC schools to your facilities (for ODU & UNCC the more eastern Conferences). For UTSA add the PAC, MWC & BIG 12 and naturally none are exclusive to a region. If that is accomplished...this will be a big win for all three programs.

The one constant that is inevitable is "perception is reality", and is the most important factor to the incoming recruits. the public, media, alumni, students and the community.

This will make or break all three of these programs.

[b]ODU, I believe will be at the top ,,,,,Go Monarchs Aim High

I like your breakdown of the criteria. Using the same criteria I think UTSA comes out on top. We already schedule PAC and B12 schools. Our stadium seats enough. Our facilities are growing by the hour. We have no NFL team in San Antonio. We have a coach that has coached guys into the NFL. We have a coach that has won a National Championship. We have a rabid football city that supports us.

The only think that is left to be seen is how well we are able to improve our recruiting over the next 5 years.

We didn't really spend much time in FCS. When we did, it was with walk-ons and freshman/sophomores. My impression is that our recruiting has improved since our first year (as FCS independent), and that our recruiting improved after our second year (after the WAC season). We are in a hotbed of recruiting (South Texas). We are in a major city that loves football, with a great following and full support of the Administration, and the city.

Yep, my un-biased (obviously biased) opinion is that UTSA will be the one that excels.

Quote:Yet you give no reasoning behind your choice which makes you sound even more like a homer even though you say you are objective.

Short and Sweet...

1) Coach Coker
2) AD Lynn Hickey
3) Alamodome
4) San Antonio
5) Texas

Our leadership at UTSA is impeccable. Our football program has seen unprecedented success in the 2 short years of its existence, and will continue to grow at a faster rate than the other schools mentioned because of that leadership, and because of our fan base, the dome, and the fact that we're fortunate enough to be in the recruiting hotbed of Texas.

What about us. We are one year removed from the FCS level.

(07-29-2013 01:00 PM)slow-runner Wrote:  

(07-29-2013 11:09 AM)ODU Oldtimer Wrote:  

(07-29-2013 08:53 AM)wh49er Wrote:  

The desire and perception for success with all three is very high. I think there will be key factors that will lead to a more rapid ascension. The one constant that is inevitable is "perception is reality", and is the most important factor to the incoming recruits. the public, media, alumni, students and the community.

[b]ODU, I believe will be at the top .....Go Monarchs Aim High

UTSA poster...... We have a rabid football city that supports us.

The only think that is left to be seen is how well we are able to improve our recruiting over the next 5 years.

We are in a hotbed of recruiting (South Texas). We are in a major city that loves football, with a great following and full support of the Administration, and the city.

Yep, my un-biased (obviously biased) opinion is that UTSA will be the one that excels.

I see a lot of upside for UTSA. I feel even with the distance between the two schools ODU fans will learn to hate you guys.

No......It will be a great rivalry in the future.

Wishing you success in the future.

Aim High
Go Monarchs

(07-29-2013 01:00 PM)slow-runner Wrote:  We have no NFL team in San Antonio.

Interesting that you see an NFL team as something that would be a liability for your program. I know alot of other fans think this as well.

The Panthers have been one of our biggest assets.

(07-29-2013 09:57 AM)ODUgradstudent Wrote:  It's a little known fact that ECU have a stadium that can fit 50,000. Their fans are much too humble to say as much though, but look it up, it's true.

(07-29-2013 01:37 PM)wh49er Wrote:  

(07-29-2013 01:00 PM)slow-runner Wrote:  We have no NFL team in San Antonio.

Interesting that you see an NFL team as something that would be a liability for your program. I know alot of other fans think this as well.

The Panthers have been one of our biggest assets.

I think that a lot of people see NFL teams as a potential liability because speaking from the perspective of someone who lived in San Antonio for nearly a decade (though I'm in the Houston area now), there's always the potential for divided loyalty. San Antonio has been craving football for some time now now. The Alamodome was built mainly with the intention of drawing an NFL franchise. It never materialized though.

UTSA finally got a football team two years ago, and aside from the loyal Roadrunner faithful who attend our games, we definitely draw some interest from the community as well, perhaps more than we would if San Antonio had that NFL franchise. San Antonio is a beautiful place, but it's also pretty much a blue-collar town, and a lot of your garden variety fans probably wouldn't pay to see both NFL games and UTSA games. With UTSA being the only D1 program in town, the choice is easy, which is good for our attendance.

Glad to see that the Panthers are an asset though for you guys. I'm just not sure whether it would be the same here.

I'm glad we have the smallest budget/revenue of the three. The $20 mil number that keeps getting thrown around doesn't include updated numbers for football and the Title IX sports we will have to bring in. So yeah, we should be in third.

(07-29-2013 01:37 PM)wh49er Wrote:  Interesting that you see an NFL team as something that would be a liability for your program. I know alot of other fans think this as well.

The Panthers have been one of our biggest assets.

You know those things called disposable income and recessions have put a damper in how far a dollar will go. If you have too many competing choices, coupled with the above limitations, it is entirely possible your FBS team will suffer in attendance and media attention.

The owner of the Saints is a benefactor to the University of the Incarnate word - the most recent FCS team in San Antonio. They even named their stadium after him. He's been very generous to UIW.

However, it's one thing to get money and support from an NFL team's owner, and it's another to have your FBS team compete for butts in seats against said owner's NFL team.

Economics and choices: that's why its a liability.

Going to go with UTSA slightly over ODU. Like many have said, I believe all three will be hugely successful but I really like what is happening in San Antonio. I believed those people are starved crazy to have their own college football program and have embraced the RoadRunners.

I like ODU as well and they have definitely proven their committment to Div I football. Will be interesting to see how ODU recruiting improves in CUSA. Charlotte probably has the biggest challenge of the three. Professional sports, UNC, Clemson (closer than UNC and NC St) with a metro population of 2,300,000.

(07-29-2013 01:55 PM)El Dirtybird Wrote:  

(07-29-2013 01:37 PM)wh49er Wrote:  Interesting that you see an NFL team as something that would be a liability for your program. I know alot of other fans think this as well.

The Panthers have been one of our biggest assets.

You know those things called disposable income and recessions have put a damper in how far a dollar will go. If you have too many competing choices, coupled with the above limitations, it is entirely possible your FBS team will suffer in attendance and media attention.

The owner of the Saints is a benefactor to the University of the Incarnate word - the most recent FCS team in San Antonio. They even named their stadium after him. He's been very generous to UIW.

However, it's one thing to get money and support from an NFL team's owner, and it's another to have your FBS team compete for butts in seats against said owner's NFL team.

Economics and choices: that's why its a liability.

I completely understand this but if want to look at it as competing for entertainment dollars, then you would also have to consider the Spurs a threat to your program along with Six Flags, Sea World, etc.

(07-29-2013 02:19 PM)wh49er Wrote:  

(07-29-2013 01:55 PM)El Dirtybird Wrote:  

(07-29-2013 01:37 PM)wh49er Wrote:  Interesting that you see an NFL team as something that would be a liability for your program. I know alot of other fans think this as well.

The Panthers have been one of our biggest assets.

You know those things called disposable income and recessions have put a damper in how far a dollar will go. If you have too many competing choices, coupled with the above limitations, it is entirely possible your FBS team will suffer in attendance and media attention.

The owner of the Saints is a benefactor to the University of the Incarnate word - the most recent FCS team in San Antonio. They even named their stadium after him. He's been very generous to UIW.

However, it's one thing to get money and support from an NFL team's owner, and it's another to have your FBS team compete for butts in seats against said owner's NFL team.

Economics and choices: that's why its a liability.

I completely understand this but if want to look at it as competing for entertainment dollars, then you would also have to consider the Spurs a threat to your program along with Six Flags, Sea World, etc.

That's true, although there's not a direct football correlation. Nevertheless, the more attractions there are, the less money there may be in the budget for UTSA football. One must also consider though that Sea World, Six Flags, the River Walk, and such attractions not only draw visitors to the city, but even play a role in drawing future residents. So in that sense, some of those other attractions, while competing for dollars, can actually benefit UTSA football attendance in the long run. I know for a fact that a lot of the fans we get from competing schools for our home games, don't come because they particularly want to see their school face UTSA, but because of those other attractions they can enjoy while visiting the city.

So when you're talking about things that aren't a strictly football/football correlation, there are other dynamics at play which can still turn the odds in your favor.

(07-29-2013 02:19 PM)wh49er Wrote:  

(07-29-2013 01:55 PM)El Dirtybird Wrote:  

(07-29-2013 01:37 PM)wh49er Wrote:  Interesting that you see an NFL team as something that would be a liability for your program. I know alot of other fans think this as well.

The Panthers have been one of our biggest assets.

You know those things called disposable income and recessions have put a damper in how far a dollar will go. If you have too many competing choices, coupled with the above limitations, it is entirely possible your FBS team will suffer in attendance and media attention.

The owner of the Saints is a benefactor to the University of the Incarnate word - the most recent FCS team in San Antonio. They even named their stadium after him. He's been very generous to UIW.

However, it's one thing to get money and support from an NFL team's owner, and it's another to have your FBS team compete for butts in seats against said owner's NFL team.

Economics and choices: that's why its a liability.

I completely understand this but if want to look at it as competing for entertainment dollars, then you would also have to consider the Spurs a threat to your program along with Six Flags, Sea World, etc.

Good points, but UTSA doesn't compete with Six Flags or Sea World because that's not how consumers consider their choices. As a side note, UTSA's campus is across the highway from Six Flags. UTSA football competes with other sport choices and not necessarily theme parks. Consumer behavior tends to group its choices into categories - sports choices, theme park choices, restaurant choices, shopping choices - and those categories compete.

Luckily the NBA season doesn't go into full swing until late October [at least in SA]. By December the whole city is wondering how the team will be seeded for the playoffs and by then UTSA is at the end of it's season.

I'm not dogging Charlotte's team for getting support from Richardson. If anything, I'm a envious. It's cool. But would I in San Antonio want the local NFL team competing with my Roadrunners for tickets? Proably not.

(07-29-2013 01:12 PM)Volkmar Wrote:  

Quote:Yet you give no reasoning behind your choice which makes you sound even more like a homer even though you say you are objective.

Short and Sweet...

1) Coach Coker
2) AD Lynn Hickey
3) Alamodome
4) San Antonio
5) Texas

Our leadership at UTSA is impeccable. Our football program has seen unprecedented success in the 2 short years of its existence, and will continue to grow at a faster rate than the other schools mentioned because of that leadership, and because of our fan base, the dome, and the fact that we're fortunate enough to be in the recruiting hotbed of Texas.

1)Coach Bobby Wilder
2)Wood Selig
3) Bigger athletic department budget
4) ODU alumni (im sure alumni is what you meant by San Antonio)
5) Hampton Roads recruiting hot bed
See what I did there?
I hear what you're saying but that isn't really that different from ODU. Coach Wilder is a great leader and has done a tremendous job with starting the ODU program. Last Year our team had the #1 offense in the FCS! Pretty impressive for only 4 years old. You say you have a great fan base but the Alamodome seats 65,000 and you averaged 29,000 last year. If you had such a dedicated fan base why didn't you fill up your home stadium more? ODU soldout every home last 4 years. Our stadium only fits 20,000 right now but we are expanding and we have alot more people from this area that would pay for tickets. And you said you had unprecedented success the first 2 years for a program. While I agree you did pretty good for only a 2nd year program in the WAC, ODU's start up was just as impressive. Our athletic budget is alot bigger than yours too. ODU's budget is 66th in Division 1 at $35,000,000. UTSA is 102nd at $22,000,000 and we had that budget at the FCS level. And you do have the Texas recruiting bed I understand that but we have the Hampton Roads in our backyard. Here are just some players that went to the PROs in football from this area:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_peo...a#Football
We even have a top 3 recruiting class so far in CUSA. I do understand its still a long way to go but you Road Runners have only 3 commits right now

I homer-picked ODU and stand by it, but UTSA has a running head start by virtue of playing a mostly-FBS schedule its second season, playing more FBS schools that year than ODU will in this, its fifth season. ODU is probably deeper, but UTSA has more FBS-ready players. Both should be plenty respectable in 5-7 years, and probably sooner than that. Charlotte is just too early to tell, but they certainly have a lot of off-field intangibles to counteract the enigma of their on-field product.

I would love to re-visit this a few years from now because I have a feeling a lot of you UTSA and ODU guys are going to be shocked at the success of the Charlotte program. I readily admit I don't know as much about your programs as you do----but most of you clearly don't know ANYTHING about Charlotte's program, situation or coaching staffs. For example:

Head Coach Brad Lambert - Coached many NFL players as the longtime Def. Coordinator at Wake Forest and maintains very close relationships with many of them, including guys like Aaron Curry who flew himself to Lamberts initial press conference and has volunteered as an assistant for us during the off-season for the last year or more.

Offensive Coordinator - Jeff Mullen was the Off. Coordinator most recently at WVU and is credited with most of Pat White's success (among others). Left during all the coaching turmoil/change at WVU.

Defensive Coordinator - Bruce Tall was d-line coach for many years at Michigan.

We have successful coaches with a TON of BCS and Bowl Game experience. You will learn.

(07-29-2013 05:25 PM)919R Wrote:  I would love to re-visit this a few years from now because I have a feeling a lot of you UTSA and ODU guys are going to be shocked at the success of the Charlotte program. I readily admit I don't know as much about your programs as you do----but most of you clearly don't know ANYTHING about Charlotte's program, situation or coaching staffs. For example:

Head Coach Brad Lambert - Coached many NFL players as the longtime Def. Coordinator at Wake Forest and maintains very close relationships with many of them, including guys like Aaron Curry who flew himself to Lamberts initial press conference and has volunteered as an assistant for us during the off-season for the last year or more.

Offensive Coordinator - Jeff Mullen was the Off. Coordinator most recently at WVU and is credited with most of Pat White's success (among others). Left during all the coaching turmoil/change at WVU.

Defensive Coordinator - Bruce Tall was d-line coach for many years at Michigan.

We have successful coaches with a TON of BCS and Bowl Game experience. You will learn.

We aren't saying that you will never be good at football. Its just hard to project just how much success you are going to have before you even play a game. Know who else who hired "experienced" coach for their startup program, who got fired from their last job? Georgia State. I'm not saying you will do bad but you literally have nothing to base your assumptions off of. Best of luck to your team tho.

I want to say odu but truth up in the air. Odu has done amazing for fcs but utsa did ok too. Their basketball program is a sleeper this yr for ncaa I think. The wbb program is horrible.

Odu we did great for fcs. But we haven't played a down yet for fbs.Well have a measuring stick with ecu. Mbb don't get me started. 2 yrs removed from butler and we hope we can beat anyone and no foul trouble. Well be done. The wbb in two years will be a major contender in cusa and ncaa. Our attendance in womens basketball for ncaa is still one of the top in the nation. Only one other game sold out other then the ted. But we need a bigger stadium and better practice gym.

Utsa needs a new basketball facility. I thought I was at a high school gym in january. But ur working on it. Nice to have the dome but butts in the seats matter. They are equal to us on the manner.

And not to mention coker came to odu to see how to build a startup program. Ur ad is awesome and a good leader.ours meh.so honestly well see. I think utsa and odu will be a great tradition. And I know ur band is leaps better then ours.

Quote: 1)Coach Bobby Wilder
2)Wood Selig
3) Bigger athletic department budget
4) ODU alumni (im sure alumni is what you meant by San Antonio)
5) Hampton Roads recruiting hot bed
See what I did there?
I hear what you're saying but that isn't really that different from ODU. Coach Wilder is a great leader and has done a tremendous job with starting the ODU program. Last Year our team had the #1 offense in the FCS! Pretty impressive for only 4 years old. You say you have a great fan base but the Alamodome seats 65,000 and you averaged 29,000 last year. If you had such a dedicated fan base why didn't you fill up your home stadium more? ODU soldout every home last 4 years. Our stadium only fits 20,000 right now but we are expanding and we have alot more people from this area that would pay for tickets. And you said you had unprecedented success the first 2 years for a program. While I agree you did pretty good for only a 2nd year program in the WAC, ODU's start up was just as impressive. Our athletic budget is alot bigger than yours too. ODU's budget is 66th in Division 1 at $35,000,000. UTSA is 102nd at $22,000,000 and we had that budget at the FCS level. And you do have the Texas recruiting bed I understand that but we have the Hampton Roads in our backyard. Here are just some players that went to the PROs in football from this area:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_peo...a#Football
We even have a top 3 recruiting class so far in CUSA. I do understand its still a long way to go but you Road Runners have only 3 commits right now

Why does it matter how many the Alamodome seats? While I'm impressed that you sold out all your home games in the last 4 years, I doubt that you'd draw another 9-10k even if your stadium had the capacity for it. That's not meant as an insult. I just don't see a 50% increase happening overnight. We set two all-time attendance records for a startup program in our first season btw, and 29K in season two is better than what many long-established programs can vouch for. Must say I'm impressed by your recruiting class though, and by what you've done in the four years since you guys restarted your football program. And yeah, we are running slow in that department at the current time. Not sure why we are, but I trust in our coaches, so I'm not too concerned about that at the moment.

Your athletic budget (and probably nearly every other budget) is bound to be bigger than ours though because your school has been in existence for nearly twice as long. So no surprises there. Bigger budgets certainly help with recruiting btw, and across the board with a range of other things as well. Sorry, but never heard of the Hampton Roads, and it's a stretch to compare that to Texas.

Based upon what you shared though, I'll take back what I said. I now think it'll be a tossup between us and you guys 5-7 years down the road, though it appears you might have us at a slight disadvantage at the present time (but mainly because you're in your 5th year of re-establishing your program, and we're only starting year 3). Seems you guys are legit and I look forward to hopefully playing you next year since you're not on our schedule this season. Interesting that we had one common opponent last year and had very similar results against them. You beat Georgia State 53-27 and we beat 'em 38-14. Should be quite a ride!

(07-29-2013 05:57 PM)Volkmar Wrote:  

Quote: 1)Coach Bobby Wilder
2)Wood Selig
3) Bigger athletic department budget
4) ODU alumni (im sure alumni is what you meant by San Antonio)
5) Hampton Roads recruiting hot bed
See what I did there?
I hear what you're saying but that isn't really that different from ODU. Coach Wilder is a great leader and has done a tremendous job with starting the ODU program. Last Year our team had the #1 offense in the FCS! Pretty impressive for only 4 years old. You say you have a great fan base but the Alamodome seats 65,000 and you averaged 29,000 last year. If you had such a dedicated fan base why didn't you fill up your home stadium more? ODU soldout every home last 4 years. Our stadium only fits 20,000 right now but we are expanding and we have alot more people from this area that would pay for tickets. And you said you had unprecedented success the first 2 years for a program. While I agree you did pretty good for only a 2nd year program in the WAC, ODU's start up was just as impressive. Our athletic budget is alot bigger than yours too. ODU's budget is 66th in Division 1 at $35,000,000. UTSA is 102nd at $22,000,000 and we had that budget at the FCS level. And you do have the Texas recruiting bed I understand that but we have the Hampton Roads in our backyard. Here are just some players that went to the PROs in football from this area:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_peo...a#Football
We even have a top 3 recruiting class so far in CUSA. I do understand its still a long way to go but you Road Runners have only 3 commits right now

Why does it matter how many the Alamodome seats? While I'm impressed that you sold out all your home games in the last 4 years, I doubt that you'd draw about another 10k even if your stadium had the capacity for it. That's not meant as an insult. I just don't see a 50% increase happening overnight. We set two all-time attendance records for a startup program in our first season btw, and 29K in season two is better than what many long-established programs can vouch for.

There's something like a 4,500-person waiting list for season ticket requests right now, which I'm to understand translates to 12-13,000 tickets (presuming people are going to want multiple tickets, which is logical). That's not including would-be season-ticket holders who don't add their names to the list because the wait is intimidating, or new fans drawn in by FBS competition, or new fans drawn in by a new/dramatically improved stadium. It also doesn't factor in the walk-up ticket market, which has never existed for ODU because the only tickets unspoken for are ones returned by visiting teams and occasionally from the student allotment.

ODU attendance going up by 10,000 is all but guaranteed when the facility can accommodate it.