http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/07/27/3...ation.html

I've known all along that this deal was a huge boon to the ACC. What I've never been able to figure out is what the Irish get out of it.

(07-28-2013 01:23 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I've known all along that this deal was a huge boon to the ACC. What I've never been able to figure out is what the Irish get out of it.

Not very hard to come up with a couple things.

What a non-story. This author thinks Notre Dame is the reason the ACC got these bowls and matchups? The ACC got them because it's one of the 5 major conferences and that's the direction those 5 conferences have wanted to go for awhile now. It was going to happen with or without Notre Dame.

(07-28-2013 01:42 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  What a non-story. This author thinks Notre Dame is the reason the ACC got these bowls and matchups? The ACC got them because it's one of the 5 major conferences and that's the direction those 5 conferences have wanted to go for awhile now. It was going to happen with or without Notre Dame.

I don't think the ACC gets the Big Ten's Cap One spot without Notre DAme. The chance of Notre Dame probably also boosts the ACC's payout in the Pinstripe, Gator and Sun Bowls, and the Russell Athletic.

Notre Dame being in the rotation definitely boosted the ACC's bowl credibility. If Notre Dame were "in business for themselves", that would have made it harder for the ACC to secure some of the spots. Notre DAme could have made a bowl alliance with someone else, too.

(07-28-2013 01:23 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I've known all along that this deal was a huge boon to the ACC. What I've never been able to figure out is what the Irish get out of it.

1- Primarily better non-fb affiliation and more non-fb payout

2- Aid with bowl tie ins

3- And to a much lesser priority, late season scheduling help

(07-28-2013 01:23 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I've known all along that this deal was a huge boon to the ACC. What I've never been able to figure out is what the Irish get out of it.

Without a doubt, Notre Dame is getting the best end of this deal. I only hope that in time the ACC will gain some major benefit from this association.

(07-28-2013 05:22 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 01:23 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I've known all along that this deal was a huge boon to the ACC. What I've never been able to figure out is what the Irish get out of it.

Without a doubt, Notre Dame is getting the best end of this deal. I only hope that in time the ACC will gain some major benefit from this association.

I'm just hoping we see some benefit whatsoever.

(07-28-2013 01:42 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  What a non-story. This author thinks Notre Dame is the reason the ACC got these bowls and matchups? The ACC got them because it's one of the 5 major conferences and that's the direction those 5 conferences have wanted to go for awhile now. It was going to happen with or without Notre Dame.

Notre Dame improved the ACC's bowl slots from the Cap One on down. Just compare the slots they had before and after Notre Dame signed on. Huge difference.

(07-28-2013 05:40 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 01:42 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  What a non-story. This author thinks Notre Dame is the reason the ACC got these bowls and matchups? The ACC got them because it's one of the 5 major conferences and that's the direction those 5 conferences have wanted to go for awhile now. It was going to happen with or without Notre Dame.

Notre Dame improved the ACC's bowl slots from the Cap One on down. Just compare the slots they had before and after Notre Dame signed on. Huge difference.

Except you can't do that. That was my whole point.

(07-28-2013 06:27 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 05:40 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 01:42 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  What a non-story. This author thinks Notre Dame is the reason the ACC got these bowls and matchups? The ACC got them because it's one of the 5 major conferences and that's the direction those 5 conferences have wanted to go for awhile now. It was going to happen with or without Notre Dame.

Notre Dame improved the ACC's bowl slots from the Cap One on down. Just compare the slots they had before and after Notre Dame signed on. Huge difference.

Except you can't do that. That was my whole point.

You can. Watch me.

Before, 2010-13, from wikipedia with a few edits by me to turn the clock back to 2010.
#1 The Orange Bowl vs BCS
#2 The Chick-fil-A Bowl versus SEC #5.
#3 The Russell Athletic Bowl versus Big East #2.
#4 The Hyundai Sun Bowl versus Pac-12 #4.
#5 The Belk Bowl versus Big East #3.
#6 The Music City Bowl versus SEC #7.
#7 The AdvoCare V100 Bowl versus MWC #3.
#8 The Military Bowl versus Conference USA #5.
#9 The Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl versus Pac-12 #6.

After, 2014-19, after playoffs:
1. Cap One Bowl when Big Ten is in Orange
2. Russell Athletic vs XII #2
3-6. Pinstripe vs Big Ten mid-tier
3-6. Belk vs SEC mid-tier
3-6. Music City/Gator vs SEC mid-tier
3-6. Sun vs PAC #4 ?
7-10. Military vs AAC #??
7-10. Detroit vs Big 10 lower-tier
7-10. TBA
7-10. TBA

Now you can compare.

I've been saying this for a while now. Notre dame was a genius move on the ACCs part. They got 3 mill more per school (on par with the b12), 5 games a year, and excellent non football sports. not only that but like louisville they are an addition that appeases the 3 competing factions in the ACC (basketball, football, & the BE newcomers).

As for the question of what does ND get? Well look at what they paid. When they made this deal they had 4 ACC/future ACC teams on the schedule that year. They only have to schedule 2-3 more ACC teams than they normally play at in exchange for a home for their non FB sports.

Notre dame so far has been a pretty good investment just from the eyeball standpoint. but i think theres something more to this story behind the scenes.

I think ND is a reason for those bowl tie ins, but not for the reason the article says. I think ND plans on joining the acc and I would go as far to say the acc has a private guarantee from ND that they will join as a football member. The reason why I think this is a lot of things don't add up. The bowl tie ins, the scheduling imbalance of 15 teams, the fact that giving Notre Dame special treatment/half membership is such a slippery slope that could ruin a conference.

I dont know why they havent bit the bullet yet and just joined a conference. but my theory on the whole situation is that not too long ago that ND finally decided that if they were to join a conference it would be the ACC.

the reasons for is that its the most in line with ND values (private schools, bb/football emphasis, east coast proximity) and there are numerous polls out their of ND professors/students/alumni that have the ACC as the 1st choice for conferences. Plus its a conference where ND is the undisputed top dog which feeds their ego. The reasons why ND hasnt joined yet might be due to their NBC contract but i think a more reasonable theory is that this move is to get the ND hardliners used to playing ACC teams.

Notre Dame to the ACC was a genius move on Notre Dame's part. They got to join the club (with full privileges) without paying the standard initiation and got a reduced rate on their monthly dues, while everyone else is paying the full amounts.

The ACC would not be getting 20 million per year if ND wasn't aboard. Period.

bowls are pretty close...

in years where Big Ten doesn't go to the Orange:
2nd- used to be Chick-fil-A vs now Russell Sports
3rd-6th-used to be Russell/Sun/Belk/Music City vs now- Pinstripe/Belk/Music City-Gator/Sun
7th-on- used to be Millitary/Advocare(Independence) vs now Military/Detroit

realistically, it's not a great upgrade. losing the Chick-fil-A is not good. Even playing SEC #5 was still most years a top 15 team. Russell Sports won't be. That difference in bowls more than makes up for the slight upgrades in 3-8. Also for the ACC schools, if ND takes the Russell Sports slot, you'd have the 2nd ACC team going to Pinstripe whereas before they were going to the Chick-fil-A. HUGE dropoff there.

I think Swofford and company are gambling that the new system will eventually force Notre Dame into a conference. If that happens, it's all over on a lot of fronts - particularly in the Battle for New York City. That's why Swofford "let slip" earlier this week that if ND ever joins a conference between now and 2027, by contract it has to be the ACC.

Now, I have no idea if Swofford's plan will work? However, it it does, the ACC is absolutely set more than any other league except the B1G and the SEC.

(07-28-2013 06:41 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 06:27 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 05:40 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 01:42 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  What a non-story. This author thinks Notre Dame is the reason the ACC got these bowls and matchups? The ACC got them because it's one of the 5 major conferences and that's the direction those 5 conferences have wanted to go for awhile now. It was going to happen with or without Notre Dame.

Notre Dame improved the ACC's bowl slots from the Cap One on down. Just compare the slots they had before and after Notre Dame signed on. Huge difference.

Except you can't do that. That was my whole point.

You can. Watch me.

Before, 2010-13, from wikipedia with a few edits by me to turn the clock back to 2010.
#1 The Orange Bowl vs BCS
#2 The Chick-fil-A Bowl versus SEC #5.
#3 The Russell Athletic Bowl versus Big East #2.
#4 The Hyundai Sun Bowl versus Pac-12 #4.
#5 The Belk Bowl versus Big East #3.
#6 The Music City Bowl versus SEC #7.
#7 The AdvoCare V100 Bowl versus MWC #3.
#8 The Military Bowl versus Conference USA #5.
#9 The Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl versus Pac-12 #6.

After, 2014-19, after playoffs:
1. Cap One Bowl when Big Ten is in Orange
2. Russell Athletic vs XII #2
3-6. Pinstripe vs Big Ten mid-tier
3-6. Belk vs SEC mid-tier
3-6. Music City/Gator vs SEC mid-tier
3-6. Sun vs PAC #4 ?
7-10. Military vs AAC #??
7-10. Detroit vs Big 10 lower-tier
7-10. TBA
7-10. TBA

Now you can compare.

Doesn't look like much of a difference.

BTW, the Sun was leapfrogged in the Pac pecking order by Kraft Fight Hunger, who is pumping in a lot more money to go along with the move to the 49ers' new stadium in 2014.

(07-28-2013 08:02 PM)XLance Wrote:  Notre Dame to the ACC was a genius move on Notre Dame's part. They got to join the club (with full privileges) without paying the standard initiation and got a reduced rate on their monthly dues, while everyone else is paying the full amounts.

ND joined the ACC - it's that simple. Some don't want to accept that fact. Lots of ACC schools don't field teams in certain sports - FSU has no men's soccer team, NC State no lacrosse teams, etc., etc. ND's football arrangement means that ND does not get a shot at the ACC title game - something that the detractors forget. The ACC makes almost $18 million dollars when ND makes the Orange Bowl. ND puts ACC sports into Chicago, the states of Indiana and Michigan, etc., etc. There are just 12 - 13 football games a year - however there are 30-40 basketball games and adding ND to the ACC basketball is an excellent move. Especially since UNC is possibly facing a period of sanctions due to a long running cheating scandal.

Why would an ACC school WANT ND to compete for the ACC football title? Why would an ACC team WANT the extra competition when it gets all the good (money) and none of the bad? UNC will make an addition 2-4 million a year by having ND in the ACC, so how is UNC hurt? The last thing UNC football needs is ND in the Coastal Division - after all it's been 32 years since UNC's last ACC football title and having VT, ND, Miami, and GT in the Coastal would mean at least another 30 years without an ACC title.

(For those of you who don't know - when UNC folks complain - NC State folks start looking for the nearby pile of bull ****.)

(07-28-2013 09:18 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 06:41 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 06:27 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 05:40 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 01:42 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  What a non-story. This author thinks Notre Dame is the reason the ACC got these bowls and matchups? The ACC got them because it's one of the 5 major conferences and that's the direction those 5 conferences have wanted to go for awhile now. It was going to happen with or without Notre Dame.

Notre Dame improved the ACC's bowl slots from the Cap One on down. Just compare the slots they had before and after Notre Dame signed on. Huge difference.

Except you can't do that. That was my whole point.

You can. Watch me.

Before, 2010-13, from wikipedia with a few edits by me to turn the clock back to 2010.
#1 The Orange Bowl vs BCS
#2 The Chick-fil-A Bowl versus SEC #5.
#3 The Russell Athletic Bowl versus Big East #2.
#4 The Hyundai Sun Bowl versus Pac-12 #4.
#5 The Belk Bowl versus Big East #3.
#6 The Music City Bowl versus SEC #7.
#7 The AdvoCare V100 Bowl versus MWC #3.
#8 The Military Bowl versus Conference USA #5.
#9 The Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl versus Pac-12 #6.

After, 2014-19, after playoffs:
1. Cap One Bowl when Big Ten is in Orange
2. Russell Athletic vs XII #2
3-6. Pinstripe vs Big Ten mid-tier
3-6. Belk vs SEC mid-tier
3-6. Music City/Gator vs SEC mid-tier
3-6. Sun vs PAC #4 ?
7-10. Military vs AAC #??
7-10. Detroit vs Big 10 lower-tier
7-10. TBA
7-10. TBA

Now you can compare.

Doesn't look like much of a difference.

BTW, the Sun was leapfrogged in the Pac pecking order by Kraft Fight Hunger, who is pumping in a lot more money to go along with the move to the 49ers' new stadium in 2014.

The matchups are MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better. We don't get into non B-5 teams until our 7-10 bowl level. The Russell and Belk Bowls are huge improvements over the ACC tie-ins. The Orange is greatly improved by a having a top 3 SEC/B10 or ND pick. No more Big East/or Non AQ team. The two bowls against the B10 are big improvements even if they are middling ACC teams versus middling B10 teams. Notre Dame helped with the Gator, Cap One, and the Detroit bowl in particular. The Gator and Cap One both like the possiblity of a good, well traveling ACC team or ND (not BC, WF, etc) and the Detriot/Ford bowl can look at a bad ND team as manna from heaven.

sorry but ACC losing Chick-fil-a is just not replaced by the other matchups. it's just not. There's NO guarantee that ACC will get a team in the Cap One ever in this 6 year deal. SEC or ND get in the Orange, the Cap One gets Big Ten team. Russell Athletic Bowl sounds great, but a lot of the time it'd be the 3rd or lower selection from the Big 12(when they get a sf team and then a Sugar team).

and i'm sorry but ND will NEVER play in the Detroit bowl.

(07-29-2013 12:23 AM)stever20 Wrote:  sorry but ACC losing Chick-fil-a is just not replaced by the other matchups. it's just not. There's NO guarantee that ACC will get a team in the Cap One ever in this 6 year deal. SEC or ND get in the Orange, the Cap One gets Big Ten team. Russell Athletic Bowl sounds great, but a lot of the time it'd be the 3rd or lower selection from the Big 12(when they get a sf team and then a Sugar team).

and i'm sorry but ND will NEVER play in the Detroit bowl.

The highlighted statement is technically true, but misleading. The deal is for the ACC to replace the B1G whenever they are in the Orange Bowl, which is guaranteed to happen 3 times and could happen as many as 5 times (The Orange Bowl will host semi-finals 4 times in 12 years).

So, in the first 6 years there will be 2 semi's in the O.B. and 4 regular bowl games; yes, it IS possible that the SEC and/or Notre Dame takes all 4 of those, but keep this in mind - what you are saying is that the highest ranked SEC team (or Notre Dame) which is not in the playoffs OR the Sugar Bowl will be higher than the highest ranked B1G team which is not in the playoffs or Rose Bowl - all 4 years. Does that sound likely to you?

I would say it's probable that if they would strike this deal for the first 6 years that the deal will be the same for the last 6 as well (I mean, what do you expect to change?)