(07-24-2013 10:46 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote: (07-24-2013 04:53 PM)nzmorange Wrote: (07-24-2013 04:36 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote: (07-24-2013 04:32 PM)nzmorange Wrote: (07-24-2013 04:18 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote: A split would be stupid because how in the world can you categorize who should be allowed in the new system legally? Does Syracuse belong in the same division as most of the SEC, Big 10, Big 12, and schools like ND and USC? Heck no! Syracuse talent wise is more similar to an upper level AAC team and they probably will always be. Like this for example.
Have a 50k stadium and have to have averaged 40k in actual attendance for the last six years. You may as well go ahead and get ready to start dropping a lot of P5 schools.
Have to have been in the top 25 at least once in the last ten years. Once again you better get ready to start dropping P5 schools again.
Academics. There are schools with great academics besides Vanderbilt and Duke and there are many P5 schools with worse academics than G5 schools.
History. If this is a decided factor once again schools like Houston have got more history than many P5 schools.
So no a split would make zero sense because being honest the gap between school like ECU and Kansas football is much more close than Kansas is to Alabama. What we could use is more strict FBS standards so schools can be kicked out. I feel like every school should have a grading system based on attendance and wins. Over a five year period your school MUST have a 50% win percentage or have at least 30k attendance. If you fail to accomplish one or the other you should be placed on a probation to where if you don't accomplish this in five years your gone. This will help get rid of schools who have no business in FBS because if any team goes ten years without going 6-6 or having 30k attendance they need to go.
I'm guessing you didn't watch much football before 2005.
Trust me I know all about Syracuse and their history. They were one of the first schools to actually take advantage of African American players but your just proving my point that there is no way to actually set a standard without getting rid of current P5 schools.
If were going to use history to decide who gets in you have to include schools like Tulane, SMU, Houston, (pretty much everyone in the AAC except a few schools like UCF and Memphis) or it's a double standard. And even then UCF meets standards that some P5 schools don't meet like having a 50k stadium and being in the top 25 in the last ten years.
Apparently you don't. Jim Brown and Ernie Davis were NOT the first black players. That happened in 1892 at Harvard. Jim Brown should have been the first black player to win a Heisman and Ernie Davis actually was the first black player to win a Heisman, and it happened about 70 years after the first African Americans started playing college ball.
None the less, that wasn't my point. Syracuse was winning the BIG EAST (with VT, Miami, WVU, and BC - when BC was good) throughout the 90's and into the mid '00's (2004 was SU's last BIG EAST championship until 2012). Heck, and argument could be made that the best player to ever play in the BIG EAST wore SU orange. In fact, Michael Vick turned SU down because he didn't want to be in a shadow. Saying that SU will never be competitive with most of the BCS reeks of someone who started watching football/following the Orange in 2005. That has nothing to do with anything other than your lack of knowledge regarding northeastern football outside of the last decade and doesn't suggest or prove anything other than that you are either too young to care and/or too far removed from NY to care.
Now go back and read the article that you quoted so you don't look silly.
You keep changing words to take pity on your poor Orange men but please let's talk about with this data since you feel the need to school me on why I think they do not belong if there is a split.
1. Syracuse does not even have a 50k stadium technically. Upper level BCS teams have 70k + stadiums.
2. Recruiting classes are jokes for a P5 team and have been for a long time. No offense but any P5 school who regularly recruits two star recruits (yes I know most schools have them) but THIRTEEN in one class 2011, I'm to lazy to count 2010 but it looks like ten, and elven more of the 16 recruits were two stars or lower in 2009. And you can't blame it on the Big East because you guys are almost at the bottom of the ACC right now. I dare you to find one SEC team with as many two star recruits as Syracuse and I dare you to even find 10 two star recruits on Alabama's entire roster.
3. Record and I'll be fair and start from the modern Era 2000. Since then Syracuse has had about six winning seasons (I'm even counting 6-6 which technically isn't winning) so it's really four, and your fooling yourself if you think a roster full of Sun Belt/Conference USA level talent is going to yield success in the ACC.
So now I ask you what qualifies Syracuse to be classified in the same division as Alabama and not the same as schools like Houston? I'm not saying Syracuse has never been good. My original point is that if there is a split everyone needs to practice what they preach. There's only about 50 teams who should be allowed to split.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syracuse_Orange_football
http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiti...yracuse-14
http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiti...yracuse-14
http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiti...yracuse-14 
1. "Now go back and read the article that you quoted so you don't look silly."
Huh? I didn't quote an article. What are you talking about? I have no idea when we integrated, but I do know that Syracuse didn't even begin football until 7 years after Harvard integrated their team. That's almost a decade later. Even if our first team was integrated, which I doubt was the case, we weren't one of the first to integrate unless you want to get really loose with the meaning of the phrase "one of." To put things in perspective, a decade ago, Syracuse had an invite to the ACC because of our football prowess and boasted THE most profitable athletic department in either the BIG EAST or the ACC, including FSU, Miami, UNC, Clemson, WVU, and so on. Here we are a decade later and you're telling me that we are middle of the road at best. Don't get me wrong, we didn't fiercely hold out, like some of our southern friends, but you pretty clearly vaguely remember watching "The Express" back in '08, and are no trying to pass your slightly distorted memory of that movie off as your knowledge of SU football history (hence the reference to Jim Brown and Ernie Davis).
2. "You keep changing words to take pity on your poor Orange men..."
Huh? No I don't. I said that I think that you started watching college football around 2005. The only deviation that I've made from that point is to expand it to include the possibility that you just don't follow northeastern college football, which is effectively the same thing for the purposes of talking about Syracuse. I still stand by that claim. Given you got the team name wrong, I am fairly confident that I'm right. We aren't the Orange men and we never have been. We were the Orangemen, but we changed that to the Orange in the mid 00's.
Anyway, there's no reason for anyone to take pity on us. Despite coming out of the worst decade in SU football history, we have been .500 over the last 4 years and have won two bowls. Actually, beyond that, our mere presence in a conference caused a bowl with a $2 million payout to switch conference tie-ins and we have an exciting new coach and shiny new facilities. I'm feeling pretty bullish about the future.
3. "Syracuse does not even have a 50k stadium technically. Upper level BCS teams have 70k + stadiums."
Says who? neither Miami nor USC even owns a stadium, let alone a 70k stadium. My info may be wrong, but those two schools are #1 and #2 in being the alumni of current NFL players. They have also accounted for G*d know how many NC's since 1980. Are they not upper level? Oklahoma State is only 60k. They finished #3 in the country two years ago. Are they not upper level? Stanford's football stadium only seats 50k. They've finished in the top 10 for each of the last 3 years. Are they not upper level? Oregon has played in 4 straight BCS bowls, including a national championship. However, their stadium only seats 54,000. Are they not upper level? WVU doesn't have a stadium that will hold 70k. Are they not upper level? Neither Virginia Tech nor Georgia Tech have stadiums that seat 70k. Are they not upper level?
Syracuse is a private school. That means that there is no in-state tuition break. So, unlike public schools, where there is a tuition break for being instate, NY residents are not significantly more inclined to go to Syracuse than out of state residents. That means that a larger portion o four alumni base is located out of state and not in easy driving distance. That is complicated by the fact that many of the SU alumni who are in NY live in the city, which isn't especially close to SU, even without traffic. If you look at the statistics, private schools tend to have smaller crowds/stadiums than similarly-situated public schools. However, they tend to get higher out of market TV ratings. Miami is a GREAT example. They literally have to give tickets away, even when they're good. However, they are TV GOLD. SU's stadium size has no bearing on anything.
4. "I dare you to find one SEC team with as many two star recruits as Syracuse and I dare you to even find 10 two star recruits on Alabama's entire roster."
And I dare you to find a SEC team that beat us last year. For the record we did play a SEC team in their house, and they were ranked when we scheduled them in the preseason. You seem to have an infatuation with Alabama and cherry-picking evidence to make random comparisons, so I'll play ball. I dare you to name a year where Alabama claimed to have won more national titles than Yale (over the course of the program). I dare you to name a year where Alabama claimed to have more Heisman winners than Syracuse (over the course of the program). Recruiting rankings don't matter. They just predict something that matters. However, they are not always right (see Texas, Boise State, TCU....)
5. "your fooling yourself if you think a roster full of Sun Belt/Conference USA level talent is going to yield success in the ACC"
We held our own against the last couple ACC teams that we've played. A 6 man roster went the distance and lost by a score to BC in '10, and a still less than full roster beat Wake in '11 (I think). Before you trash BC or WF, keep in mind that some of the players on that team were on the '06 BC team, which was ranked #1 for a couple weeks in the middle of the '06 season and many of the players on Wake had played in the Orange Bowl. Anyway, both are in our division. Throw in the fact that we beat 2 of the other 3 team in our division in our last match against them (both pretty soundly), and I have absolutely no idea what the basis of your SU can't compete in the ACC claim is.
6. "Record and I'll be fair and start from the modern Era 2000."
Huh? Since when did the modern era begin in 2000? If you are going to arbitrarily pick dates, at least arbitrarily pick dates with some meaning, like last season, the start of the BCS ('98), the year SU joined the BIG EAST, the last 17 years (most recruits are 17), or the last quarter century (25 years just seems like a neat number).
USC went 3-8 in '91, 6-5 in '92, 6-6 in '96, 6-5 in '97, 6-6 in '99, 5-7 in '00, and 6-6 in '01. USC was average 7 of those 10 years. Unless I counted wrong, from '97-'07, 'Bama went 74-61, which is JUST above .500 (it's 54.8%). That's pretty average. Teams have off decades. 10/13 years that you examined were the worst decade in SU program history. You can't pretend like that's the norm.
Don't get me wrong, USC and Alabama > SU when it comes to football, but USC/Bama > Penn State, Tennessee, Florida, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Oklahoma, LSU, FSU, Clemson, Georgia, and so on when it comes to football. The comparison doesn't mean anything. It's like criticizing Duke bball for not winning a championship in the last two years. Duke doesn't have as many basketball championships in the last two years as UL. Does that mean they stink?
7. "So now I ask you what qualifies Syracuse to be classified in the same division as Alabama and not the same as schools like Houston?"
For starters, we both have winning power conference records after 20+ years in a power conference. And no, that's no cherry picking either. It ignores SU's success in the late 80's (i.e. when we went undefeated in '87 and were a play away from winning a share of a national championship)
8. "There's only about 50 teams who should be allowed to split."
Says who?
9. Why are you citing random Syracuse-themed Wikipedia pages and Rivals pages?
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Do you want a new NCAA division for football?
