(07-24-2013 10:42 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote: I am by no means a Tennessee fan in any respect, but lost in the argument is that Tennessee is still the #10 revenue generating school at $106 million and have among the finest facilities in the nation. They just had the worst 3 years in program history, and what was their record? 16-21. Yes, for Tennessee's standards, that is awful, but we are talking the worst span in program history. How many other top tier programs have been through much worse? Considering they are one of the handful of teams that have won a national championship in the last 15 years, they should get a pass until Butch Jones has a chance. Remember it has not been that long ago that Alabama went through the DuBose-Franchione-Price-Shula era, and that lasted 10 years. Bama went 3-8 in 2000 and then 4-9 in 2003. These things happen.
I am not saying that Tennessee cannot come back. Comparing them to Bama though? Bama was able to pull a top tier coach who was then able to pull a top tier of supporting coaches. Tennessee is on a downswing because they havn't been able to pull a top tier coach. Hell, you look across the SEC and it is a virtual All Star line up of College Football Head Coaches and yet Tennessee cannot seem to pull someone of equivalency despite all those numbers that you dropped. Tennessee has one of the best stadiums in all of college football. They have one of the strongest and most loyal of fan followings. They have great facilities and an amazing history and yet.....they continue to have problems in coaching and recruiting. Show me some kind of measurable metric that shows they are likely to turn around this downswing. I do not see anything at all that shows they are likely to turn this around.
They were good in the new world of college football as long as they maintained. They didn't maintain. They fell off and that could be huge because they are at an absolute disadvantage to the more Southern schools who are likely to keep on beating Tennessee down further and further.
I would give Butch Jones a chance except...I just recently saw the rankings on recruiting and it had Tennessee listed fourth. At first glance I was impressed. Fourth in the nation right? Pretty good? Not so fast.
The first ranked program was Michigan, they had 14 commits. Tennessee had 24 commits. Everyone around them in the rankings had much less. That means Tennessee's recruits were of lower value individually and why had so many of them committed so soon? Perhaps those recruits had no offers from schools on the level of Tennessee? That doesn't speak well to the recruiting of Butch Jones.
Fast signings of kids that his contemporaries aren't interested in.
Expect to see Tennessee drop hard and fast in the recruiting rankings as soon other schools start getting those really big signings that still havnt happened.
(07-24-2013 10:42 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote: I am by no means a Tennessee fan in any respect, but lost in the argument is that Tennessee is still the #10 revenue generating school at $106 million and have among the finest facilities in the nation. They just had the worst 3 years in program history, and what was their record? 16-21. Yes, for Tennessee's standards, that is awful, but we are talking the worst span in program history. How many other top tier programs have been through much worse? Considering they are one of the handful of teams that have won a national championship in the last 15 years, they should get a pass until Butch Jones has a chance. Remember it has not been that long ago that Alabama went through the DuBose-Franchione-Price-Shula era, and that lasted 10 years. Bama went 3-8 in 2000 and then 4-9 in 2003. These things happen.
I am not saying that Tennessee cannot come back. Comparing them to Bama though? Bama was able to pull a top tier coach who was then able to pull a top tier of supporting coaches. Tennessee is on a downswing because they havn't been able to pull a top tier coach. Hell, you look across the SEC and it is a virtual All Star line up of College Football Head Coaches and yet Tennessee cannot seem to pull someone of equivalency despite all those numbers that you dropped. Tennessee has one of the best stadiums in all of college football. They have one of the strongest and most loyal of fan followings. They have great facilities and an amazing history and yet.....they continue to have problems in coaching and recruiting. Show me some kind of measurable metric that shows they are likely to turn around this downswing. I do not see anything at all that shows they are likely to turn this around.
They were good in the new world of college football as long as they maintained. They didn't maintain. They fell off and that could be huge because they are at an absolute disadvantage to the more Southern schools who are likely to keep on beating Tennessee down further and further.
I would give Butch Jones a chance except...I just recently saw the rankings on recruiting and it had Tennessee listed fourth. At first glance I was impressed. Fourth in the nation right? Pretty good? Not so fast.
The first ranked program was Michigan, they had 14 commits. Tennessee had 24 commits. Everyone around them in the rankings had much less. That means Tennessee's recruits were of lower value individually and why had so many of them committed so soon? Perhaps those recruits had no offers from schools on the level of Tennessee? That doesn't speak well to the recruiting of Butch Jones.
Fast signings of kids that his contemporaries aren't interested in.
Expect to see Tennessee drop hard and fast in the recruiting rankings as soon other schools start getting those really big signings that still havnt happened.
I can't believe I am defending Tennessee (see my rooting interests), but the Alabama comparison is legitimate. Notice who I mentioned were coaches during the Alabama down decade? It took them 4 swings and misses between Gene Stallings and Nick Saban. Saban, by the way, was not a guaranteed home run when he was hired. Yes, he won a 'ship at LSU, but his stint at Miami was hardly memorable, not unlike when Tennessee hired Lane Kiffin. At the time, that was a big buzz hire. Dooley was then hired at the antithesis of Kiffin; son of a legendary coach with a squeaky clean record. Mike Shula, anybody? His dad dabbled in coaching, I believe.
Butch Jones has secured a five star running back out of Tennessee and the highest rated 4 star. Oregon, Va. Tech, and Arkansas have all had recent runs of very good seasons without consistent top 10 recruiting classes. He has done a great job in a very short time at his last two coaching stops. Let's revisit in a couple of years.
If Butch Jones proves me wrong, then that will be awesome for Tennessee football. That still doesn't mean my theory doesn't have merit. Tennessee IS in a much weaker recruiting territory than Alabama is. Alabama has Alabama. Alabama can recruit Georgia, Florida and Mississippi more effectively. It has a better geographic position to be able to bounce back than Tennessee has. The five star running back is a good catch, if he pans out. Hope they can recruit a good enough offensive line to give him holes to run through in that league. Tennessee really needs a strong quarterback too.
I responded to you over on the SEC board as well. Take a look there at what I layed out.
(07-24-2013 10:46 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote: By the way, if the SEC stays at 14 teams and will go to a 9 game schedule, much of this unbalanced scheduling will disappear. With a 6-2-1 format, they can keep the crossover rivals and rotate everybody else every three years.
The SEC could end the "crossovers" by moving Alabama and Auburn to the east division and Kentucky and Missouri to the west division. Then, like the Big Ten, only one "crossover" game would have to be fixed: Tennessee-Kentucky.
(07-23-2013 08:01 AM)CardFan1 Wrote: Around here Kentucky-Tennessee is a big deal
Around here it isn't, unless it's basketball season...
That was my experience in my six years living in Knoxville ... in football season, Vandy was a bigger deal than Kentucky.
But the only time I talked to my kid last football season ~ he has been living and working in Knoxville for a few years ~ and he mentioned a football game was on The Third Saturday in October. That's a big deal anywhere in East Tennessee, even among people who are not real gung ho college football fans.
I did some graduate schooling in Knoxville and when I was there football was the only sport that mattered - and way down the list was women's basketball. UK stunk up the place in football and was considered a near automatic win (and an easy way to get a ticket was to drive up to Lexington to watch the Vols play there). In basketball, T-B Arena was half empty for most games - unless Kentucky came to town. But in a reversal of travel, our arena was mostly blue for UK-UT games. UT fans seemed to take the winters off in those days.
Vanderbilt was a non-factor in both spectator sports when I was in Knoxville.
At the time - UT was very, very good in football (Johnny Majors/Heath Shuler years) and there were three games you would circle on the conference calendar: Florida, Alabama and Auburn (this was pre-divisional play).
But you must remember, half empty Thompson-Boling Arena is still a little over 10,000 fans. Thompson-Boling's capacity is 21,678. The Vols average much better than a little over 10,000 fans however. Men's basketball is a bit more popular than in your day. I think the average was more like 17,000 last season...
(07-24-2013 04:41 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:
(07-24-2013 10:42 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote: I am by no means a Tennessee fan in any respect, but lost in the argument is that Tennessee is still the #10 revenue generating school at $106 million and have among the finest facilities in the nation. They just had the worst 3 years in program history, and what was their record? 16-21. Yes, for Tennessee's standards, that is awful, but we are talking the worst span in program history. How many other top tier programs have been through much worse? Considering they are one of the handful of teams that have won a national championship in the last 15 years, they should get a pass until Butch Jones has a chance. Remember it has not been that long ago that Alabama went through the DuBose-Franchione-Price-Shula era, and that lasted 10 years. Bama went 3-8 in 2000 and then 4-9 in 2003. These things happen.
I am not saying that Tennessee cannot come back. Comparing them to Bama though? Bama was able to pull a top tier coach who was then able to pull a top tier of supporting coaches. Tennessee is on a downswing because they havn't been able to pull a top tier coach. Hell, you look across the SEC and it is a virtual All Star line up of College Football Head Coaches and yet Tennessee cannot seem to pull someone of equivalency despite all those numbers that you dropped. Tennessee has one of the best stadiums in all of college football. They have one of the strongest and most loyal of fan followings. They have great facilities and an amazing history and yet.....they continue to have problems in coaching and recruiting. Show me some kind of measurable metric that shows they are likely to turn around this downswing. I do not see anything at all that shows they are likely to turn this around.
They were good in the new world of college football as long as they maintained. They didn't maintain. They fell off and that could be huge because they are at an absolute disadvantage to the more Southern schools who are likely to keep on beating Tennessee down further and further.
I would give Butch Jones a chance except...I just recently saw the rankings on recruiting and it had Tennessee listed fourth. At first glance I was impressed. Fourth in the nation right? Pretty good? Not so fast.
The first ranked program was Michigan, they had 14 commits. Tennessee had 24 commits. Everyone around them in the rankings had much less. That means Tennessee's recruits were of lower value individually and why had so many of them committed so soon? Perhaps those recruits had no offers from schools on the level of Tennessee? That doesn't speak well to the recruiting of Butch Jones.
Fast signings of kids that his contemporaries aren't interested in.
Expect to see Tennessee drop hard and fast in the recruiting rankings as soon other schools start getting those really big signings that still havnt happened.
Tennessee's top recruit, 5* RB Jalen Hurd, is a beast. I've seen him play. He's going to be a good one, if he avoids injury. Here's his junior highlights...
(This post was last modified: 07-24-2013 08:28 PM by bitcruncher.)
(07-24-2013 10:46 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote: By the way, if the SEC stays at 14 teams and will go to a 9 game schedule, much of this unbalanced scheduling will disappear. With a 6-2-1 format, they can keep the crossover rivals and rotate everybody else every three years.
The SEC could end the "crossovers" by moving Alabama and Auburn to the east division and Kentucky and Missouri to the west division. Then, like the Big Ten, only one "crossover" game would have to be fixed: Tennessee-Kentucky.
Those divisions would be insane. That is 4 teams who have won a BCS title, and 2 other teams that finished in the top ten last season. Way too unbalanced.
(07-24-2013 10:46 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote: By the way, if the SEC stays at 14 teams and will go to a 9 game schedule, much of this unbalanced scheduling will disappear. With a 6-2-1 format, they can keep the crossover rivals and rotate everybody else every three years.
The SEC could end the "crossovers" by moving Alabama and Auburn to the east division and Kentucky and Missouri to the west division. Then, like the Big Ten, only one "crossover" game would have to be fixed: Tennessee-Kentucky.
Those divisions would be insane. That is 4 teams who have won a BCS title, and 2 other teams that finished in the top ten last season. Way too unbalanced.
Maybe so. But you have to put almost all the "must" rivalry games within the same division, like the 2014 Big Ten lineup, or else you can't eliminate the crossovers.
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Are these the SEC's Biggest Rivalries?
