We all know the struggle right now. Uconn and Cincy feel very left out. Temple and USF to a lesser degree. We know the p5 are trying to get what they want or threat to split and everything going on around college football. In all reality at so point soon or down the road schools like uconn, Cincy and BYU types are going to get homes in the p5. But for now we sit as we sit.

The American is next best. You can for sure argue that BSU or BYU are better than any American team(on the field) but overall the American is the next best. But it's to small and to new. Uconn could win both bball ships next year and Cincy could get the last BCS bid but those 2 can't go it alone. What the American needs is to throw a major curve ball. A crazy one. One that is both a game changer to the college football landscape and one that helps the league money and power wise.

The p5 currently has what 65 teams? Most states that matter politics wise also. They have great bowls nd all that stuff. It's time for "the American" to flex its muscle and use its name to its advantage.

4 divisions and 4 division winners
40 teams
Markets, states, fanbases, potential

West- Boise, BYU, Fresno, SDSU, UNR, UNLV, wy, af, haw, nm or nmst
South- uh, SMU, rice, nt, Tulane, Mem, Tulsa, latech, smiss, ark st
East- USF, UCF, fiu, fau, gast, Uab, ecu, app, uncc, mt
North- uconn, Cincy, ny, umass, Ohio, jmu, odu, navy, army, UDel

25+ states. Best of the best. Schools with potential and history. Rivals. Geography. Bowl game galore. Kills off the Mwc, Cusa and crew. It's the best of the rest. If a couple schools move up to the p5 u then back fill. Utah st, sj, Utep, Troy, nill and so on. Plenty.

The point is you force yourselves to join the breakaway of the NCAA or a new division. Between Boise football, uconn basketball, rice baseball and so on you keep a seat at the table. You have to many worth while products together under one identity to be ignored. Go ahead add in Zaga, vcu and witchita bball for the 3 service academies bball wise. The point stays the same. Force the conversation. Dare the p5 to mess with this league politically. Schools like UDel, north Texas and Fresno may seem out there, but they bring heads. Alums. Students, locals, politicians. Together a war can be fought. 9 states of those in this conference have no p5 teams. They together have a good amount of sway politics wise.

Game on.

That is way to cumbersome of a conference.

Also, in regards to Mens hoops... Memphis, UC, UCon and Temple are a pretty solid top core of teams. I'd argue if ECU can work in the successes it is building in the Mens hoops then we could be a factor at least.

Womens hoops is still probably UCon. Not sure on other programs. ECUs womens program isn't too bad. Not quite a UCon in any stretch but far from a scrub.

The football for 2014 could be real interesting. Not really ready to give the incumbents the edge.

I had meatloaf and mashed potatoes with gravy, for dinner.

Thank you

(07-20-2013 07:43 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  I had meatloaf and mashed potatoes with gravy, for dinner.

Thank you

How dare you leave off the salad?

Eat your veggies

(07-20-2013 07:47 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  

(07-20-2013 07:43 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  I had meatloaf and mashed potatoes with gravy, for dinner.

Thank you

How dare you leave off the salad?

Eat your veggies

Thanks mom. I forgot I also had asparagus, and I did remember to brush my teeth.

So in essence the American should become the second level by itself after the break.
Why not add eight more have four division championships two semi final games and a final. The American fcs league.

i think the american & mwc are pretty equal.

the best thing going for the mwc is that they didnt expand and their current group of teams are all traditionally rivaled with each other. as the b12 proved, sometimes bigger isnt always better

of the g5 byu, cincy, sdsu, & bsu (i may have missed a few teams) are in this weird class of not quite a true p5 school but better than most g5 schools.

but maybe with the new money the p5 is racking in and all these new fbs schools being added, it may be better for the p5/g5 to split. should alabama & umass really be competing for the same championship? i firmly believe that if a team wins every game, regardless of their sos they should not be excluded from a chance to play for the NC, and the best way to to that is most likely by splitting these two groups of schools.

honestly as good as uconn is and even though they are a land grant school, considering the age of their FB program as an fbs school and the limitations they face geographically both with joining other conferences and the northeasts lack of support for cfb & landgrants im not sure this program (and temple for similar reasons) are really cut out for p5 status.

That's a disgusting conference. I think it's highly likely that the American and Mountain West would be invited along in a split. The only things that would have to change are Navy and Air Force get booted for Southern Miss and UTEP respectively. And Hawaii joins the MWC in all sports. That allows the P5, American, MWC, Notre Dame, and BYU to split from the NCAA along with basketball conferences like the Big East, WCC, and A10.

You're crazy if you think Cincy and UConn feel any more left out than USF. Bizarre thing to say.

(07-20-2013 08:56 PM)john01992 Wrote:  i think the american & mwc are pretty equal.

the best thing going for the mwc is that they didnt expand and their current group of teams are all traditionally rivaled with each other. as the b12 proved, sometimes bigger isnt always better

of the g5 byu, cincy, sdsu, & bsu (i may have missed a few teams) are in this weird class of not quite a true p5 school but better than most g5 schools.

but maybe with the new money the p5 is racking in and all these new fbs schools being added, it may be better for the p5/g5 to split. should alabama & umass really be competing for the same championship? i firmly believe that if a team wins every game, regardless of their sos they should not be excluded from a chance to play for the NC, and the best way to to that is most likely by splitting these two groups of schools.

honestly as good as uconn is and even though they are a land grant school, considering the age of their FB program as an fbs school and the limitations they face geographically both with joining other conferences and the northeasts lack of support for cfb & landgrants im not sure this program (and temple for similar reasons) are really cut out for p5 status.

Should Syracuse, Northwestern or Colorado be competing for the same championship as Alabama? not to defend UConn but what geographical limitations do they face that BC or Cuse don't face

(07-20-2013 09:47 PM)Minutemen429 Wrote:  

(07-20-2013 08:56 PM)john01992 Wrote:  i think the american & mwc are pretty equal.

the best thing going for the mwc is that they didnt expand and their current group of teams are all traditionally rivaled with each other. as the b12 proved, sometimes bigger isnt always better

of the g5 byu, cincy, sdsu, & bsu (i may have missed a few teams) are in this weird class of not quite a true p5 school but better than most g5 schools.

but maybe with the new money the p5 is racking in and all these new fbs schools being added, it may be better for the p5/g5 to split. should alabama & umass really be competing for the same championship? i firmly believe that if a team wins every game, regardless of their sos they should not be excluded from a chance to play for the NC, and the best way to to that is most likely by splitting these two groups of schools.

honestly as good as uconn is and even though they are a land grant school, considering the age of their FB program as an fbs school and the limitations they face geographically both with joining other conferences and the northeasts lack of support for cfb & landgrants im not sure this program (and temple for similar reasons) are really cut out for p5 status.

Should Syracuse, Northwestern or Colorado be competing for the same championship as Alabama? not to defend UConn but what geographical limitations do they face that BC or Cuse don't face

well considering that all 3 of the programs you mentioned have well established history with either a power conference or in syracuse's case playing as an indy against pitt, bc, wvu, md & psu.

cuse & cu have won nattys before and are pretty high on the all time wins list. so yes clearly they should be competing for the same natty as bama

being in new england makes them slightly geographically isolated for even the acc/b10 let alone the b12. if this school was located on the edge of b12/b10/acc/sec territory, conf realignment might have been different.

outside of PA, there are only 4 land-grant d1 schools, and all 4 of them do not have consistent d1 history. its hard for a landgrant to prosper in the NE because the private schools have so much political power

bc/cuse are both private but have extensive d1 history whereas uconn is relatively new to the d1 level

(07-20-2013 09:42 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  You're crazy if you think Cincy and UConn feel any more left out than USF. Bizarre thing to say.

as i said i might have missed a few teams, and usf is one of them

(07-20-2013 10:24 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(07-20-2013 09:42 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  You're crazy if you think Cincy and UConn feel any more left out than USF. Bizarre thing to say.

as i said i might have missed a few teams, and usf is one of them

The reason they keep saying that are because those schools tend to be mentioned in for the next conference realignment wave. Nothing against USF.

If I was trying to destroy the American as quickly as possible, I would pretty much do what you just described.

However, as a fan of a P5 team, I'm all for it. It would widen the gap between the P5 and the g5 and end (or at least reduce) revenue sharing, which means more money for my school.

Doesn't it stand to reason that selling TV rights for large block rather than smaller groups or conferences would garner more money.

If the choice for networks were to purchase the rights for p5 or g5 was all or nothing, wouldn't networks spend more to keep from being left out of the college football business.

(07-21-2013 08:38 AM)cleburneslim Wrote:  Doesn't it stand to reason that selling TV rights for large block rather than smaller groups or conferences would garner more money.

If the choice for networks were to purchase the rights for p5 or g5 was all or nothing, wouldn't networks spend more to keep from being left out of the college football business.

More money, maybe. More money per school, not as clear.

If ESPN were faced with the loss of G-5 programming, I think they'd adapt by just running FCS games that I'm pretty sure they have the rights to. (And if they don't, they'd secure them pretty quickly.) The TV audience for say Temple-Toledo is bigger than the audience for Villanova-Youngstown State, but for at least 95% of the ESPN audience, both are just college football games between teams they don't know and don't care about. Football is, after all, still football.

I don't think that would make the P5's predicament any different than what it is. The top 5 teams in the P5 probably make as much money...and have about as many fans...as the 40 teams you lumped in the new "American" conference.

If anything, they might be able to join and exclude the bottom 20 teams from the current Division 1 (FBS) by joining together. That could be worthwhile to the American Top 40 you've described. I don't know that they'd want to have their own league unto itself...but it could be a strategy for consolidating power in the future structure (one with 65 Elite teams and then the next 60-90 teams--if some are able to bounce up from DII). If the top 40 get their own solid TV deal and power play in their future playoff system outside the bowls, it could be worth it.

It won't deter the P5 though.

(07-21-2013 09:23 AM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  I don't think that would make the P5's predicament any different than what it is. The top 5 teams in the P5 probably make as much money...and have about as many fans...as the 40 teams you lumped in the new "American" conference.

If anything, they might be able to join and exclude the bottom 20 teams from the current Division 1 (FBS) by joining together. That could be worthwhile to the American Top 40 you've described. I don't know that they'd want to have their own league unto itself...but it could be a strategy for consolidating power in the future structure (one with 65 Elite teams and then the next 60-90 teams--if some are able to bounce up from DII). If the top 40 get their own solid TV deal and power play in their future playoff system outside the bowls, it could be worth it.

It won't deter the P5 though.

The future split is unlikely to occur between the P5 ang the G5. These two groups largely agree on most NCAA issues. There is, however, a fairly large difference in how FBS schools look at many NCAA issues compared to how the rest of the D1 schools look at those same NCAA issues. That's where the split is far more likely to occur. The top division in the NCAA was never intended to have over 320 schools. That's far too diverse a group to make a lot of sense. A split of the 120-130 FBS schools from the rest of D1 makes a lot of sense. Each division would be far more homogenious and have far more in common than the current mish mash.

(07-21-2013 10:05 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-21-2013 09:23 AM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  I don't think that would make the P5's predicament any different than what it is. The top 5 teams in the P5 probably make as much money...and have about as many fans...as the 40 teams you lumped in the new "American" conference.

If anything, they might be able to join and exclude the bottom 20 teams from the current Division 1 (FBS) by joining together. That could be worthwhile to the American Top 40 you've described. I don't know that they'd want to have their own league unto itself...but it could be a strategy for consolidating power in the future structure (one with 65 Elite teams and then the next 60-90 teams--if some are able to bounce up from DII). If the top 40 get their own solid TV deal and power play in their future playoff system outside the bowls, it could be worth it.

It won't deter the P5 though.

The future split is unlikely to occur between the P5 ang the G5. These two groups largely agree on most NCAA issues. There is, however, a fairly large difference in how FBS schools look at many NCAA issues compared to how the rest of the D1 schools look at those same NCAA issues. That's where the split is far more likely to occur. The top division in the NCAA was never intended to have over 320 schools. That's far too diverse a group to make a lot of sense. A split of the 120-130 FBS schools from the rest of D1 makes a lot of sense. Each division would be far more homogenious and have far more in common than the current mish mash.

wasnt it the mwc that had a memo circulating showing a huge disdain for mark emmert. and wasnt it (i think the wac) who had the commish go on the record about how two of his schools got some of the most ridiculous violations. meanwhile the p5 dominated ncaa oversight board gave mark emmert a unanimous vote of confidence

it often seems that the trivial BS stuff affects the g5 schools a lot more than the g5 schools and thats most likely where the rift occurs

(07-20-2013 07:01 PM)FromTheInside Wrote:  We all know the struggle right now. Uconn and Cincy feel very left out. Temple and USF to a lesser degree. We know the p5 are trying to get what they want or threat to split and everything going on around college football. In all reality at so point soon or down the road schools like uconn, Cincy and BYU types are going to get homes in the p5. But for now we sit as we sit.

The American is next best. You can for sure argue that BSU or BYU are better than any American team(on the field) but overall the American is the next best. But it's to small and to new. Uconn could win both bball ships next year and Cincy could get the last BCS bid but those 2 can't go it alone. What the American needs is to throw a major curve ball. A crazy one. One that is both a game changer to the college football landscape and one that helps the league money and power wise.

The p5 currently has what 65 teams? Most states that matter politics wise also. They have great bowls nd all that stuff. It's time for "the American" to flex its muscle and use its name to its advantage.

4 divisions and 4 division winners
40 teams
Markets, states, fanbases, potential

West- Boise, BYU, Fresno, SDSU, UNR, UNLV, wy, af, haw, nm or nmst
South- uh, SMU, rice, nt, Tulane, Mem, Tulsa, latech, smiss, ark st
East- USF, UCF, fiu, fau, gast, Uab, ecu, app, uncc, mt
North- uconn, Cincy, ny, umass, Ohio, jmu, odu, navy, army, UDel

25+ states. Best of the best. Schools with potential and history. Rivals. Geography. Bowl game galore. Kills off the Mwc, Cusa and crew. It's the best of the rest. If a couple schools move up to the p5 u then back fill. Utah st, sj, Utep, Troy, nill and so on. Plenty.

The point is you force yourselves to join the breakaway of the NCAA or a new division. Between Boise football, uconn basketball, rice baseball and so on you keep a seat at the table. You have to many worth while products together under one identity to be ignored. Go ahead add in Zaga, vcu and witchita bball for the 3 service academies bball wise. The point stays the same. Force the conversation. Dare the p5 to mess with this league politically. Schools like UDel, north Texas and Fresno may seem out there, but they bring heads. Alums. Students, locals, politicians. Together a war can be fought. 9 states of those in this conference have no p5 teams. They together have a good amount of sway politics wise.

Game on.

BYU probably won't go regardless. If they were willing to bend on a few things (not the no Sunday rule), they'd probably would have already been in the Big 12. Regardless, they are trying the Notre Dame model right now and seem to like it.

The rest will go if you can get the American and Mountain West onboard, but I don't see either wanting too. Right now, both conferences precieve themselves as stronger than the rest and financially that's very true. Joining into this one giant conference means loosing that advantage.

While the new conference as a whole might be more powerful than the current American or Mountain West, it doesn't give the current individual members more power or money. They'd be splitting the pie more ways in all likihood (even with unequal revenue sharing). Beyond that, the odds of an individual member of the American or Mountain West making a CFP bowl are probably just as great in a smaller conference than a bigger one. While the bigger one makes it easier to make up for a loss, the smaller one highlights their team more and gives them less risk at the end of the season.

If the conferences actually did this set-up though, it would sure be interesting. Since NCAA rules only allow CCGs with round robin divisions (an exception was given to the MAC who took in a homeless Temple and then again when they were left with an odd number after Temple left, but that probably wouldn't happen here ). My guess is the set-up would basically have to work like this.

1. Two formal football only conferences (tied together and advertised together, but with 2 conference trophies).
2. Two 10 team divisions playing round robin in each. That means 9 conference games.
3. CCGs the next to last week of the season.
4. The last week of the season is left open and not scheduled till the week before. Teams are matched up based on standings between the 2 conferences with the top two playing a championship game. In one year, one conference host the games and in the next, the other (so home schedules would still be known ahead of time).

Practically though, it would work a lot better with 36 or even 32 teams. With 40 and using current rules, you only allow for 2 free non-conference games.