(07-18-2013 07:21 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  only judging Miami based on their current attendance is myopic. Their stadium only 24K so even even if they were selling out every game the number wouldn't be that impressive. Something to consider is that their football program has the 17th best winning percentage of all time in FBS and is the highest of all G5 programs. Tulsa currently leads the AAC at #44.

Academically Miami rates #89 in the USNWR rankings which would be 5th in the AAC and is 2nd in remaining G5 schools behind Rice.

Not saying the AAC should invite Miami, not saying Miami would accept if invited, just saying that bad attendance is rampant amongst G5, there's other factors that might be more useful.

Excellent post, you made all the points I was thinking but not smart enough to lay it out as well as you just did.

Miami U is a quality program with tradition and great college campus atmosphere.

(07-18-2013 11:03 AM)CommuterBob Wrote:  ODU and Charlotte don't have the facilities large enough (although Charlotte could try to get a deal with the Panthers' stadium I suppose).

Considering Carolina Panthers' Owner Jerry Richardson bought(donated for) the naming rights to our on-campus football stadium; I'm going to go out a limb and say the 49ers, Panthers, and Bank of America Stadium have a strong relationship.

(07-18-2013 03:36 PM)Blackhawk-eye Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 02:50 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 11:04 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 10:18 AM)chess Wrote:  We have to see how some of the new programs grow. Charlotte, Old Dominion, UTSA, Georgia State, etc... What if these programs start averaging 50,000 fans a game?

It will be a challenge. According to THIS WEBSITE only 39 FBS teams averaged 50,000+ in attendance during the 2012 season. Since, according to Wikipedia, there were 120 FBS teams in 2012 that is less than a quarter of FBS level programs. So, drawing the line at 50,000 maybe a little high considering AAC members (current and future) only averaged around 35,000 in 2012. Louisville,ECU, and South Florida were the closest to averaging 50,000.

You guys still don't know who is in this conference. Take a look at that list and right behind Ville is Rutgers. We are both here for a year. You either count us both or leave us both out. Take our pick.

Your school doesn't even acknowledge the conference they are playing in - pretty classless honestly. You may want to lighten up a bit.

Either way it doesn't change the numbers all that much.

(07-18-2013 07:21 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  only judging Miami based on their current attendance is myopic. Their stadium only holds 24K so even if they were selling out every game the number wouldn't be that impressive. Something to consider is that their football program has the 17th best winning percentage of all time in FBS and is the highest of all G5 programs. Tulsa currently leads the AAC at #44.

All that matters quite honestly when it comes to tradition is what has a program done over the previous 5 seasons. That is the best indicator on how a program is going to perform in the future.

I ran the numbers before and Miami is not that much above .500 since the modern MAC era of 2 division play and 85 scholarships (1997). Miami has stayed competitive in the MAC but its really Toledo that has excelled.

(07-18-2013 06:58 PM)Poliicious Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 05:04 PM)chess Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 04:15 PM)Blackhawk-eye Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 10:09 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  Circa 2020?

East
Army-Navy
UConn-Temple
UCF-USF
ECU

West
Houston-SMU
Tulane-Memphis
Miami (OH)-Cincy
Tulsa

IMHO, all you need is Army and one more regional full member. I like Miami University due to the long standing rivalry with Cincinnati, great for local fans, travel, academics are very strong and the Redhawks help fill in the travel gap Cincy and its fans face right now.

Heck, the American Athletic may be able to start its own Hockey Conference with those two additions, at least have a base - UConn, Army, Navy, Miami. Just need a couple more right?

Anyway, I think that would be a good conference if Army could be convinced and Cincy would be agreeable to the nearby rival.

If the American did not consider Northern Illinois and their 16,000 fans a home game, Miami (OH)'s 15,000 will not be considered at this time.

NIU is not interesting in writing a check for $2.5M to the MAC to join CUSA 2.0.

It doesn't make sense unless the AAC is talking about 5 million in TV revenue which they don't have so that NIU can start paying 2 million a year for its FB/BB coaches.

The way its going, the AAC will probably lose a few more programs before its next TV contract. The B12 should expand in 2019 as a preemptive move for the next CFP contract. Cincinnati, Memphis, Houston, Tulane all could be gone from the AAC.

Then the AAC will probably try to focus on the East with ODU, Army and UMass. Georgia State could be in the mix if they improve their football team. SMU/Tulsa if left on an island may have to look at the MWC.

(07-18-2013 06:35 PM)chess Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 06:21 PM)Blackhawk-eye Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 05:04 PM)chess Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 04:15 PM)Blackhawk-eye Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 10:09 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  Circa 2020?

East
Army-Navy
UConn-Temple
UCF-USF
ECU

West
Houston-SMU
Tulane-Memphis
Miami (OH)-Cincy
Tulsa

IMHO, all you need is Army and one more regional full member. I like Miami University due to the long standing rivalry with Cincinnati, great for local fans, travel, academics are very strong and the Redhawks help fill in the travel gap Cincy and its fans face right now.

Heck, the American Athletic may be able to start its own Hockey Conference with those two additions, at least have a base - UConn, Army, Navy, Miami. Just need a couple more right?

Anyway, I think that would be a good conference if Army could be convinced and Cincy would be agreeable to the nearby rival.

If the American did not consider Northern Illinois and their 16,000 fans a home game, Miami (OH)'s 15,000 will not be considered at this time.

Tulane 18,000.

I think it's been painfully pointed out that Tulane is no where near 18,000 fans. Miami U would be better than Tulane, but since TU is already in and clearly did not meet your attendance threshold, then I would guess there is no such parameter.

I agree that Tulane is a project. Hopefully the new stadium helps.

Does Miami (OH) expect growth in their fan base? Miami has a similar student demographic to Tulsa, Tulane, and SMU.

I agree with the Tulane statement. I think there are one too many 0s on that number. One thing people don't realize is local visiting teams like the Tulane away games is because you can check in a room on Friday night in the Quarter or the CBD for the weekend and walk to the Dome on Saturday for the game and then leave on Sunday without ever getting in your car, if you brought one. That is the draw. Once the stadium is built on campus fewer visiting fans will want to go due to the location of the campus away from the quarter.

(07-19-2013 10:43 AM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  I agree with the Tulane statement. I think there are one too many 0s on that number. One thing people don't realize is local visiting teams like the Tulane away games is because you can check in a room on Friday night in the Quarter or the CBD for the weekend and walk to the Dome on Saturday for the game and then leave on Sunday without ever getting in your car, if you brought one. That is the draw. Once the stadium is built on campus fewer visiting fans will want to go due to the location of the campus away from the quarter.

New Orleans has trolleys for that. I used them every year to go from the Quarter to the on-campus Tulane-Rice baseball games.

(07-18-2013 10:09 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  Circa 2020?

11 all sports
3 football only (Navy, Army, Air Force)
3 non-football (VCU, Saint Louis, Wichita St)

East
Army-Navy (sub VCU/Saint Louis)
UConn-Temple
UCF-USF
East Carolina

West
Houston-SMU
Tulane-Tulsa
Memphis-Cincy
Air Force (sub Wichita St)

Potential all-sport replacement members for Group A defections, if any:
UMass for UConn
Southern Miss for Cincy
Rice for Houston
Marshall for Temple

Where would Air Force put the rest of their sports?

(07-18-2013 11:04 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 10:18 AM)chess Wrote:  We have to see how some of the new programs grow. Charlotte, Old Dominion, UTSA, Georgia State, etc... What if these programs start averaging 50,000 fans a game?

It will be a challenge. According to THIS WEBSITE only 39 FBS teams averaged 50,000+ in attendance during the 2012 season. Since, according to Wikipedia, there were 120 FBS teams in 2012 that is less than a quarter of FBS level programs. So, drawing the line at 50,000 maybe a little high considering AAC members (current and future) only averaged around 35,000 in 2012. Louisville,ECU, and South Florida were the closest to averaging 50,000.

I could easily see ODU averaging over 50K. They are in a highly populated, football crazy part of the country, without a major sports franchise. Their brand is still in the growth phase and they are jumping to the 7th or 8th best conference in FBS. They'll have VT among others coming to ODU. Which will help sell season tickets and get athletic club donation up. To get to 50K, they'll have to build a bigger stadium but that won't be out of the question if they keep selling out and get increased donations.

I'm surprised no one has picked on this yet. 39/120 is not less than 25%. It's close to 1/3rd.

(07-18-2013 06:58 PM)Poliicious Wrote:  NIU is not interesting in writing a check for $2.5M to the MAC to join CUSA 2.0.

Don't forget about the $10M entry fee they'd have to write the AAC too.

(07-19-2013 01:58 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 06:58 PM)Poliicious Wrote:  NIU is not interesting in writing a check for $2.5M to the MAC to join CUSA 2.0.

Don't forget about the $10M entry fee they'd have to write the AAC too.

I think you have the entry and exit fees confused. Entry fee is 2.5 million, exit is 10.

That exit fee is ridiculous. $10 million?

(07-19-2013 02:37 PM)Blackhawk-eye Wrote:  That exit fee is ridiculous. $10 million?

Who knows if it remains, but it's going to help fund the leftovers mostly and a little to the newcomers and keep them at least in the game financially until this cheapskate TV deal expires.

(07-18-2013 04:20 PM)chess Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 11:03 AM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 10:18 AM)chess Wrote:  We have to see how some of the new programs grow. Charlotte, Old Dominion, UTSA, Georgia State, etc... What if these programs start averaging 50,000 fans a game?

Of those, only UTSA and GSU would have the facility large enough to do so. ODU and Charlotte don't have the facilities large enough (although Charlotte could try to get a deal with the Panthers' stadium I suppose). And I'm not sure, but if the Georgia Dome goes away in the new Falcons' stadium deal, where does GSU go?

And Old Dominion can't build a bigger stadium? ODU is a hot ticket in Norfolk.

If I had to bet, it will be Old Dominion and UTSA that gets to 35-40,000 people for home games. Charlotte has the opportunity to grow and support its program and Georgia State will be playing in an empty Georgia Dome.

Who knows? Maybe a school like UAB will build a new stadium, separate from UAT, hire the coaches they want (remember Jeff Fisher?), and build their fanbase.

I don't know the future but before the American looks to expand, we should allow some of these schools to develop their programs over the next few years.

We will be fine

(07-18-2013 10:18 AM)chess Wrote:  We have to see how some of the new programs grow. Charlotte, Old Dominion, UTSA, Georgia State, etc... What if these programs start averaging 50,000 fans a game?

How many G-5 programs average over 50k a game?

Zero

How many G-5 programs average over 40k a game?

Two

How many G-5 programs average over 30k a game?

Six



SIX!

(07-19-2013 03:49 PM)panama Wrote:  How many G-5 programs average over 50k a game?

Zero

How many G-5 programs average over 40k a game?

Two

How many G-5 programs average over 30k a game?

Six

Who are the two and the six?

(07-19-2013 03:41 PM)panama Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 04:20 PM)chess Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 11:03 AM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 10:18 AM)chess Wrote:  We have to see how some of the new programs grow. Charlotte, Old Dominion, UTSA, Georgia State, etc... What if these programs start averaging 50,000 fans a game?

Of those, only UTSA and GSU would have the facility large enough to do so. ODU and Charlotte don't have the facilities large enough (although Charlotte could try to get a deal with the Panthers' stadium I suppose). And I'm not sure, but if the Georgia Dome goes away in the new Falcons' stadium deal, where does GSU go?

And Old Dominion can't build a bigger stadium? ODU is a hot ticket in Norfolk.

If I had to bet, it will be Old Dominion and UTSA that gets to 35-40,000 people for home games. Charlotte has the opportunity to grow and support its program and Georgia State will be playing in an empty Georgia Dome.

Who knows? Maybe a school like UAB will build a new stadium, separate from UAT, hire the coaches they want (remember Jeff Fisher?), and build their fanbase.

I don't know the future but before the American looks to expand, we should allow some of these schools to develop their programs over the next few years.

We will be fine

I think all he meant was that you'd be playing a Georgia Dome without a tenant. That's how I read it at least. I don't think he knows the existing GA dome will be demolished.

(07-19-2013 09:28 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(07-19-2013 03:49 PM)panama Wrote:  How many G-5 programs average over 50k a game?

Zero

How many G-5 programs average over 40k a game?

Two

How many G-5 programs average over 30k a game?

Six

Who are the two and the six?

ECU and BYU average over 40,000 per game. Not sure who the six over 30,000 are.

Adding the three basketball schools -Witchia State, St. Louis and Virginia Commonwealth- would be a great idea. Frankly, adding them along with two Philly schools -St. Joe's, LaSalle- would be abetter one. We would have 16 Olympic members and 12 football members with one being football-only. It would also fill in the gaps travel-wise.

As far as future members are concerned, Old Dominion, UTSA, Charlotte and UMass will all be considered in due time; most likely, it will be ODU first.

I would also not be surprised to see a re-interest emerge with a few MWC schools.

I just need some stability for a few years...

(07-19-2013 11:07 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(07-19-2013 09:28 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(07-19-2013 03:49 PM)panama Wrote:  How many G-5 programs average over 50k a game?

Zero

How many G-5 programs average over 40k a game?

Two

How many G-5 programs average over 30k a game?

Six

Who are the two and the six?

ECU and BYU average over 40,000 per game. Not sure who the six over 30,000 are.

ECU 47,013
USF 44,130
Boise St 35,404
UCF 34,608
Fresno St. 30,915
SDSU 30,879