The big problem is that we haven't done anything about revenues in 50 years, and as a result we have fallen WAY behind the power curve in intercollegiate athletics.

(07-17-2013 07:28 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(07-16-2013 05:30 PM)S.A. Owl Wrote:  How much, more or less, do we make from a UT-at-Reliant and a Kyle Field game?

I don't think anyone answered this.

I've heard as high as $2mm for UT at Reliant. I think a figure closer to $1mm is more realistic, but maybe I'm wrong

That's not bad at all. Factor in how beatable UT is these days and this game is a no-brainer.

3 easy ways:

1. Counter-intuitive, but lower ticket prices. You'll make it back in higher attendance and ancillary revenues
2. Sell beer at athletic events
3. Rent Tudor and HRS to attract headline entertainment acts (could make $1m on this alone)

This is a really tough question. I am not sure what it needs to be, but I think Rice has to find a way to demonstrate that it is serious about winning and not just hanging on. I don't think there are any easy answers and many of the things tried may fail. It is going to cost and some of the cost may be wasted. Rice just has to keep trying. Basketball has to be fixed because it is a good way to add income. Teams that make the tournament make good money. Teams like Butler, St Mary's, show that it is doable. The stadium has to be spiffed up, Bailiff has to be given every tool that Rice can give, within its academic parameters. Part of it is luck. There is no question in my mind that Robert Griffin III fundamentally changed the perception of Baylor football. Rice needs a modern hero. Rice needs to be prepared to jump on the momentum when it starts. This is something that Baylor has done well. They announced today that they have sold 20,000 season tickets for next year. There are tremendous advantages to being in Houston, the trick is figuring out how to capitalize on them.

(07-17-2013 09:56 PM)Riceman2004 Wrote:  3 easy ways:

1. Counter-intuitive, but lower ticket prices. You'll make it back in higher attendance and ancillary revenues
2. Sell beer at athletic events
3. Rent Tudor and HRS to attract headline entertainment acts (could make $1m on this alone)

1. Probably so to some extent, but you have to get the number right.
2. Some huge liability issues here that the state schools don't have, at least not in Texas, because of sovereign immunity.
3. There have been issues with the neighbours and noise over this, and Rice pretty much stopped the practice as a result.

All are good ideas, just there are some huge pitfalls associated with each.

Perhaps moving the "sports" entrance to the north end by the tennis courts and a balanced flow of traffic between shepherd and greenbriar, we can do a little more of the "other" events

(07-17-2013 10:39 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-17-2013 09:56 PM)Riceman2004 Wrote:  3 easy ways:

1. Counter-intuitive, but lower ticket prices. You'll make it back in higher attendance and ancillary revenues
2. Sell beer at athletic events
3. Rent Tudor and HRS to attract headline entertainment acts (could make $1m on this alone)

1. Probably so to some extent, but you have to get the number right.
2. Some huge liability issues here that the state schools don't have, at least not in Texas, because of sovereign immunity.
3. There have been issues with the neighbours and noise over this, and Rice pretty much stopped the practice as a result.

All are good ideas, just there are some huge pitfalls associated with each.

All revenue generating initiatives have pitfalls and ruffle feathers, but that doesn't mean you don't try. At an institution like Rice, I'm hopeful there are some people with enough microeconomic knowledge to fix pricing (I don't think anyone in Athletics even knows what a demand curve is much less knows how to use them). Furthermore, I'm pretty sure if professional sports teams can figure out how to sell alcohol (charge a lot for it, wristband those over 21 and limit sales per order), Rice can too. Lastly, issues with the neighborhood can be mitigated through discount sales to local residents, VIP parking & keeping big events to holidays and weekends.

I've long viewed the hedges as a barrier to the community at large. To the extent that Rice can open itself as a destination in Houston (as UH did for example with the MLS) the better it will be as a halo effect on attendance at events.

(07-18-2013 07:16 AM)Riceman2004 Wrote:  

(07-17-2013 10:39 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-17-2013 09:56 PM)Riceman2004 Wrote:  3 easy ways:
1. Counter-intuitive, but lower ticket prices. You'll make it back in higher attendance and ancillary revenues
2. Sell beer at athletic events
3. Rent Tudor and HRS to attract headline entertainment acts (could make $1m on this alone)

1. Probably so to some extent, but you have to get the number right.
2. Some huge liability issues here that the state schools don't have, at least not in Texas, because of sovereign immunity.
3. There have been issues with the neighbours and noise over this, and Rice pretty much stopped the practice as a result.
All are good ideas, just there are some huge pitfalls associated with each.

All revenue generating initiatives have pitfalls and ruffle feathers, but that doesn't mean you don't try. At an institution like Rice, I'm hopeful there are some people with enough microeconomic knowledge to fix pricing (I don't think anyone in Athletics even knows what a demand curve is much less knows how to use them). Furthermore, I'm pretty sure if professional sports teams can figure out how to sell alcohol (charge a lot for it, wristband those over 21 and limit sales per order), Rice can too. Lastly, issues with the neighborhood can be mitigated through discount sales to local residents, VIP parking & keeping big events to holidays and weekends.
I've long viewed the hedges as a barrier to the community at large. To the extent that Rice can open itself as a destination in Houston (as UH did for example with the MLS) the better it will be as a halo effect on attendance at events.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just pointing out the obstacles. One problem we have had is a lot of people running things who are far more interested in finding reasons to say no than to say yes. There has never been an adequate marketing focus.

I remember a former ticket sales director complain, on a night when we had a large walkup sale for a basketball game, "These people seem to think that I don't have anything better to do than to sell them tickets." That's pretty much been the Rice approach to marketing.

(07-17-2013 10:39 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  ...3. There have been issues with the neighbours and noise over this, and Rice pretty much stopped the practice as a result....

They live next to a really big stadium. If we achieve our football game attendance goals, there will be lots of noise!

The freedom to enjoy one's property works both ways. Rice and the neighborhood association need to figure out a compromise so that this can be a win-win for us (revenue) and the neighborhood (easy access to cultural events). Perhaps we limit special events that are likely to be loud and/or heavily attended to Fridays and Saturdays. Perhaps we end events before 10 p.m. Perhaps we give each household in the neighborhood event tickets. Perhaps we revise our special events traffic management and parking plan.*

*Do we have such a plan? If not, here's my business card!

(07-18-2013 08:41 AM)Caelligh Wrote:  

(07-17-2013 10:39 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  ...3. There have been issues with the neighbours and noise over this, and Rice pretty much stopped the practice as a result....

They live next to a really big stadium. If we achieve our football game attendance goals, there will be lots of noise!

It is like the people that built houses right over the approach area at DFW. Then they complain about all the aircraft noise.

(07-18-2013 07:40 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  "These people seem to think that I don't have anything better to do than to sell them tickets."

Reminds me of a story told by a friend in the consulting business, who was assigned to review the sales organization of a particular company. One of the sales people he reviewed told him: "I could get a lot more work done if these darn customers would stop calling me."

(07-18-2013 09:02 AM)Antarius Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 08:41 AM)Caelligh Wrote:  

(07-17-2013 10:39 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  ...3. There have been issues with the neighbours and noise over this, and Rice pretty much stopped the practice as a result....

They live next to a really big stadium. If we achieve our football game attendance goals, there will be lots of noise!

It is like the people that built houses right over the approach area at DFW. Then they complain about all the aircraft noise.

One of the funniest things I ever saw in the Austin paper was this comment shortly after the opening of the new Formula 1 race track: "Now let's build condos on the infield so people can move in and complain about the noise."

It was refreshing to see Austin making fun of itself -- I wasn't sure that could happen.

So is the university and BOT okay with the program sliding to D-3 or whatever if those in charge in the athletic department can't answer your question?

I think an argument can be made that in the current CFB environment, Rice is on the 'endangered' list if you will, in terms of remaining as a participant at the top level of competition. So the decisions we make over the next 5-10 years (IMO) may determine whether we continue as one of the few top-20 academic schools that compete at the top level- as we have for 100 years- or we inexorably slide to a level that we'll be thought of in relation to Wash U/ Trinity, etc. (Those are great schools, don't get me wrong, but I'd rather be lumped with Northwestern, Stanford, Vandy, etc). A counter could certainly be made as to whether or not the existential circumstances are that drastic, but it is inarguable that we are currently stuck in a second-tier league, as as long as we are then we don't really control our own destiny.

So- to your point of the monetary needs of the program. Everything suggested by you, Hambone and others has the feel of a compromised solution- trying to get something done with one arm tied behind your back. I am not going to opine on the efficacy of anyone's plan. I just wonder if it is worth the risk, institutionally, to rely on any compromised plan. If we happen to succeed, great. If not, I think there is a larger chance that we are D3 or club sport in 15 years than D1 (or whatever the breakaway group is called then).

Maybe I am being too dramatic, but it seems to me with these stakes and timing that the overhaul of the football program would be a university/ institutional effort as opposed to an athletic department effort only. Money alone is not going to solve the problem, and in any case $5 million/ year won't move the needle. What is needed is a substantial one-time investment now, combined with greatly increased annual spending-- in addition to a winning team, professional marketing, etc. obviously. Borrow some from the endowment, have the university lead fundraising, etc. and shout it to the heavens that we are committed to getting back to the top level and staying there.

If we (university, alumni, BOT) are not willing to do that, then we are okay with staking our hopes on a woefully underfunded athletic department doing it with one arm tied behind their back. I honestly don't think some people understand what's at risk.

After reading through this thread, I find it to be absolutely incredible that Bailiff has done so well, given the lack of resources. In my opinion, Rice Stadium must be completely renovated and beautified, even if it takes $50mil to do it. Make it the kind of stadium that people can't wait to visit. Go up on ticket prices and sell as much as you can from the concessions. In the even longer term, organize a campaign to establish an enormous athletics endowment of over $250mil. Keep winning and sell more beer.

(07-18-2013 02:14 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  After reading through this thread, I find it to be absolutely incredible that Bailiff has done so well, given the lack of resources. In my opinion, Rice Stadium must be completely renovated and beautified, even if it takes $50mil to do it. Make it the kind of stadium that people can't wait to visit. Go up on ticket prices and sell as much as you can from the concessions. In the even longer term, organize a campaign to establish an enormous athletics endowment of over $250mil. Keep winning and sell more beer.

Resources or not, you and I have very very different ideas of what "so well" means.

Good post, MA. I would say that fighting with one arm behind our back is what we have been doing for 40-50 years, and we have seen where that leads. Now we are starting to cut fingers off the other hand.

I don't think the politics will allow the BOT to make the commitment necessary to take the approach that you are proposing. That's assumption, not fact, but I think it's reasonable assumption.

Part of me says let's just quit lopping off fingers and move unilaterally to D-3. That's where we are going to end up anyway on the current path.

But part of me wants to make one legitimate shot before quitting. That's the context in which I'm trying to come up with ideas. I really do think that $2-3 million more per year in spending for the right things would be enough to untie the hand behind our back, at least to the point that we could parlay our advantages into a competitive position. But the current guidance from the BOT implies that we need to reduce the deficit before any more spending will be approved. That's where I get the $5 million number, $2-3 million for expenditures and a like amount for deficit reduction.

To be very clear, I'm talking here about operating revenues, not donations. That's been a big problem, every time this athletic department needs more money, the solution is always to hit up the same donor pool for still more money. I don't think that's sustainable. We need to expand the base.

(07-18-2013 07:16 AM)Riceman2004 Wrote:  All revenue generating initiatives have pitfalls and ruffle feathers, but that doesn't mean you don't try. At an institution like Rice, I'm hopeful there are some people with enough microeconomic knowledge to fix pricing (I don't think anyone in Athletics even knows what a demand curve is much less knows how to use them). Furthermore, I'm pretty sure if professional sports teams can figure out how to sell alcohol (charge a lot for it, wristband those over 21 and limit sales per order), Rice can too. Lastly, issues with the neighborhood can be mitigated through discount sales to local residents, VIP parking & keeping big events to holidays and weekends.

I've long viewed the hedges as a barrier to the community at large. To the extent that Rice can open itself as a destination in Houston (as UH did for example with the MLS) the better it will be as a halo effect on attendance at events.

Just had to briefly take umbrage with the bolded part of your comment. There are plenty of people in Athletics (most of them student-athletes) who took the Managerial Studies classes where demand curves and maximizing revenue (or more properly, profit) by balancing price and volume were integral parts of the curriculum. Outside of the student-athletes, I would sure hope someone in the AD's office has a better than working knowledge of supply and demand and maximizing profits equations!

I've been pretty critical of Bailiff, and I stand by those criticisms, but given the environment I can't say he's done that badly overall. Nick Saban couldn't win consistently in this environment. The difference between Saban and Bailiff is that Saban would realize that and become the bull in the China shop to get changes made, whereas Bailiff has tried to work within the system.

(07-18-2013 02:31 PM)RiceDoc Wrote:  ...the Managerial Studies classes where demand curves and maximizing revenue (or more properly, profit) by balancing price and volume were integral parts of the curriculum.

It would be more accurate to say those are Econ courses -- specifically, Econ 211 et. seq. They are part of the requirements for a Mana major, but they are taught by the Econ department and are, fundamentally, economics courses. Similarly, Physics 101 is a physics course, even though many (most?) of the students who take it go on to engineering majors.

(07-18-2013 02:33 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I've been pretty critical of Bailiff, and I stand by those criticisms, but given the environment I can't say he's done that badly overall. Nick Saban couldn't win consistently in this environment. The difference between Saban and Bailiff is that Saban would realize that and become the bull in the China shop to get changes made, whereas Bailiff has tried to work within the system.

But you don't have to be a bull in the China shop. You don't have to leave a wake of destruction to forge a new path. The trick is to understand the system and work within it to get what you need. There should be key individuals within the Athletic Department who understand this and implement positive change with scientific methodology. Develop a plan of action with supporting data to validate the plan, implement the plan with descrete metric monitoring, continue the plan if the desired outcomes are being acheived or modify the plan if outcomes are not being met and/or unforseen negative outcomes are occurring. Be proactive instead of reactive. Be cognizant of your environment and avoid the pitfalls. Only cut out the bad stuff and leave the viable stuff in place (sorry for the non-lawyer talk, it's all I know).