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"Football Drives The Bus! Football Makes the Money!" Old article says, maybe not
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #1
"Football Drives The Bus! Football Makes the Money!" Old article says, maybe not
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journ...ights.aspx

I was looking for something on Fox's bid for the ACC rights in 2010 because Fox has been looking for a college anchor property for a long time, which is why they paid the Big 12 a ton of money in 2011 (and then the PAC 12 and the Big East).

What surprised me was a little inset box in the article.

Quote:ACC TV rights revenue
Current deals:
Football: 7 years, $258 million with ABC/ESPN through 2010
Basketball: 10 years, $370 million with Raycom Sports through 2010-11
Average per year: $73 million to $75 million
New deal:
Football/basketball: 12 years, $1.86 billion with ABC/ESPN through 2022-23
Average per year: $155 million
Sources: Conference Form 990 filed with the IRS, SportsBusiness Journal

The so the ACC had separate contracts for basketball and football before 2010.
The football contract, which started in 2003-04, was for $258/7 = just under $37M per year.
The basketball contract which started in 2001-02 was for $370/10 = $37M per year.

So the ACC's TV revenue was derived equally from football and basketball. So either this article is wrong, or we can bury the myth of the ACC's TV revenue mostly coming from football.
07-16-2013 01:13 PM
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Post: #2
RE: "Football Drives The Bus! Football Makes the Money!" Old article says, maybe not
ESPN bought the whole bundle of sticks. Though I doubt the current contract says X dollars is for football and Y dollars are for basketball we know basketball has some portion of that value. Even if football represents more than 1/2 of the value by the time you consider the ACC's revenue from the league basketball tournament and NCAA basketball distribution the league quite likely generates half or more of its income from basketball. That's not even counting the "soft money" ie. the amount some people donate to UNC or Wake Forest solely because they have to be at that donor level to be able to purchase an ACC Tournament ticket. That's real spendable cash for those schools.

I ran CUSA's numbers a bit back. Even if you assumed their two TV contracts were 100% because of football (completely implausible) between their NCAA Tournament revenue and profits from the CUSA Tournament nearly half of their income was basketball related. Once you apportion some value to basketball out of the TV deal, CUSA quite obviously was making more money from basketball than football.
07-16-2013 01:24 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #3
RE: "Football Drives The Bus! Football Makes the Money!" Old article says, maybe not
(07-16-2013 01:24 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  ESPN bought the whole bundle of sticks. Though I doubt the current contract says X dollars is for football and Y dollars are for basketball we know basketball has some portion of that value. Even if football represents more than 1/2 of the value by the time you consider the ACC's revenue from the league basketball tournament and NCAA basketball distribution the league quite likely generates half or more of its income from basketball. That's not even counting the "soft money" ie. the amount some people donate to UNC or Wake Forest solely because they have to be at that donor level to be able to purchase an ACC Tournament ticket. That's real spendable cash for those schools.

I ran CUSA's numbers a bit back. Even if you assumed their two TV contracts were 100% because of football (completely implausible) between their NCAA Tournament revenue and profits from the CUSA Tournament nearly half of their income was basketball related. Once you apportion some value to basketball out of the TV deal, CUSA quite obviously was making more money from basketball than football.

I wasn't paying attention to sports TV contracts back in 2010, so I didn't know until this morning that the ACC, not so long ago, had separate football and basketball contracts. We've all seen the quote from the Clemson AD that 75-80% of the ACC TV contract is from football, but given that 50% of the previous ACC contract was from basketball, that's bonkers. For the 2011 contract, that would mean that the value of ACC basketball stayed the same from 2001 to 2010 while the value of ACC football tripled.

I had thought that the ACC had an all-sports contract for a while when the Clemson AD said that. That would have made it more plausible.
(This post was last modified: 07-16-2013 01:34 PM by johnbragg.)
07-16-2013 01:33 PM
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Post: #4
RE: "Football Drives The Bus! Football Makes the Money!" Old article says, maybe not
(07-16-2013 01:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(07-16-2013 01:24 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  ESPN bought the whole bundle of sticks. Though I doubt the current contract says X dollars is for football and Y dollars are for basketball we know basketball has some portion of that value. Even if football represents more than 1/2 of the value by the time you consider the ACC's revenue from the league basketball tournament and NCAA basketball distribution the league quite likely generates half or more of its income from basketball. That's not even counting the "soft money" ie. the amount some people donate to UNC or Wake Forest solely because they have to be at that donor level to be able to purchase an ACC Tournament ticket. That's real spendable cash for those schools.

I ran CUSA's numbers a bit back. Even if you assumed their two TV contracts were 100% because of football (completely implausible) between their NCAA Tournament revenue and profits from the CUSA Tournament nearly half of their income was basketball related. Once you apportion some value to basketball out of the TV deal, CUSA quite obviously was making more money from basketball than football.

I wasn't paying attention to sports TV contracts back in 2010, so I didn't know until this morning that the ACC, not so long ago, had separate football and basketball contracts. We've all seen the quote from the Clemson AD that 75-80% of the ACC TV contract is from football, but given that 50% of the previous ACC contract was from basketball, that's bonkers. For the 2011 contract, that would mean that the value of ACC basketball stayed the same from 2001 to 2010 while the value of ACC football tripled.

I had thought that the ACC had an all-sports contract for a while when the Clemson AD said that. That would have made it more plausible.

No, things HAVE changed that much. Football ratings and demographics are good. Basketball ratings outside the NCAA tourney are falling and the demographics are terrible (typical is over 50 male-ratings among the young are very low-they watch the NBA-Frank the Tank had a post on that a year or so back). The Big East deal with Boise provided that at least 70% of the revenue would go to the football schools, despite the strength of Big East basketball.
07-16-2013 04:46 PM
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Post: #5
RE: "Football Drives The Bus! Football Makes the Money!" Old article says, maybe not
That also explains how the ACC could be the best paid conference and the Big East the 2nd best paid in the mid-90s.

Of course, those numbers were miniscule compared to today. I think the ACC deal was $30-$35 million a year for all the schools. I found a source saying the SEC CBS deal was $125 million over 5 years starting in 1996.
07-16-2013 04:54 PM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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Post: #6
RE: "Football Drives The Bus! Football Makes the Money!" Old article says, maybe not
Someone wrote it last week: one and dones are KILLING college basketball. They need to go to the MLB rule of you can enter the draft out of HS or after your junior year. That would fix a lot of CBB's problems, IMHO.
07-16-2013 05:01 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #7
RE: "Football Drives The Bus! Football Makes the Money!" Old article says, maybe not
(07-16-2013 01:13 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  The so the ACC had separate contracts for basketball and football before 2010.
The football contract, which started in 2003-04, was for $258/7 = just under $37M per year.
The basketball contract which started in 2001-02 was for $370/10 = $37M per year.

That old ACC football contract was for a 9-team league that didn't include Miami, VT, and BC. Much less inventory in the 9-team league, and no conference title game, plus that football contract didn't include all ACC FB rights, while the current deal with ESPN does.

Also, the TV value of hoops may have stayed stagnant because the value of hoops on TV is now in the tournament, which means the NCAA, through its CBS/TBS contract for March Madness, has siphoned most of the TV value of college hoops away from the conferences and into the NCAA's bank accounts. The TV revenue paid to the NCAA for March Madness exceeds the TV revenue paid to all conferences combined for regular season and conference tournaments.
(This post was last modified: 07-16-2013 05:11 PM by Wedge.)
07-16-2013 05:10 PM
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Post: #8
RE: "Football Drives The Bus! Football Makes the Money!" Old article says, maybe not
(07-16-2013 04:46 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(07-16-2013 01:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(07-16-2013 01:24 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  ESPN bought the whole bundle of sticks. Though I doubt the current contract says X dollars is for football and Y dollars are for basketball we know basketball has some portion of that value. Even if football represents more than 1/2 of the value by the time you consider the ACC's revenue from the league basketball tournament and NCAA basketball distribution the league quite likely generates half or more of its income from basketball. That's not even counting the "soft money" ie. the amount some people donate to UNC or Wake Forest solely because they have to be at that donor level to be able to purchase an ACC Tournament ticket. That's real spendable cash for those schools.

I ran CUSA's numbers a bit back. Even if you assumed their two TV contracts were 100% because of football (completely implausible) between their NCAA Tournament revenue and profits from the CUSA Tournament nearly half of their income was basketball related. Once you apportion some value to basketball out of the TV deal, CUSA quite obviously was making more money from basketball than football.

I wasn't paying attention to sports TV contracts back in 2010, so I didn't know until this morning that the ACC, not so long ago, had separate football and basketball contracts. We've all seen the quote from the Clemson AD that 75-80% of the ACC TV contract is from football, but given that 50% of the previous ACC contract was from basketball, that's bonkers. For the 2011 contract, that would mean that the value of ACC basketball stayed the same from 2001 to 2010 while the value of ACC football tripled.

I had thought that the ACC had an all-sports contract for a while when the Clemson AD said that. That would have made it more plausible.

No, things HAVE changed that much. Football ratings and demographics are good. Basketball ratings outside the NCAA tourney are falling and the demographics are terrible (typical is over 50 male-ratings among the young are very low-they watch the NBA-Frank the Tank had a post on that a year or so back). The Big East deal with Boise provided that at least 70% of the revenue would go to the football schools, despite the strength of Big East basketball.

That was a deal cut to get Boise to join. 2/3rds of revenue under the old Big East deal was assigned to basketball.

If you look at the deal the new Big East received, it ended up being more than those schools would have received had the "optimistic" TV deal happened because that 70% figure did not reflect reality.
07-16-2013 06:00 PM
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Post: #9
RE: "Football Drives The Bus! Football Makes the Money!" Old article says, maybe not
(07-16-2013 06:00 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(07-16-2013 04:46 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(07-16-2013 01:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(07-16-2013 01:24 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  ESPN bought the whole bundle of sticks. Though I doubt the current contract says X dollars is for football and Y dollars are for basketball we know basketball has some portion of that value. Even if football represents more than 1/2 of the value by the time you consider the ACC's revenue from the league basketball tournament and NCAA basketball distribution the league quite likely generates half or more of its income from basketball. That's not even counting the "soft money" ie. the amount some people donate to UNC or Wake Forest solely because they have to be at that donor level to be able to purchase an ACC Tournament ticket. That's real spendable cash for those schools.

I ran CUSA's numbers a bit back. Even if you assumed their two TV contracts were 100% because of football (completely implausible) between their NCAA Tournament revenue and profits from the CUSA Tournament nearly half of their income was basketball related. Once you apportion some value to basketball out of the TV deal, CUSA quite obviously was making more money from basketball than football.

I wasn't paying attention to sports TV contracts back in 2010, so I didn't know until this morning that the ACC, not so long ago, had separate football and basketball contracts. We've all seen the quote from the Clemson AD that 75-80% of the ACC TV contract is from football, but given that 50% of the previous ACC contract was from basketball, that's bonkers. For the 2011 contract, that would mean that the value of ACC basketball stayed the same from 2001 to 2010 while the value of ACC football tripled.

I had thought that the ACC had an all-sports contract for a while when the Clemson AD said that. That would have made it more plausible.

No, things HAVE changed that much. Football ratings and demographics are good. Basketball ratings outside the NCAA tourney are falling and the demographics are terrible (typical is over 50 male-ratings among the young are very low-they watch the NBA-Frank the Tank had a post on that a year or so back). The Big East deal with Boise provided that at least 70% of the revenue would go to the football schools, despite the strength of Big East basketball.

That was a deal cut to get Boise to join. 2/3rds of revenue under the old Big East deal was assigned to basketball.

If you look at the deal the new Big East received, it ended up being more than those schools would have received had the "optimistic" TV deal happened because that 70% figure did not reflect reality.

That was when Boise and Louisville and Rutgers were still in. The reason the basketball schools receive more is that they aren't dragged down by bad matchups. And they aren't splitting it 16 or 17 or 332 or however many schools the Big East was going to be.
07-16-2013 06:12 PM
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RE: "Football Drives The Bus! Football Makes the Money!" Old article says, maybe not
i think a healthy split is 85% 15% in terms of how much of an average schools resources should go to each sport.

football pays the bills, basketball is all profit
07-16-2013 09:53 PM
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Post: #11
RE: "Football Drives The Bus! Football Makes the Money!" Old article says, maybe not
(07-16-2013 05:10 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(07-16-2013 01:13 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  The so the ACC had separate contracts for basketball and football before 2010.
The football contract, which started in 2003-04, was for $258/7 = just under $37M per year.
The basketball contract which started in 2001-02 was for $370/10 = $37M per year.

That old ACC football contract was for a 9-team league that didn't include Miami, VT, and BC. Much less inventory in the 9-team league, and no conference title game, plus that football contract didn't include all ACC FB rights, while the current deal with ESPN does.

The ACC contract didn't get adjusted up when they got Miami?

Quote:Also, the TV value of hoops may have stayed stagnant because the value of hoops on TV is now in the tournament, which means the NCAA, through its CBS/TBS contract for March Madness, has siphoned most of the TV value of college hoops away from the conferences and into the NCAA's bank accounts.

1. That's not something that suddenly happened in the last ten years.
2. This is news to some Fox Sports executives and Big East presidents.

The TV rights for all sporting events are going up. There's no reason that college basketball would be the lone exception.

Quote:The TV revenue paid to the NCAA for March Madness exceeds the TV revenue paid to all conferences combined for regular season and conference tournaments.

Well, if you add up the revenue from the College Football Playoff ($500M), the Rose Bowl ($80M), the Sugar Bowl($80M) and Orange Bowl($60M), that $720M is more than half of the approximately $1.3 billion that power-conference teams earn from TV (65 teams x about $20M per.)

Quote:The Big East deal with Boise provided that at least 70% of the revenue would go to the football schools, despite the strength of Big East basketball.

Not exactly. Now I do think that that clause reflects the thinking of the conference leadership at that point. However, the clause just said that if less than 70% of the broadcast revenue was allocated to football games, Boise STate would have a reduced buyout, $2.5M instead of $5M.
(This post was last modified: 07-16-2013 09:57 PM by johnbragg.)
07-16-2013 09:56 PM
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Post: #12
RE: "Football Drives The Bus! Football Makes the Money!" Old article says, maybe not
(07-16-2013 01:13 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journ...ights.aspx

I was looking for something on Fox's bid for the ACC rights in 2010 because Fox has been looking for a college anchor property for a long time, which is why they paid the Big 12 a ton of money in 2011 (and then the PAC 12 and the Big East).

What surprised me was a little inset box in the article.

Quote:ACC TV rights revenue
Current deals:
Football: 7 years, $258 million with ABC/ESPN through 2010
Basketball: 10 years, $370 million with Raycom Sports through 2010-11
Average per year: $73 million to $75 million
New deal:
Football/basketball: 12 years, $1.86 billion with ABC/ESPN through 2022-23
Average per year: $155 million
Sources: Conference Form 990 filed with the IRS, SportsBusiness Journal

The so the ACC had separate contracts for basketball and football before 2010.
The football contract, which started in 2003-04, was for $258/7 = just under $37M per year.
The basketball contract which started in 2001-02 was for $370/10 = $37M per year.

So the ACC's TV revenue was derived equally from football and basketball. So either this article is wrong, or we can bury the myth of the ACC's TV revenue mostly coming from football.

Don't know why you call it a myth.

http://www.dailypress.com/sports/teel-bl...5710.story

Quote:Swofford estimated that football drives 70-80 percent of rights fees and acknowledged that more national success in that sport would have meant additional revenue.

“We seem to be right on the verge of taking that next step,” Swofford said, not for the first time. “Our main goal … is to have our best teams winning on a national stage.”
07-17-2013 05:29 AM
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johnbragg Offline
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RE: "Football Drives The Bus! Football Makes the Money!" Old article says, maybe not
(07-17-2013 05:29 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  Don't know why you call it a myth.

http://www.dailypress.com/sports/teel-bl...5710.story

Quote:Swofford estimated that football drives 70-80 percent of rights fees

So one the one hand, we have an all-sports contract that combines football and basketball, and Swofford SAYS that football is worth such and such and basketball is worth this and that. A widely believed statement.

On the other hand, we have the separate contracts for ACC football and ACC basketball from 10 years ago which paid roughly equal amounts per year. Actual facts.

When a widely believed statement contradicts actual facts, I call that a myth.

You can argue against the facts--demographic shifts, the college regular season losing value relative to the postseason, increased popularity of football, one-and-dones reducing the popularity of college basketball--but you can't just cite the myth as evidence that the myth is true.
07-17-2013 06:51 AM
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