list was made assuming no Iverson and no Dixon. Now we have Iverson in the fold... if Dixon comes through I have to believe we'd be top 5.

(07-11-2013 07:47 PM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  

(07-11-2013 07:31 PM)Dat.B.Me Wrote:  Kentucky only has 2 guards and 2 wings, thats it! Whats left on the roster at those 3 positions are real insignificant. The expectation of 3 freshman and 1 sophmore is pretty high.

Ditto. I'll take four proven seniors anytime. And, for the record, I think Chris is a much better passer than Joe, as far as point guard skills. Nobody can blow by people like Joe, though. That includes anybody on that top 10 list, too.

Don't tell Louisville fans that. They swear that Chris Jones is the next CP3 lol.

(07-11-2013 08:08 AM)holyterror Wrote:  Given the higher difficulty of our schedule, I agree on Chris. Great guy, passable at PG for stretches against CUSA, but that's it. I'm not down on Chris-I love him. When he's on, he's electrifying! But it's tough to see teams rely on kids to do things they don't have the skills to do.

He should feel right at home then in the AAC.

Who are the top ten guards in the AAC

Russ Smith Lou
Joe Jackson Mph
Geron Johnson Mph
Shabazz Napier UConn
Michael Dixon Mph
Kevin Ware Lou
Chris Jones Lou
Chris Crawford Mph
Ryan Boatright UConn
Sean Kilpatrick Cincy

Some one else take a stab at it.

(07-12-2013 04:32 AM)Dat.B.Me Wrote:  Who are the top ten guards in the AAC

Russ Smith Lou
Joe Jackson Mph
Geron Johnson Mph
Shabazz Napier UConn
Michael Dixon Mph
Kevin Ware Lou
Chris Jones Lou
Chris Crawford Mph
Ryan Boatright UConn
Sean Kilpatrick Cincy

Some one else take a stab at it.

Also rans:

Tony Collins USF
Isiah Sykes UCF (possibly doesn't count as a guard)

(07-11-2013 11:52 PM)Geotag Wrote:  

(07-11-2013 07:47 PM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  

(07-11-2013 07:31 PM)Dat.B.Me Wrote:  Kentucky only has 2 guards and 2 wings, thats it! Whats left on the roster at those 3 positions are real insignificant. The expectation of 3 freshman and 1 sophmore is pretty high.

Ditto. I'll take four proven seniors anytime. And, for the record, I think Chris is a much better passer than Joe, as far as point guard skills. Nobody can blow by people like Joe, though. That includes anybody on that top 10 list, too.

Don't tell Louisville fans that. They swear that Chris Jones is the next CP3 lol.

Chris Jones is awesome, but he's gonna have the same problem that Joe had at first, and that every small point guard has. These kids are a lot bigger in D1 ball.

True but he is what? 22,23 years old?

(07-12-2013 04:32 AM)Dat.B.Me Wrote:  Who are the top ten guards in the AAC

Russ Smith Lou
Joe Jackson Mph
Geron Johnson Mph
Shabazz Napier UConn
Michael Dixon Mph
Kevin Ware Lou
Chris Jones Lou
Chris Crawford Mph
Ryan Boatright UConn
Sean Kilpatrick Cincy

Some one else take a stab at it.

My list would be:

Napier
Dixon
Jackson
Smith
Crawford
Kilpatrick
Boatright
Johnson
Kromah
Calhoun
Ware

Napier is the best all around player in the conference and I say that acutely aware of my Husky Blue glasses. He is efficient, fills up the box score, controls the game and harasses opponents on defense. I'm not sure how to weight the stats of the tigers playing against weaker competition in CUSA vs. the rest of the field, but I do know that the eFG% allowed in Cusa was 50% vs. 47% in the big east. Important to think about when considering the below. In terms of how this all blends together to rank the backcourts as units, I think that depends on how complimentary the skillsets are, but I will say that after crunching the numbers its closer than I thought, and there should be some epic battles next year.

(07-13-2013 02:59 PM)OkaForPrez Wrote:  

(07-12-2013 04:32 AM)Dat.B.Me Wrote:  Who are the top ten guards in the AAC

Russ Smith Lou
Joe Jackson Mph
Geron Johnson Mph
Shabazz Napier UConn
Michael Dixon Mph
Kevin Ware Lou
Chris Jones Lou
Chris Crawford Mph
Ryan Boatright UConn
Sean Kilpatrick Cincy

Some one else take a stab at it.

My list would be:

Napier
Dixon
Jackson
Smith
Crawford
Kilpatrick
Boatright
Johnson
Kromah
Calhoun
Ware

Napier is the best all around player in the conference and I say that acutely aware of my Husky Blue glasses. He is efficient, fills up the box score, controls the game and harasses opponents on defense. I'm not sure how to weight the stats of the tigers playing against weaker competition in CUSA vs. the rest of the field, but I do know that the eFG% allowed in Cusa was 50% vs. 47% in the big east. Important to think about when considering the below. In terms of how this all blends together to rank the backcourts as units, I think that depends on how complimentary the skillsets are, but I will say that after crunching the numbers its closer than I thought, and there should be some epic battles next year.

I think Smith is categorically better than Napier down the line.

Napier and Jackson are a pickem' for secon best guard pre-season in the AAC.

Also, Lulz at Kromah and Calhoun.

(07-13-2013 03:18 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(07-13-2013 02:59 PM)OkaForPrez Wrote:  

(07-12-2013 04:32 AM)Dat.B.Me Wrote:  Who are the top ten guards in the AAC

Russ Smith Lou
Joe Jackson Mph
Geron Johnson Mph
Shabazz Napier UConn
Michael Dixon Mph
Kevin Ware Lou
Chris Jones Lou
Chris Crawford Mph
Ryan Boatright UConn
Sean Kilpatrick Cincy

Some one else take a stab at it.

My list would be:

Napier
Dixon
Jackson
Smith
Crawford
Kilpatrick
Boatright
Johnson
Kromah
Calhoun
Ware

Napier is the best all around player in the conference and I say that acutely aware of my Husky Blue glasses. He is efficient, fills up the box score, controls the game and harasses opponents on defense. I'm not sure how to weight the stats of the tigers playing against weaker competition in CUSA vs. the rest of the field, but I do know that the eFG% allowed in Cusa was 50% vs. 47% in the big east. Important to think about when considering the below. In terms of how this all blends together to rank the backcourts as units, I think that depends on how complimentary the skillsets are, but I will say that after crunching the numbers its closer than I thought, and there should be some epic battles next year.

I think Smith is categorically better than Napier down the line.

Napier and Jackson are a pickem' for secon best guard pre-season in the AAC.

Also, Lulz at Kromah and Calhoun.

Who would you put ahead of them? And what do you mean by down the line?

Keith Frazier and Danuel House could be top-10 AAC guards.

(07-13-2013 04:50 PM)Time4Reason Wrote:  Keith Frazier and Danuel House could be top-10 AAC guards.

House is going to be very good.

Gosh this is going to be fun....that's a lot of good guards in one conference. I can't wait to see Joe and Chris Jones go at it again.

(07-11-2013 03:56 AM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  A team that lost in the first round of the NIT is #1.

What a joke.

Yes it is. First consider the source, Greenberg and ESPN. Next people are arguing as to who has the best backcourt for the upcoming season and no team has yet to play. Any of the teams mentioned as well as others could end up having the best backcourt, frontcourt or best team. We will know by February 2014 or maybe even before. But that won't necessarily predict the team who wins it all. Even educated opinions are nothing more than an opinion. And you know that they say about opinions, they are like ******** and ESPN has their fair share of both.

Would love to win some games in the tourney with our top-notch backcourt. These highly-rated players have to come through at some point.

(07-13-2013 04:29 PM)OkaForPrez Wrote:  Who would you put ahead of them? And what do you mean by down the line?

There are at least 10 other guards that are better (the original posters top 10), plus, I'd argue that the two also rans that I listed are going to be better as well. In fact, I don't see what you could even base an argument on concerning those two being top 10 guards in this league.

Down the line means that Smith is better than Napier at just about everything. Napier may be a slightly better distributor, but Smith is a better defender and a much more prolific scorer, while only shooting a tad less efficiently than Napier. Smith was the most important member of the best team in the NCAA last year, Napier was second most important on a team that would've been in the NIT.

(07-14-2013 11:20 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(07-13-2013 04:29 PM)OkaForPrez Wrote:  Who would you put ahead of them? And what do you mean by down the line?

There are at least 10 other guards that are better (the original posters top 10), plus, I'd argue that the two also rans that I listed are going to be better as well. In fact, I don't see what you could even base an argument on concerning those two being top 10 guards in this league.

Down the line means that Smith is better than Napier at just about everything. Napier may be a slightly better distributor, but Smith is a better defender and a much more prolific scorer, while only shooting a tad less efficiently than Napier. Smith was the most important member of the best team in the NCAA last year, Napier was second most important on a team that would've been in the NIT.

I'll give you the 3rd and 4th best guards in the uconn backcourt as not top 10. I was honestly only pulling stats on the three backcourts listed. You are mistaken on Napier though. He was hands down the best player on UConn. You are understating the massive difference in efficiency, did you look at the stats I posted? Of all the guard listed smith is the least efficient and 7% less from the field than napier. You are considering him the better player because he gets more possessions and shots up in the Louisville offense? Napier has the better A/TO. He rebounds more per game and averages the same steals without playing full court pressure. Napier also scored 52 points in 8 overtime periods last year on 67% from 3 and 91% from the line. He was the definition of clutch. Read more about his season here if you are interested.

Secondly, uconn was absolutely a tournament team last year. They got to 20 wins without conference tournament play and that includes 3 losses down the stretch when the team was short handed due to injuries to napier, giffey and olander who all were DNPs and the suspension of wolf. They had wins over MSU and Syracuse and took Gtown to 2xOT with napier injured for the last 20 min of the game. If you put Deng at the 5 on UConn, they would have been a final four team as well. Their limitations were not in the backcourt.

(07-14-2013 01:37 PM)OkaForPrez Wrote:  

(07-14-2013 11:20 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(07-13-2013 04:29 PM)OkaForPrez Wrote:  Who would you put ahead of them? And what do you mean by down the line?

There are at least 10 other guards that are better (the original posters top 10), plus, I'd argue that the two also rans that I listed are going to be better as well. In fact, I don't see what you could even base an argument on concerning those two being top 10 guards in this league.

Down the line means that Smith is better than Napier at just about everything. Napier may be a slightly better distributor, but Smith is a better defender and a much more prolific scorer, while only shooting a tad less efficiently than Napier. Smith was the most important member of the best team in the NCAA last year, Napier was second most important on a team that would've been in the NIT.

I'll give you the 3rd and 4th best guards in the uconn backcourt as not top 10. I was honestly only pulling stats on the three backcourts listed. You are mistaken on Napier though. He was hands down the best player on UConn. You are understating the massive difference in efficiency, did you look at the stats I posted? Of all the guard listed smith is the least efficient and 7% less from the field than napier. You are considering him the better player because he gets more possessions and shots up in the Louisville offense? Napier has the better A/TO. He rebounds more per game and averages the same steals without playing full court pressure. Napier also scored 52 points in 8 overtime periods last year on 67% from 3 and 91% from the line. He was the definition of clutch. Read more about his season here if you are interested.

Secondly, uconn was absolutely a tournament team last year. They got to 20 wins without conference tournament play and that includes 3 losses down the stretch when the team was short handed due to injuries to napier, giffey and olander who all were DNPs and the suspension of wolf. They had wins over MSU and Syracuse and took Gtown to 2xOT with napier injured for the last 20 min of the game. If you put Deng at the 5 on UConn, they would have been a final four team as well. Their limitations were not in the backcourt.

Quote:while only shooting a tad less efficiently than Napier

Obviously completely untrue; but he will argue with you all day, even though the facts are staring everyone in the face. Get used to stuff like this from him. By every measure known to man, "down the line", Napier is MUCH more efficient than Smith. There isn't anything that Smith did better than Napier.

Everything you said was correct.

I think Rose is going to be a good one too also with Houston now.

(07-14-2013 01:37 PM)OkaForPrez Wrote:  I'll give you the 3rd and 4th best guards in the uconn backcourt as not top 10. I was honestly only pulling stats on the three backcourts listed. You are mistaken on Napier though. He was hands down the best player on UConn. You are understating the massive difference in efficiency, did you look at the stats I posted? Of all the guard listed smith is the least efficient and 7% less from the field than napier. You are considering him the better player because he gets more possessions and shots up in the Louisville offense? Napier has the better A/TO. He rebounds more per game and averages the same steals without playing full court pressure. Napier also scored 52 points in 8 overtime periods last year on 67% from 3 and 91% from the line. He was the definition of clutch. Read more about his season here if you are interested.

Secondly, uconn was absolutely a tournament team last year. They got to 20 wins without conference tournament play and that includes 3 losses down the stretch when the team was short handed due to injuries to napier, giffey and olander who all were DNPs and the suspension of wolf. They had wins over MSU and Syracuse and took Gtown to 2xOT with napier injured for the last 20 min of the game. If you put Deng at the 5 on UConn, they would have been a final four team as well. Their limitations were not in the backcourt.

My opinion on Smith and Napier was formed from watching a lot of games from each player, and the player's stats. Russ is the better scorer and the better defender. He's the more important player on the better team, and he won his team an NCAA title this season. Check out their respective tempo adjusted stats here if you'd like:

Kenpom

You are certainly entitled to your opinion on the subject though.

As for UConn's hypothetical shot at the NCAA's last season, they weren't an NCAA team. Of course, neither you nor I can prove the validity of that statement, but using injuries and suspensions as support for why they would have been an NCAA team is nonsensical. Uconn was about as good as Tennessee last season, and Tennessee was an NIT team.