The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(07-07-2013 11:19 AM)ODU AGGIE Wrote:  Who else should be the face of ODU athletics?

Charles the Monarch (at least until he gets hit by a car, running loose on the city streets).

(07-07-2013 01:35 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(07-07-2013 11:19 AM)ODU AGGIE Wrote:  Who else should be the face of ODU athletics?

Charles the Monarch (at least until he gets hit by a car, running loose on the city streets).

You may well not only have a point but possibly the post of the year!

a definite +1 if I could

(07-07-2013 10:18 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I won't hold my breath waiting for Mr Selig to admit HE was wrong when our basketball program is still fighting for 3rd through 5th in CUSA in a few years.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

THAT'S THE SPIRIT!!!!

(07-07-2013 03:44 PM)djnva Wrote:  

(07-07-2013 10:18 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I won't hold my breath waiting for Mr Selig to admit HE was wrong when our basketball program is still fighting for 3rd through 5th in CUSA in a few years.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

THAT'S THE SPIRIT!!!!

You can talk about the program's recent shortcomings until you're blue in the face. But hey, at least the prediction thread will allow me to practice my penmanship. Specifically the L.

(07-07-2013 11:19 AM)ODU AGGIE Wrote:  Who else should be the face of ODU athletics?

Marvin the Monarch?

(07-07-2013 04:19 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(07-07-2013 11:19 AM)ODU AGGIE Wrote:  Who else should be the face of ODU athletics?

Marvin the Monarch?

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(07-07-2013 03:44 PM)djnva Wrote:  

(07-07-2013 10:18 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I won't hold my breath waiting for Mr Selig to admit HE was wrong when our basketball program is still fighting for 3rd through 5th in CUSA in a few years.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

THAT'S THE SPIRIT!!!!

The dude issued a challenge to the fans of his own university. I think it only fair that he reciprocate if in fact it turns out that it is him, and not us, that is wrong. If the time comes that he needs to replace JJ, then I want an apology during the press conference and an admission that he made a poor choice. Otherwise, he should refrain from taking shots at his own fans and just do his job.

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

(07-07-2013 08:49 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(07-07-2013 03:44 PM)djnva Wrote:  

(07-07-2013 10:18 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I won't hold my breath waiting for Mr Selig to admit HE was wrong when our basketball program is still fighting for 3rd through 5th in CUSA in a few years.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

THAT'S THE SPIRIT!!!!

The dude issued a challenge to the fans of his own university. I think it only fair that he reciprocate if in fact it turns out that it is him, and not us, that is wrong. If the time comes that he needs to replace JJ, then I want an apology during the press conference and an admission that he made a poor choice. Otherwise, he should refrain from taking shots at his own fans and just do his job.

Hope you're not holding your breath on this one.

(07-07-2013 10:25 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(07-07-2013 10:15 AM)jumpshooter Wrote:  We're not close, barely know him, but I like what he's doing with the program. . . . Wood is the face of athletic department change, is what Miller wrote. Who the hell else should be the face of change in an AD, if not the Athletic Director? He's in charge of it. Dealing with the media, generating publicity and exposure is part of the job, something Jarrett failed miserably at.

And '78, the moral terpitude you talk about with JJ happened how many years ago? There is nothing since then to suggest that anything like that has continued, where there was every reason to believe BT wasn't going to stop drinking. I see a difference; obviously you don't, you sound like a "once you eff up, you're tarnished for life and there's nothing you can to make me believe you've changed" kind of guy. I guess you wouldn't have hired Rick Pitino if he'd have been interested? It must be nice being so morally superior.

Actually BT had a drinking problem decades ago and apparently overcame it. We (ODU admin) knew about it. Until last year there was no reason to expect his 'demons' would return.
But they did.

I am not claiming the the moral high ground. Lord knows I am in no position to judge anyone.

I think it likely thst JJ will be fine, but this is NOT about Coach Jones at all.
The issue for me is a program that hires a coach with past issues that are similar to what you are trying to get away from.

Look at Rutgers. It is in a mess.

Think about Penn State. This is an extreme analogy, but will they hire a coach or athletic admin who had even past allegations of sexual or misconduct or engaging in department cover-ups?

I think the timing of the Jeff Jones hire shows a disregard for the integrity of of the program.

As for Rick Pitino; I would not hire him if the guy I just fired was terminated for NCAA violations.
If BT had been fired for committing NCAA violations then my comments on the Jones hire would have been relegated to coaching performance only.

Maybe the above explains where I am coming from.

Not true, 78. BT did 30-days of rehab about 4-5 years ago, probably less

Alcoholism is never cured. It is only kept in remission. Once you become a pickle, you can never again be a cucumber.

If u think bt wasn't drinking during his coaching time at odu prior to last year. U were blind. He was at felinis all the time or out on granby street most nites. It was no secret to anyone but he was winning so it didn't matter. But jj knows what the school went thru hired good assistants and is trying to put together something on the court.

Selig knows he is on a short rope on this and let's just hope it all works out. I believe in two years we will be back.

Hey, Id be drinking after that buzzer beater loss to Butler too...and then to watch VCU make that final 4 run, a team that we knew we were a lot better than!!...talk about pushing a guy over the edge.

(07-08-2013 06:23 AM)workingodu Wrote:  If u think bt wasn't drinking during his coaching time at odu prior to last year. U were blind. He was at felinis all the time or out on granby street most nites. It was no secret to anyone but he was winning so it didn't matter. But jj knows what the school went thru hired good assistants and is trying to put together something on the court.

Selig knows he is on a short rope on this and let's just hope it all works out. I believe in two years we will be back.

There is a difference between drinking and alcoholism. In years past, he was able to function. Call it functional alcoholism or whatever you will, but it was not consuming his life. I frankly had no problem with what he was doing on his own time if it didn't affect his job performance. I had issues with his coaching, but until last season, despite knowing he was drinking, had no reason to believe alcohol was an actual problem. I don't think it is my place to judge someone at the top of their career an alcoholic. I just gave him the benefit of doubt and figured he was never a full blown alcoholic to begin with, but had to say the right things and go through the motions to save his career after the Montana incident. I have been around alcoholism for many years in my life and Blaine Taylor circa 2011 did not fit the mold.

(07-08-2013 05:41 AM)jumpshooter Wrote:  

(07-07-2013 10:25 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(07-07-2013 10:15 AM)jumpshooter Wrote:  We're not close, barely know him, but I like what he's doing with the program. . . . Wood is the face of athletic department change, is what Miller wrote. Who the hell else should be the face of change in an AD, if not the Athletic Director? He's in charge of it. Dealing with the media, generating publicity and exposure is part of the job, something Jarrett failed miserably at.

And '78, the moral terpitude you talk about with JJ happened how many years ago? There is nothing since then to suggest that anything like that has continued, where there was every reason to believe BT wasn't going to stop drinking. I see a difference; obviously you don't, you sound like a "once you eff up, you're tarnished for life and there's nothing you can to make me believe you've changed" kind of guy. I guess you wouldn't have hired Rick Pitino if he'd have been interested? It must be nice being so morally superior.

Actually BT had a drinking problem decades ago and apparently overcame it. We (ODU admin) knew about it. Until last year there was no reason to expect his 'demons' would return.
But they did.

I am not claiming the the moral high ground. Lord knows I am in no position to judge anyone.

I think it likely thst JJ will be fine, but this is NOT about Coach Jones at all.
The issue for me is a program that hires a coach with past issues that are similar to what you are trying to get away from.

Look at Rutgers. It is in a mess.

Think about Penn State. This is an extreme analogy, but will they hire a coach or athletic admin who had even past allegations of sexual or misconduct or engaging in department cover-ups?

I think the timing of the Jeff Jones hire shows a disregard for the integrity of of the program.

As for Rick Pitino; I would not hire him if the guy I just fired was terminated for NCAA violations.
If BT had been fired for committing NCAA violations then my comments on the Jones hire would have been relegated to coaching performance only.

Maybe the above explains where I am coming from.

Not true, 78. BT did 30-days of rehab about 4-5 years ago, probably less

Taylor had a DUI arrest in 1995 when he was the University of Montana's head coach. He voluntarily entered a 28-day rehabilitation program at that time.
ODU hired him in 2001, fully aware of the above.

I am not aware of any rehab since. Source?

Even if true, which I don't think it is, it would not alter my premise.

Obviously, I'm not at liberty to tell you how I know that, or from whom I learned it, so I guess that dead-ends right there, which is fine.

(07-08-2013 08:54 AM)jumpshooter Wrote:  Obviously, I'm not at liberty to tell you how I know that, or from whom I learned it, so I guess that dead-ends right there, which is fine.

That will be very easy to check.
We can just look at a time that BT was absent from work for a month.
It's not like anyone would not notice that.

EDIT: I just got word from a source that you may indeed be correct correct, and indeed more recent than 4 years ago.

That still doesn't alter my initial assessment one iota though. In fact it bolsters my premise that hiring a coach with similar issues within a similar (over a decade) time frame as the one just fired is a big risk.

(07-08-2013 08:58 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(07-08-2013 08:54 AM)jumpshooter Wrote:  Obviously, I'm not at liberty to tell you how I know that, or from whom I learned it, so I guess that dead-ends right there, which is fine.

That will be very easy to check.
We can just look at a time that BT was absent from work for a month.
It's not like anyone would not notice that.

EDIT: I just got word from a source that you may indeed be correct correct, and indeed more recent than 4 years ago.

That still doesn't alter my initial assessment one iota though. In fact it bolsters my premise that hiring a coach with similar issues within a similar (over a decade) time frame as the one just fired is a big risk.

How is this the reason you are perturbed by the hire? Its been 15 years since any issues related to JJs personal life had an effect on his career. Further, the man was put in career exile and went through a divorce. These are two huge changes that would force most to recognize that a change is necessary. From all accounts, the man has been a good soldier for the better part of two decades and IMO that shows he recognized and tackled the changes that needed to be made.

Edit: If you have an issue with the hire, that's fine. You can bemoan the misleading statements by WS, the inability to land a coach who took his team to the tourney last season, the probability that they will continue to struggle to score 60, AU's failures last season, etc. But your issues with the hire shouldn't be related with JJs personal life.

'13, thanks for making my point so much better than I've been able to

(07-08-2013 10:00 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(07-08-2013 08:58 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(07-08-2013 08:54 AM)jumpshooter Wrote:  Obviously, I'm not at liberty to tell you how I know that, or from whom I learned it, so I guess that dead-ends right there, which is fine.

That will be very easy to check.
We can just look at a time that BT was absent from work for a month.
It's not like anyone would not notice that.

EDIT: I just got word from a source that you may indeed be correct correct, and indeed more recent than 4 years ago.

That still doesn't alter my initial assessment one iota though. In fact it bolsters my premise that hiring a coach with similar issues within a similar (over a decade) time frame as the one just fired is a big risk.

How is this the reason you are perturbed by the hire? It's been 15 years since any issues related to JJs personal life had an effect on his career. Further, the man was put in career exile and went through a divorce. These are two huge changes that would force most to recognize that a change is necessary. The man has been a good soldier for the better part of two decades, it's clear that he recognized and tackled the changes that needed to be made.

It was 16 years (1995 -2011) between BTs issues.
Additionally, JJs issues not only included womanizing and drinking, but almost a lack of institutional control (thug players).

It is about and integrity of ODU.
I fired a few people in my time for cause. I cannot imagine hiring a replacement for a termination who had been guilty of the same offense, no matter how long ago it occurred.

Scenarios:
Program A fires a coach for DUI, and then knowingly hires another coach who had had a DUI years ago but has been clean for 15 years. In the 16th year he gets drunk and kills a student at a crosswalk.
What happens; from a standpoint of liability and reputation. Civil lawsuits? Big time because the Institution had knowledge of the issue.

Program B fires a coach for "lack of moral leadership" and knowingly hires a coach that had moral turpitude issues in his past as a replacement, but has been "clean" for 15 years.
He gets this new job far away from his home, and his wife has to stay home for her business.
Night after lonely night he watches TV and game films. One night he gets bored and goes out to grab a beer. He happens to run into a starry eyed cheerleader with whom he frequently interacts as part of his job.
One thing leads to another. It's bad if she is of age, it is horrific if she is not.

C'mon guys. The above scenario could happen to anyone, I dare say many of us in fact.

In both instances; that the school knows of past issues could be somewhat of a problem.
However, that the school is showing a PATTERN is huge; legally and morally.

Look, this is not the NFL or the NBA. The expectation is that we as an institution do everything in our power to protect our students, indeed our children.

EDIT: I must be showing my age and the fact I am the father of three girls.
Don't get me wrong, I am no saint and I am not judging JJ at all. I am concerned that ODU is already showing early signs of putting athletics and winning ahead of the welfare and integrity of the university.

What career/personal hurdles had BT faced after that DUI and the 6 years between his hiring at ODU? He got off relatively easy on the DUI, marriage stayed in tact, kept his job at Montana (for 3 more years) and continued to climb the career ladder. He didn't have a real learning experience or hit a wall (personal or career-wise) until deep into his tenure at ODU (and arguably, until he was fired by ODU). As for JJ, he knows the circumstances. He's been humbled. He's recovered. He's changed.

As for your hypotheticals, they're flawed. In A, the coach would face litigation (both criminal and civil) and be fired, etc. The only organization that could be held accountable in this instance would be the bar that over-served the hypothetical coach. You cannot legally hold an organization accountable for an employees' crime when it has absolutely nothing to do with their work or wasn't in the course of their day-to-day duties? If I'm wrong, feel free to provide one real-life example where this has happened.

In B, you act as if he wasn't on the road a ton while coaching at American. Between away games and recruiting, I'm sure he was "lonely" quite a bit and ended up making the correct choices.

You continually state these arguments as if no circumstances in JJs life have changed. When in fact, a lot has for JJ. He's gotten older (Coeds aren't fans of manboobs or wrinkles), wiser, and spent a decade-plus slogging away in obscurity. The man is thankful for this opportunity and will cherish it. ODU is a career-parachute for the man, he won't throw it away for a night on Granby Street. Lastly, have you seen JJ? Do you really think a 21 year-old (who was barely speaking or walking during his elite eight run) will get starry eyed by JJ? Most won't know or care who he is.