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If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
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chargeradio Offline
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Post: #21
If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and w
I'd go with WVU and TCU. UK already gives us a presence in the Cincinnati market (the three counties underneath Cincinnati have a are roughly 1/8 of Kentucky's population). Adding TCU keeps the Big 12/Pac 16 out of Dallas-Ft. Worth.
07-08-2013 08:55 PM
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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #22
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
Just feels wrong adding a northern school like Cincy to the SEC.

plus, isnt their stadium incapable of expanding beyond 45K because its totally surrounded by buildings and built in a hillside depression?
07-08-2013 10:50 PM
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Pony94 Offline
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Post: #23
If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and w
(07-08-2013 10:50 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Just feels wrong adding a northern school like Cincy to the SEC.

plus, isnt their stadium incapable of expanding beyond 45K because its totally surrounded by buildings and built in a hillside depression?

A&M fully supports Tech
07-08-2013 10:51 PM
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oklalittledixie Offline
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Post: #24
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
I have to stray from the Kansas choice. They aren't a very good football program. Maybe you are looking at it from a different angle.

Some options:

The state of Oklahoma is southern and OU would be a good cultural fit. Oklahoma also belongs in a conference with Alabama. An elite program that would be a great addition to the already elite conference. A border war with Arkansas would be epic.

Oklahoma State would probably have to come along. Their academics would be an issue. Another great rival for Arkansas

Texas. Sooner or later the SEC is going to have to lure Texas or the Pac 12 will. Snagging a team like Oklahoma might start that process. They are stubborn and want to run the show.

Miami to expand into the south Florida Market. Cons. Violation prone.

North Carolina. Cultural fit and expansion into the Atlantic coast market
07-08-2013 11:14 PM
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oklalittledixie Offline
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Post: #25
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
(07-08-2013 08:55 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  I'd go with WVU and TCU. UK already gives us a presence in the Cincinnati market (the three counties underneath Cincinnati have a are roughly 1/8 of Kentucky's population). Adding TCU keeps the Big 12/Pac 16 out of Dallas-Ft. Worth.

I was going to add WVU but didn't the SEC already deny their application?
07-08-2013 11:15 PM
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oklalittledixie Offline
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Post: #26
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
(07-07-2013 06:50 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(07-06-2013 08:54 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Let's assume the ACC stands firm with their recent additions and that everyone has indeed signed their GOR and that they get their network. Should Texas and Oklahoma realize the disadvantage long term that their conference is in and the Big 12 was suddenly open for the taking of new members who should the SEC add and why?

To me the ideal additions would be Kansas & Oklahoma. We would likely find ourselves in head to head competition with the Big 10 for these schools. Kansas is a better cultural fit for the Big 10. Oklahoma could fit in just about anywhere. I think the ideal here is highly unlikely. So my goal would be to add the Sooners and West Virginia. The Mountaineers would be joyous to be a part of the SEC and that is worth a lot to me. Oklahoma might choose the Big 10 but if they do in my opinion they will wind up like Nebraska, good, but a shadow of their former selves. Personally, I think they need Southern recruiting ties to stay viable.

If the Sooners did go elsewhere the Cowboys are fine with me. They are top 25 in profitability and are competitive in all sports.

A fair assessment for sure. I don't really think Kansas would be a proper pick up for the SEC. Missouri can help with the markets there in time. WVU has more of an upside for the SEC than Kansas does. Granted, I understand Kansas's power in basketball but you guys have schools that are slowly improving in basketball.

Kansas isn't as strong as they are by recruiting their area, they recruit basketball nationally. West Virginia and the Beltway is a much better place for the SEC to expand to in regards to making the SEC better at basketball across the board.

If Oklahoma decided to go to the SEC, I would completely understand the logic. I would disagree with it of course and I think Sooner football would continue to slide from the prominence it used to have. It would be similar to Arkansas in the SEC in terms of football.


OSU on the other hand is better prepared for the situation it would be dropped into in regards to joining the SEC. They have been growing with that chip on their shoulder. They have been expanding facilities and upgrading all over the place as the stat you stated about them shows.

It's not that I think an OSU/WVU combo is the Best possible addition for the SEC when it comes to Big 12 schools but I think it is one that Slive and company should definitely be open to should this type of scenario ever become an actual possibility. The way those two schools would slide right into a 4 pod/division system in the SEC just can't be denied.

I don't agree with that statement at all. Oklahoma has a winning record against the SEC. We manhandled A&M on regular basis. Look at them in the SEC. I think you would find OU to be among the top football programs each and every year in the SEC.
07-08-2013 11:24 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #27
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
(07-08-2013 11:15 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 08:55 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  I'd go with WVU and TCU. UK already gives us a presence in the Cincinnati market (the three counties underneath Cincinnati have a are roughly 1/8 of Kentucky's population). Adding TCU keeps the Big 12/Pac 16 out of Dallas-Ft. Worth.

I was going to add WVU but didn't the SEC already deny their application?

They weren't told no. They were told not yet.
07-08-2013 11:47 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
(07-08-2013 10:50 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Just feels wrong adding a northern school like Cincy to the SEC.

plus, isnt their stadium incapable of expanding beyond 45K because its totally surrounded by buildings and built in a hillside depression?

Yes, the stadium expansion potential is limited. That being said, I find it difficult to justify Cincy with UK to the south and the option of WVU to the east.

I just feel at this point that if the SEC expands it needs to do so in such a why to get to 3 even divisions. Either 15 or 18 work for me. I just don't think 4x4 divisions would work at the college level.
07-09-2013 07:07 AM
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bigblueblindness Offline
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Post: #29
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
I may have too narrow a view, but the only additions to the SEC since the initial launch have been 4 flagship schools. According to history, recent rumors, apparent SEC aspirations and goals, etc., I don't see that changing. I continue to believe that the list is Oklahoma, Kansas, North Carolina, Virginia, and West Virginia in some order. Texas has big question marks. Other than those schools, I don't see any more true options. I would love to see other programs in the SEC (namely FSU, Clemson, Ga. Tech, and/or Va. Tech), but history does not suggest it is likely.
07-09-2013 10:46 AM
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USAFMEDIC Offline
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Post: #30
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
(07-09-2013 07:07 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 10:50 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Just feels wrong adding a northern school like Cincy to the SEC.

plus, isnt their stadium incapable of expanding beyond 45K because its totally surrounded by buildings and built in a hillside depression?

Yes, the stadium expansion potential is limited. That being said, I find it difficult to justify Cincy with UK to the south and the option of WVU to the east.

I just feel at this point that if the SEC expands it needs to do so in such a why to get to 3 even divisions. Either 15 or 18 work for me. I just don't think 4x4 divisions would work at the college level.
They could sign a contract with the NFL stadium there I guess.
07-09-2013 11:35 AM
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USAFMEDIC Offline
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Post: #31
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
(07-08-2013 11:14 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  I have to stray from the Kansas choice. They aren't a very good football program. Maybe you are looking at it from a different angle.

Some options:

The state of Oklahoma is southern and OU would be a good cultural fit. Oklahoma also belongs in a conference with Alabama. An elite program that would be a great addition to the already elite conference. A border war with Arkansas would be epic.

Oklahoma State would probably have to come along. Their academics would be an issue. Another great rival for Arkansas

Texas. Sooner or later the SEC is going to have to lure Texas or the Pac 12 will. Snagging a team like Oklahoma might start that process. They are stubborn and want to run the show.

Miami to expand into the south Florida Market. Cons. Violation prone.

North Carolina. Cultural fit and expansion into the Atlantic coast market

I do agree with your points about the PAC 12. Eventually they have to deal with the Big XII schools. They have no other options that meets their requirements. If the SEC doesn't grab a couple, the PAC 12 or B1G will. I do not believe the Sooners fit the PAC 12 liberal culture. I also believe their goal is not to play Northern schools all year, every year. The only upside is playing their old rival Nebraska again. I still believe they would be a natural fit for the SEC.
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2013 12:00 PM by USAFMEDIC.)
07-09-2013 11:40 AM
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bigblueblindness Offline
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Post: #32
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
(07-09-2013 11:40 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 11:14 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

I do agree with your points about the PAC 12. Eventually they have to deal with the Big XII schools. They have no other options that meets their requirements. If the SEC doesn't grab a couple, the PAC 12 or B1G will. I do not believe the Sooners fit the PAC 12 liberal culture. I also believe their goal is not to play Northern schools all year, every year. The only upside is playing their old rival Nebraska again. I still believe they would be a natural fit for the SEC.

Based on what I've heard lately, I think Oklahoma is similar to UNC in terms of how the state views the SEC compared to the school's administration. In Oklahoma's case, I think their view that Oklahoma is not a SEC cultural fit is more of a wish than fact. Every academic indicator shows Oklahoma as an average SEC school (very good comparison is Tennessee). I will give UNC that they would be considered top tier in the SEC in terms of academics (cheating scandal not withstanding). However, they are not without peers. Florida, TAMU, and Mizzou are certainly peers, and Alabama, Georgia, and Auburn are not far behind. I will concede that Kansas just feels like a Big 10 school, and UVA is not an ideal cultural fit. UNC, WVU, and Oklahoma really do not fit another profile better than the SEC, though.
07-09-2013 12:36 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #33
RE: If the SEC did expand again
WVU is a natural fit in the SEC, however. A recent study by Emory Sports Marketing Analytics ([/i]@sportsmktprof[/i]) showed states ranked based on their percentile rank of share of Twitter voice for college football (eg: Alabama has the highest % of college football related tweets, thus a percentile rank of 100)...

The top 5 states were...
1. Alabama
2. Mississippi
3. Tennessee
4. South Carolina
5. West Virginia
07-09-2013 01:45 PM
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oklalittledixie Offline
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Post: #34
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
(07-09-2013 12:36 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  
(07-09-2013 11:40 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 11:14 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

I do agree with your points about the PAC 12. Eventually they have to deal with the Big XII schools. They have no other options that meets their requirements. If the SEC doesn't grab a couple, the PAC 12 or B1G will. I do not believe the Sooners fit the PAC 12 liberal culture. I also believe their goal is not to play Northern schools all year, every year. The only upside is playing their old rival Nebraska again. I still believe they would be a natural fit for the SEC.

Based on what I've heard lately, I think Oklahoma is similar to UNC in terms of how the state views the SEC compared to the school's administration. In Oklahoma's case, I think their view that Oklahoma is not a SEC cultural fit is more of a wish than fact. Every academic indicator shows Oklahoma as an average SEC school (very good comparison is Tennessee). I will give UNC that they would be considered top tier in the SEC in terms of academics (cheating scandal not withstanding). However, they are not without peers. Florida, TAMU, and Mizzou are certainly peers, and Alabama, Georgia, and Auburn are not far behind. I will concede that Kansas just feels like a Big 10 school, and UVA is not an ideal cultural fit. UNC, WVU, and Oklahoma really do not fit another profile better than the SEC, though.

This is probably the best assessment. The wish is not shared by many. It's shared by a select few at the top. It has to do with Boren wishing Oklahoma could align with a school like Cal. It's ridiculous and has hurt us in the recent years. A&M finally saw the writing on the wall. I hope one day our administrators do as well.
07-09-2013 01:56 PM
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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #35
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
The OU admin wants the academics of the PAC but they also understand the political reality: that they will never leave UT and have to be able to bring OSU too.

Only the Big 12 and PAC can satisfy those requirements as no one else is willing to take all 4 Texoma teams who are politically tied to each other.
07-09-2013 02:39 PM
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bigblueblindness Offline
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Post: #36
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
(07-09-2013 01:56 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  
(07-09-2013 12:36 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  
(07-09-2013 11:40 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 11:14 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

I do agree with your points about the PAC 12. Eventually they have to deal with the Big XII schools. They have no other options that meets their requirements. If the SEC doesn't grab a couple, the PAC 12 or B1G will. I do not believe the Sooners fit the PAC 12 liberal culture. I also believe their goal is not to play Northern schools all year, every year. The only upside is playing their old rival Nebraska again. I still believe they would be a natural fit for the SEC.

Based on what I've heard lately, I think Oklahoma is similar to UNC in terms of how the state views the SEC compared to the school's administration. In Oklahoma's case, I think their view that Oklahoma is not a SEC cultural fit is more of a wish than fact. Every academic indicator shows Oklahoma as an average SEC school (very good comparison is Tennessee). I will give UNC that they would be considered top tier in the SEC in terms of academics (cheating scandal not withstanding). However, they are not without peers. Florida, TAMU, and Mizzou are certainly peers, and Alabama, Georgia, and Auburn are not far behind. I will concede that Kansas just feels like a Big 10 school, and UVA is not an ideal cultural fit. UNC, WVU, and Oklahoma really do not fit another profile better than the SEC, though.

This is probably the best assessment. The wish is not shared by many. It's shared by a select few at the top. It has to do with Boren wishing Oklahoma could align with a school like Cal. It's ridiculous and has hurt us in the recent years. A&M finally saw the writing on the wall. I hope one day our administrators do as well.

Good comment... embrace who you are and be the best at it. Oklahoma should worry about training their citizens to do what is critically important for the state of Oklahoma. WVU alums are always taking up for their low academic rating because the school focuses on skills and training for what is most important to their state. Those areas of expertise may not be high brow that gets international attention, but it is critical for their population. In terms of overall culture, Oklahoma and North Carolina just seem like such obvious choices. There is major diversity within the SEC on some specifics, but the overall culture is such that the similarities are embraced and the differences are used for good natured rivalry banter or to complement the strengths of each other (see the pretty decent football rivalry between Ole Miss and Vandy. In what other alternate universe does this happen?). I really do hope that the pieces fall in such a way that Oklahoma and UNC are the next additions.
07-09-2013 03:35 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #37
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
(07-09-2013 11:40 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 11:14 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  I have to stray from the Kansas choice. They aren't a very good football program. Maybe you are looking at it from a different angle.

Some options:

The state of Oklahoma is southern and OU would be a good cultural fit. Oklahoma also belongs in a conference with Alabama. An elite program that would be a great addition to the already elite conference. A border war with Arkansas would be epic.

Oklahoma State would probably have to come along. Their academics would be an issue. Another great rival for Arkansas

Texas. Sooner or later the SEC is going to have to lure Texas or the Pac 12 will. Snagging a team like Oklahoma might start that process. They are stubborn and want to run the show.

Miami to expand into the south Florida Market. Cons. Violation prone.

North Carolina. Cultural fit and expansion into the Atlantic coast market

I do agree with your points about the PAC 12. Eventually they have to deal with the Big XII schools. They have no other options that meets their requirements. If the SEC doesn't grab a couple, the PAC 12 or B1G will. I do not believe the Sooners fit the PAC 12 liberal culture. I also believe their goal is not to play Northern schools all year, every year. The only upside is playing their old rival Nebraska again. I still believe they would be a natural fit for the SEC.

They would have their game against Nebraska. They would maintain ties to Kansas. The Head Coaches of Oklahoma and Iowa have history together as was talked about constantly for their Bowl Game.

The Admin of Oklahoma would absolutely push Oklahoma towards the Big Ten instead of the SEC. They would probably face some blowback on that from fans and some alumni but so did President Loh of Maryland. As long as Oklahoma can maintain it's key rivalries of Texas and Oklahoma State, then it would be just fine.

They most certainly would have a better chance to win or finish strongly in the Big Ten and the Big Ten will Never be cut out of the National Picture. Oklahoma could definitely take advantage of that.

Sure there might be some fan support for an SEC move instead but there is no way that the persons making the decisions would choose the SEC over the B1G, in my opinion.
07-09-2013 04:29 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #38
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
(07-09-2013 02:39 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  The OU admin wants the academics of the PAC but they also understand the political reality: that they will never leave UT and have to be able to bring OSU too.

Only the Big 12 and PAC can satisfy those requirements as no one else is willing to take all 4 Texoma teams who are politically tied to each other.

The Political equation is that the schools cant be in unequivalent conferences. Why would the State care if one school is in the Big Ten and one is in the SEC? I could see why the State would care about one team leaving and the other gets stuck in a gutted conference. That makes sense but thinking it is anything more than that is taking the concept far past rationality.
07-09-2013 04:31 PM
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LSUtah Offline
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Post: #39
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
(07-08-2013 06:21 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 03:10 PM)LSUtah Wrote:  
(07-06-2013 10:21 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  I would add Oklahoma for sure. But I would add Cincinnati before I added anyone else. The potential market is just to great to pass up.

Cincinnati?? You are joking, right?
No. I'm not joking at all. Cincy would be a great addition to the east division.

Maybe on NCAA "create your own conference" it is. The SEC will add a flagship school when it does expand again...not a city school (and there are certainly larger markets than Cincinnati) that will always be second fiddle in-state playing in an FCS stadium. Some combination of West Virginia, Va Tech, a North Carolina program or a Kansas program. Cinci just ain't happening my friend...and you may be the 1st SEC poster I have ever seen actually support the notion. Gross.
07-09-2013 06:13 PM
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oklalittledixie Offline
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Post: #40
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
(07-09-2013 02:39 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  The OU admin wants the academics of the PAC but they also understand the political reality: that they will never leave UT and have to be able to bring OSU too.

Only the Big 12 and PAC can satisfy those requirements as no one else is willing to take all 4 Texoma teams who are politically tied to each other.

I don't agree that this will always be the case. This has to do with a dream from an aging University President. An Oklahoma in the SEC would not need a Texas.
07-09-2013 07:23 PM
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