(07-05-2013 04:12 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(07-05-2013 02:17 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-05-2013 01:33 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(07-05-2013 11:40 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(07-05-2013 10:42 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Thats true, but just hiring assistants is like playing russian roulette. You're going to get burned eventually. As a fellow Johnnie, how well did our last assistant coach hired as head coach fare? He had all the credentials that you want to see in an assistant. Looked like a great hire, but never panned out. THEN we hired a former UCLA coach who had great success before being fired. Hmmmmm that sounds like someone else on the market right now.

I just think Howland is going to kill it at whatever school lands him. I think he has a nice chip on his shoulder after winning the Pac then being fired.

I don't think it's a matter of "just hiring assistants" any more than it''s about hiring someone based on his reputation.

I think it comes down to finding someone who is a good coach and projecting him forward into you program and then deciding if you think he'll have success there. Collier has proven that he is able to do that on a very high level and with consistently successful results.

One of the things that Collier has emphasized is hiring coaches who have ties to Indiana and to the Midwest in general. I think that's very important for recruiting purposes. Any coach at a place like butler is going to have to build rapport with high school and AAU coaches. Stevens' low key manner was perfect for Midwestern sensibilities. It might not play so well in NYC, but it's perfect in Indiana.

I like Howland a lot, but he would have to come into Butler and start from zero and do it as an outsider. At Pitt, he recruited heavily in NY and the East Coast but not so much in the Midwest. Aside from Pitt his experience was West Coast at Northern Arizona & UCLA. His experience is also and big universities. I think it's asking a lot for him to go into a place like Butler and be successful right away.

It is also about the culture and how they do things. It is no small deal at Butler and Howland has not been part of that culture. You can argue it but that is how they think and it has worked for them.

Oh wait, so we shouldn't make assumptions about how other schools think because we haven't been there? What a LOVELY idea!

Are you attacking just to be difficult? No one said other schools cultures don't have value just that Butler values their culture highly and want people who understand it and lived it. Hence the job will go to one of the two assistants. Given their track record of success it appears to be a formula that works. Do you have data that says it doesn't?

I am more interested in what happens with Drew and his statistical work. He developed unique algorithms that measured groups of players and showed what groups played more effectively together than other groups. Unlike other aspects of coaching that is intellectual property Butler should be protecting and insuring the next coach maintains.

That's a fairly easy replacement. Grab a kid from the Sloan Sports conference, et voila. It's collective +/- in pairs, threes and 5s (and the same scouting for the opponent). Really not rocket science unless you're a sports writer that has trouble with basic math.

(07-06-2013 06:13 AM)thegalen Wrote:  

(07-05-2013 04:12 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(07-05-2013 02:17 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-05-2013 01:33 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(07-05-2013 11:40 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  I don't think it's a matter of "just hiring assistants" any more than it''s about hiring someone based on his reputation.

I think it comes down to finding someone who is a good coach and projecting him forward into you program and then deciding if you think he'll have success there. Collier has proven that he is able to do that on a very high level and with consistently successful results.

One of the things that Collier has emphasized is hiring coaches who have ties to Indiana and to the Midwest in general. I think that's very important for recruiting purposes. Any coach at a place like butler is going to have to build rapport with high school and AAU coaches. Stevens' low key manner was perfect for Midwestern sensibilities. It might not play so well in NYC, but it's perfect in Indiana.

I like Howland a lot, but he would have to come into Butler and start from zero and do it as an outsider. At Pitt, he recruited heavily in NY and the East Coast but not so much in the Midwest. Aside from Pitt his experience was West Coast at Northern Arizona & UCLA. His experience is also and big universities. I think it's asking a lot for him to go into a place like Butler and be successful right away.

It is also about the culture and how they do things. It is no small deal at Butler and Howland has not been part of that culture. You can argue it but that is how they think and it has worked for them.

Oh wait, so we shouldn't make assumptions about how other schools think because we haven't been there? What a LOVELY idea! :coffee3:

Are you attacking just to be difficult? No one said other schools cultures don't have value just that Butler values their culture highly and want people who understand it and lived it. Hence the job will go to one of the two assistants. Given their track record of success it appears to be a formula that works. Do you have data that says it doesn't?

I am more interested in what happens with Drew and his statistical work. He developed unique algorithms that measured groups of players and showed what groups played more effectively together than other groups. Unlike other aspects of coaching that is intellectual property Butler should be protecting and insuring the next coach maintains.

That's a fairly easy replacement. Grab a kid from the Sloan Sports conference, et voila. It's collective +/- in pairs, threes and 5s (and the same scouting for the opponent). Really not rocket science unless you're a sports writer that has trouble with basic math.

I don't know because I haven't seen the algarythims but I get the sense it is more than just a simple plus/minus.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketba...ad-stevens

Brandon Miller named new coach for Butler. Former Butler guard from 99-03. Assistant under Thad Matta for 6 yrs. I like the hire!

(07-05-2013 02:15 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-05-2013 01:01 PM)Wolfpack Ram Wrote:  

(07-05-2013 11:40 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  I like Howland a lot, but he would have to come into Butler and start from zero and do it as an outsider. At Pitt, he recruited heavily in NY and the East Coast but not so much in the Midwest. Aside from Pitt his experience was West Coast at Northern Arizona & UCLA. His experience is also and big universities. I think it's asking a lot for him to go into a place like Butler and be successful right away.

I don't think Howland will be considered for the job, but hiring someone with strong recruiting ties to the east coast and northeast might be exactly what Butler needs. They are no longer in a "midwest" dominated conference. They need to expand their recruiting territory to the east if they want to compete in the Big East.

Also, Howland has shown he can succeed in both the east and west coast. I would bet good money that he would also have success in the mid-west.

I really wouldn't say they have to expand their recruiting territory to the east necessarily. The Big East is really an interesting conference now- half is eastern but half is Midwest. If Butler can recruit in Indy, Chicago, Milwaukee, Columbus, Cincy, and Cleveland- they could be ok.

Also, for Butler, the Big East is a lot more Midwest than the A10 ever was going to be for them.

(07-06-2013 12:35 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  He won the Pac-12 this year. Also he didn't take over a losing program. Lavin had gone to 5 sweet sixteens in 6 years and was fired after missing the tourny once.

I said technically took over a losing program. Lavin's last season at UCLA was 11-19 IIRC.

Butler just picked up Coach Chris Holtmann from Gardner Webb to join staff as an assistant.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketba...rdner-webb

(07-15-2013 11:10 AM)BigmanU Wrote:  Butler just picked up Coach Chris Holtmann from Gardner Webb to join staff as an assistant.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketba...rdner-webb

Wow! That's a great get. Groce's a good coach, so Holtmann brings a good pedigree.

This is also a compliment to Butler and to the Big East in general. Clearly Holtmann is positioning his career path to get himself ready for a major head coaching job. He went out and got himself some head coaching experience. What this ove says to me is that he sees the combination of Butler and the Big East as being a high profile situation so that he can use an assistant's job there as a sprinboard to a to head coaching job at a major cllege program.