Big jump for Xavier. Their new league is about equal to ours when it comes to quality basketball teams top to bottom. Both will have 4-6 teams in the NCAA tournament most years.

(07-01-2013 05:36 PM)CincyBro Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 02:18 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  This is a great move for them. They jumped from essentially the 7th best conference to what I think will be the 3rd best conference (after the ACC and Big 10).

It's also a big jump in academic prestige. X was near the top of the A-10 academically, but they're near the bottom of the Big East. Associating yourself with better schools tends to raise your image, similar to how UC's image improved in 2005.

Personally, I'm happy for them. I don't think that it hurts UC in any way. There's no reason our great city can't have two top-tier basketball teams.

No way it's the 3rd best league. Big XII and AAC will be better, also might want to include PAC XII in there.

The only downside of the Big East is that there's no "king" of the conference like KU or UK. But their depth is incredible, almost as deep as the old Big East was (once you adjust for number of teams in the conference). I'd match their top 60% against any conference in the country (i.e. vs the top 8-9 Big 10 schools) and I bet they'd go .500.

Here's how I'd rank the programs:
Georgetown < UConn
Creighton < Cincinnati
Villanova = Temple
Marquette > Memphis
Butler >>> Houston
Xavier >>> USF
St. John's > UCF
Depaul > Tulsa
Providence > Tulane
Seton Hall > SMU, ECU

Other than the top two, the Big East is undoubtedly better than the AAC.

Outside the top squad, the Big East is undoubtedly better than the PAC-12, too. The PAC-12 has only had one school (UCLA) reach a final four in the last decade (compared to four in the Big East). And no one in the BE is as bad as Colorado, OSU, ASU, or WSU. Those four schools have combined for 10 tournament appearances in the last 25 years.

You could make an argument that the Big 12 is better than the BE because the B12 seems to have good and bad years top-to-bottom. They're about equal most years, but the Big 12 has some big down years, and adding TCU was a huge drop in competition for them. I'd call them about equal, with the BE having a slight edge due to higher attendance and being in regions where fanbases care more about basketball, leading to longer-term success.

I can't find any objective criteria that would suggest the new BE will be the third best conference for basketball; this season or ever again. The loss of the leading teams and the prestige associated with being one of six "BCS" conferences has irreparably damaged the league's image. Already gone: ESPN contract/coverage, Big Monday, SEC/Big East Challenge, recent national champs Louisville and UConn, nation's #1 attendance program (Syracuse) and Notre Dame with their unique national following. The conference is just a shadow of what it was.

From a resource perspective, it's not even close to the power five. Just look at the B12 as an example. Besides traditional power Kansas, you've got a number of programs such as Texas, Oklahoma, Baylor, Oklahoma State, Kansas State and West Virginia. All these programs are loaded with money and big-time fanbases and are poised for postseason success.

(07-02-2013 07:50 AM)indycat Wrote:  I can't find any objective criteria that would suggest the new BE will be the third best conference for basketball; this season or ever again. The loss of the leading teams and the prestige associated with being one of six "BCS" conferences has irreparably damaged the league's image. Already gone: ESPN contract/coverage, Big Monday, SEC/Big East Challenge, recent national champs Louisville and UConn, nation's #1 attendance program (Syracuse) and Notre Dame with their unique national following. The conference is just a shadow of what it was.

From a resource perspective, it's not even close to the power five. Just look at the B12 as an example. Besides traditional power Kansas, you've got a number of programs such as Texas, Oklahoma, Baylor, Oklahoma State, Kansas State and West Virginia. All these programs are loaded with money and big-time fanbases and are poised for postseason success.

A whole lot of overrating is going on in with new Big East. They are going be a solid three to five bid league most years but you can say the same thing about the American, SEC, Big XII, PAC-12, and the Mountain West.

In most years I expect that league to be the 7th or 8th best league in the nation. It has a whole lot of underdog type programs that traditionally don't earn high seeds in the NCAA tournament which brings it down a notch or two. In a lot of ways its like the Mountain West in that it has some very good programs but none that you feel are a threat to win a national championship anytime soon based on the their talent level. The American at least has UConn and Memphis in the category of NBA-level recruits that you need for a national title plus solid programs like Cincinnati and Temple.

(07-02-2013 08:26 AM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  A whole lot of overrating is going on in with new Big East. They are going be a solid three to five bid league most years but you can say the same thing about the American, SEC, Big XII, PAC-12, and the Mountain West.

The difference lies at the bottom -- the Big East has an OK floor of programs, the American has Tulane (who would struggle to beat good high school squads most years), SMU and ECU.

The last time any of those schools made the tournament, Bill Clinton was President.

(07-02-2013 09:43 AM)#41 Wrote:  

(07-02-2013 08:26 AM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  A whole lot of overrating is going on in with new Big East. They are going be a solid three to five bid league most years but you can say the same thing about the American, SEC, Big XII, PAC-12, and the Mountain West.

The difference lies at the bottom -- the Big East has an OK floor of programs, the American has Tulane (who would struggle to beat good high school squads most years), SMU and ECU.

The last time any of those schools made the tournament, Bill Clinton was President.

True about the bottom of the AAC but that can also be said of the PAC12 and SEC most years. So, going back to the NewBE for instance, X will now have to win road games @ Seton Hall and Providence instead of say Fordham and Rhode Island. They will have more losses in the BE than the A10 but won't have the opportunties for as many quality wins as UC always had (Louisville, UConn, SU, ND, Pitt and earlier WVU). The AAC should produce as many NCAA teams as the BE going forward. The AAC will have a bona fide national title contender this year with Louisville and perhaps UConn on the women's basketball side. After 2014, expect UConn, Memphis, Cincy and/or Temple to be ranked, high profile teams. And of course after that, let's trust that expansion opens the door for UC and all these comparisons will be rendered pointless when they're in our rearview mirror.

(07-02-2013 09:43 AM)#41 Wrote:  

(07-02-2013 08:26 AM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  A whole lot of overrating is going on in with new Big East. They are going be a solid three to five bid league most years but you can say the same thing about the American, SEC, Big XII, PAC-12, and the Mountain West.

The difference lies at the bottom -- the Big East has an OK floor of programs, the American has Tulane (who would struggle to beat good high school squads most years), SMU and ECU.

The last time any of those schools made the tournament, Bill Clinton was President.

Don't sleep on SMU. Larry Brown has them headed in the right direction and he has a really good staff.

I would also hardly call DePaul and Providence and OK floor of programs.

Well, "The Big East" just took a hit two days after making the new teams official.

Brad Stevens to the Celtics.

Who cares? I don't think UC asked for one. The mayor attended and graduated from UC and XU.

(07-01-2013 05:36 PM)CincyBro Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 02:18 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  This is a great move for them. They jumped from essentially the 7th best conference to what I think will be the 3rd best conference (after the ACC and Big 10).

It's also a big jump in academic prestige. X was near the top of the A-10 academically, but they're near the bottom of the Big East. Associating yourself with better schools tends to raise your image, similar to how UC's image improved in 2005.

Personally, I'm happy for them. I don't think that it hurts UC in any way. There's no reason our great city can't have two top-tier basketball teams.

No way it's the 3rd best league. Big XII and AAC will be better, also might want to include PAC XII in there.

I'm not so sure the AAC will be better.....the Big East still looks pretty good to me and you have to think Xavier is only going to get better as they have a much better conference as a backdrop for their recruiting. I'm sure they will do what they have done in the past...they seem to rise to the occasion (just like UC does).

If not better, I'll guess the AAC will be every bit as good and earn more NCAA bids for the tourney this March. I don't pay much attention to X but it seems their fans aren't too happy with Mack for a variety of reasons.

Road games for X definitely get tougher and it will get ugly over in Norwood if their fans' unrealistic expectations aren't met. Georgetown and Marquette could dominate and by doing so, limit the number of tourney bids in year one.

IMO the two leagues should be just about even most years. They both have significant talent up top plus 2-3 programs that are typically in the Madness conversation more often than not, plus some absolutely laughable programs that probably shouldn't even field teams.

(07-01-2013 09:22 AM)mlb Wrote:  UC got 1 back in 2005 when they joined the Big East.

Yes, I thought so.

They had a pep rally on Fountain Square. I don't remember if we got a "UC Day" in the city but the city made a big deal about it...and from what I remember, a bigger deal was made of it by all, including the press, than XU's entry into the Big East.

To all of this I say congrats to XU. Good for them that they are in an improved conference. True, it's not the Big East of the last 20 years but it is much better than the A10...and XU deserves it because they have been a very good program. This will only UC's basketball rivalry with X and will probably make the game mean more.

I'm interested in which television network will televise these games - Fox1 or ESPN? Is it based on home team or is this game sold on it's own? Anybody know?

like UC...XU has come a long way. I remember when they were in that piss-ant conference...what was the name of it? Anybody? I'm talking Pete Gillen days here....their conference sucked ballz then. Now they are in with Gtown, Nova, and etc. They have done a nice job over the years moving up. Hats off....and when we beat them, it will be even sweeter.

(07-07-2013 08:20 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  like UC...XU has come a long way. I remember when they were in that piss-ant conference...what was the name of it? Anybody? I'm talking Pete Gillen days here....their conference sucked ballz then. Now they are in with Gtown, Nova, and etc. They have done a nice job over the years moving up. Hats off....and when we beat them, it will be even sweeter.

I agree with what you say, but it will still be interesting to see how they finish now that they have to play in conference, night in and night out, same feeling with Memphis.

(07-07-2013 08:20 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  like UC...XU has come a long way. I remember when they were in that piss-ant conference...what was the name of it? Anybody? I'm talking Pete Gillen days here....their conference sucked ballz then. Now they are in with Gtown, Nova, and etc. They have done a nice job over the years moving up. Hats off....and when we beat them, it will be even sweeter.

The MCC.

(07-07-2013 10:22 PM)back2vinyl Wrote:  

(07-07-2013 08:20 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  like UC...XU has come a long way. I remember when they were in that piss-ant conference...what was the name of it? Anybody? I'm talking Pete Gillen days here....their conference sucked ballz then. Now they are in with Gtown, Nova, and etc. They have done a nice job over the years moving up. Hats off....and when we beat them, it will be even sweeter.

The MCC.

That's right...thanks. I thought it started with an "M"....

(07-07-2013 08:43 PM)CincyBro Wrote:  

(07-07-2013 08:20 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  like UC...XU has come a long way. I remember when they were in that piss-ant conference...what was the name of it? Anybody? I'm talking Pete Gillen days here....their conference sucked ballz then. Now they are in with Gtown, Nova, and etc. They have done a nice job over the years moving up. Hats off....and when we beat them, it will be even sweeter.

I agree with what you say, but it will still be interesting to see how they finish now that they have to play in conference, night in and night out, same feeling with Memphis.

The new Big East isn't that good to be honest. I mean it's better than the A-10 but still pretty average nationally. The heavyweights have all left the conference. You have Marquette and Georgetown and that is about it.

There was a UC day when they joined the BE in 2005.