(07-02-2013 10:40 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(07-02-2013 10:38 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(07-02-2013 10:31 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  I am for moving it from Greensboro simply because of the unnatural home court advantage it gives the NC schools.

You do realize that's BS right? ACC tournament has been held outside of NC 11 times. Teams from NC still won 8 of them.

If it is a good enough excuse to move the baseball tournament from Greenville to Durham, then it should be a good enough excuse to move the hoops tournament.

Otherwise it was just another BS excuse that Tobacco Road used to line the pockets of the state of NC at the expense of the rest of the ACC.

Well the league headquarters is in NC. Half of the original schools were from NC. What else do you want? There aren't that many arenas in the South that make sense. We all know Clemson fans aren't showing up.

(07-02-2013 10:43 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(07-02-2013 10:40 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(07-02-2013 10:38 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(07-02-2013 10:31 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  I am for moving it from Greensboro simply because of the unnatural home court advantage it gives the NC schools.

You do realize that's BS right? ACC tournament has been held outside of NC 11 times. Teams from NC still won 8 of them.

If it is a good enough excuse to move the baseball tournament from Greenville to Durham, then it should be a good enough excuse to move the hoops tournament.

Otherwise it was just another BS excuse that Tobacco Road used to line the pockets of the state of NC at the expense of the rest of the ACC.

Well the league headquarters is in NC. Half of the original schools were from NC. What else do you want? There aren't that many arenas in the South that make sense. We all know Clemson fans aren't showing up.

Using that line of thinking why is the football championship in NC?

Again, I would like to know why it is certain locations, even if off-campus and not even in the same town, are considered unnatural home field/court advantages, but we can have them in locations similar (Greensboro/Atlanta/etc) or even in the same town and used as a defacto home field like Durham's baseball field and everything is fine.

There are only four fanbases out of 15 that would upset if the hoops tournament moves. The rest of us simply do not care because the tournament is going to be the same in every way.

We are sorta newbies about this, but for the new members, the ACC tourney is run differently than the big east tourney. There is simply no pubilc tickets offered. The arena is divided by the number of members of the conference plus 1 allotment for ACC HQ. For greensboro capacity 23000 so for before expansion each school got 1533 tickets. Each school offers these tourney books for purchase by qualified contributors. due to the high demand, an avg contributor ends up to be 5000 to 7000 per contributor - at duke and unc it may be up to 10000. So the schools use this as ways to increase contributions. All schools generally sell out their allotment. going to 15, means the allotment goes down to about 1000 per school.

(07-02-2013 10:43 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(07-02-2013 10:40 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(07-02-2013 10:38 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(07-02-2013 10:31 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  I am for moving it from Greensboro simply because of the unnatural home court advantage it gives the NC schools.

You do realize that's BS right? ACC tournament has been held outside of NC 11 times. Teams from NC still won 8 of them.

If it is a good enough excuse to move the baseball tournament from Greenville to Durham, then it should be a good enough excuse to move the hoops tournament.

Otherwise it was just another BS excuse that Tobacco Road used to line the pockets of the state of NC at the expense of the rest of the ACC.

Well the league headquarters is in NC. Half of the original schools were from NC. What else do you want? There aren't that many arenas in the South that make sense. We all know Clemson fans aren't showing up.

(07-02-2013 10:53 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(07-02-2013 10:43 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(07-02-2013 10:40 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(07-02-2013 10:38 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(07-02-2013 10:31 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  I am for moving it from Greensboro simply because of the unnatural home court advantage it gives the NC schools.

You do realize that's BS right? ACC tournament has been held outside of NC 11 times. Teams from NC still won 8 of them.

If it is a good enough excuse to move the baseball tournament from Greenville to Durham, then it should be a good enough excuse to move the hoops tournament.

Otherwise it was just another BS excuse that Tobacco Road used to line the pockets of the state of NC at the expense of the rest of the ACC.

Well the league headquarters is in NC. Half of the original schools were from NC. What else do you want? There aren't that many arenas in the South that make sense. We all know Clemson fans aren't showing up.

Using that line of thinking why is the football championship in NC?

Again, I would like to know why it is certain locations, even if off-campus and not even in the same town, are considered unnatural home field/court advantages, but we can have them in locations similar (Greensboro/Atlanta/etc) or even in the same town and used as a defacto home field like Durham's baseball field and everything is fine.

There are only four fanbases out of 15 that would upset if the hoops tournament moves. The rest of us simply do not care because the tournament is going to be the same in every way.

You can't compare basketball and football tournaments. ACC basketball has been dominated by 2 schools in the last 30 years...UNC and Duke and they are both in NC.

ACC football championship is in NC because it's done the best of the previous sites. They tried Jacksonville--failed. They tried Tampa--failed. Then they tried Charlotte--success. SEC already has Atlanta locked up. Where else would you put it?

Being successful isn't any reason to keep a post-season event somewhere. The ACC baseball tournament lost money everywhere it was played before it went to Greenville, and lost money everywhere it went after that until it went to Jacksonville ten years later.

(07-02-2013 11:12 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Being successful isn't any reason to keep a post-season event somewhere. The ACC baseball tournament lost money everywhere it was played before it went to Greenville, and lost money everywhere it went after that until it went to Jacksonville ten years later.

I'll ask again. Where else would you put it?

(07-02-2013 11:12 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Being successful isn't any reason to keep a post-season event somewhere. The ACC baseball tournament lost money everywhere it was played before it went to Greenville, and lost money everywhere it went after that until it went to Jacksonville ten years later.

Greenville was a great location for the ACC baseball tournament and it would still be in South Carolina if it weren't for action taken in Columbia.
The contract was already signed to have the baseball tournament moved to Myrtle Beach.

(07-03-2013 07:23 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(07-02-2013 11:12 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Being successful isn't any reason to keep a post-season event somewhere. The ACC baseball tournament lost money everywhere it was played before it went to Greenville, and lost money everywhere it went after that until it went to Jacksonville ten years later.

Greenville was a great location for the ACC baseball tournament and it would still be in South Carolina if it weren't for action taken in Columbia.
The contract was already signed to have the baseball tournament moved to Myrtle Beach.

The battle flag flew atop the State House dome every year the baseball tournament was played in Greenville.

(07-03-2013 06:02 PM)Buckminster Fuller Wrote:  

(07-03-2013 07:23 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(07-02-2013 11:12 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Being successful isn't any reason to keep a post-season event somewhere. The ACC baseball tournament lost money everywhere it was played before it went to Greenville, and lost money everywhere it went after that until it went to Jacksonville ten years later.

Greenville was a great location for the ACC baseball tournament and it would still be in South Carolina if it weren't for action taken in Columbia.
The contract was already signed to have the baseball tournament moved to Myrtle Beach.

The battle flag flew atop the State House dome every year the baseball tournament was played in Greenville.

Yep.

It was moved because it was successful and the money wasn't going to someone in NC's pocket.

(06-30-2013 12:43 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  Bunch of nonsense. Nobody thinks the ACCT is all that special anymore except UNC fans.

The conference would get a lot more "hype", exposure and possibly more revenue if it were held in NYC.

The ACCT hasn't been that special as long as I've been watching it (2004) and it's because most of the games are played in a half empty arena with no excitement. It's not that those seats aren't sold, it's that many of the high dollar donors who get those tickets only watch their team. If moving to NYC would get butts in the seats for all games with the excitement that the BET had, then I'm all for it. I like full stadiums and screaming fans.

Would we get that if we moved to NYC? Well, we certainly aren't getting it in Greensboro. Would moving to a farther away location encourage those donors to sit through every game and cheer even though it may not the their team's game? Maybe but I don't see a way to salvage an exciting environment in Greensboro. One problem with NYC is that the NYC fans won't be a factor because there won't be any tickets available to the public.

The tales of getting seats cheap after someone else's team busts out are hollow too. Maybe fans got tired of waiting or aren't making the trip any more or whatever the case maybe, they are not filling the seats now and haven't for a decade. Maybe in the 80's and 90's the ACCT was a thrilling event but for the last decade the ACCT has been boring.

(06-30-2013 10:38 AM)UofLgrad07 Wrote:  

(06-30-2013 09:43 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  I don't object to the tourney in NYC. [b]If we want butts in the seats[/b] we are going to have to address the travel issue. I think the size of the conference screams for regional locations for the 1st and second rounds.

Honestly I don't think that would be much of an issue. Given how many top notch basketball programs are in the conference, I think the ACC has enough branding and quality to draw in a lot of casual hoops fans in NYC. The old Big East didn't seem to have much of a problem with attendance (at least not one that I'm aware of).

Keep in mind with 15 teams you are only talking about 1500 fans per team, not including locals. Filling the arena would generally not be a problem.

How do you guys think it would effect attendance for the non-northeastern teams in New York vs. North Carolina? Which schools would send more and which less?

I've tried picturing the Big Ten doing something like this and can't because I think attendance would be a lot less in New York as its further from most the major basketball programs (who are otherwise within driving distance of Indianapolis/Chicago).

(07-04-2013 03:51 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(06-30-2013 12:43 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  Bunch of nonsense. Nobody thinks the ACCT is all that special anymore except UNC fans.

The conference would get a lot more "hype", exposure and possibly more revenue if it were held in NYC.

The ACCT hasn't been that special as long as I've been watching it (2004) and it's because most of the games are played in a half empty arena with no excitement. It's not that those seats aren't sold, it's that many of the high dollar donors who get those tickets only watch their team. If moving to NYC would get butts in the seats for all games with the excitement that the BET had, then I'm all for it. I like full stadiums and screaming fans.

Would we get that if we moved to NYC? Well, we certainly aren't getting it in Greensboro. Would moving to a farther away location encourage those donors to sit through every game and cheer even though it may not the their team's game? Maybe but I don't see a way to salvage an exciting environment in Greensboro. One problem with NYC is that the NYC fans won't be a factor because there won't be any tickets available to the public.

The tales of getting seats cheap after someone else's team busts out are hollow too. Maybe fans got tired of waiting or aren't making the trip any more or whatever the case maybe, they are not filling the seats now and haven't for a decade. Maybe in the 80's and 90's the ACCT was a thrilling event but for the last decade the ACCT has been boring.

One solution is to sell session tickets for the early rounds. Essentially allows double the fans per school in the first couple of rounds of games. Helps to eliminate the issue of early round tickets going unused since they will be made available to teams playing then.

(07-07-2013 10:39 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  How do you guys think it would effect attendance for the non-northeastern teams in New York vs. North Carolina? Which schools would send more and which less?

I've tried picturing the Big Ten doing something like this and can't because I think attendance would be a lot less in New York as its further from most the major basketball programs (who are otherwise within driving distance of Indianapolis/Chicago).

Duke, UNC, FSU, NCSt, UVA all should do well fan wise as they all have a nice contingent of alumni. Duke has the subway fans in hoops much like ND does in FB. Cuse, Pitt, ND and Ville should do well. Not sure about BC, VT, CU,WF and GTech. Duke and Cuse will be the biggest fanbases...UNC close behind.

(07-07-2013 11:37 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(07-07-2013 10:39 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  How do you guys think it would effect attendance for the non-northeastern teams in New York vs. North Carolina? Which schools would send more and which less?

I've tried picturing the Big Ten doing something like this and can't because I think attendance would be a lot less in New York as its further from most the major basketball programs (who are otherwise within driving distance of Indianapolis/Chicago).

Duke, UNC, FSU, NCSt, UVA all should do well fan wise as they all have a nice contingent of alumni. Duke has the subway fans in hoops much like ND does in FB. Cuse, Pitt, ND and Ville should do well. Not sure about BC, VT, CU,WF and GTech. Duke and Cuse will be the biggest fanbases...UNC close behind.

Isn't the Chinatown bus from Boston to NYC something crazy cheap like $5? (or was it $15?) Either way, (brave) BC fans really don't have an excuse to not go if it's in NYC.

SIDE NOTE: I'm not sure if the Chinatown busses are still running, and based on what I've heard about them, I cannot emphasize the word "brave" enough.

If you are an avg joe and expect to get acc tickets you are mistaken . Acc distributes tickets exclusively to the teams which ends up to about 1100 per school. The schools just don't offer them but gives rights to ourchase tickets based on annual contributions . This ends up giving about a 4 to 10 k to the school before u get the right to purchase a set of two ticket books. It is a huge money generator lee school . Unless thru stub hub or from an alumni member will an avg fan gets access to a ticket. Therefore Any new fan interested in attending a game in ny will find it hard to get in. Also the schools will not reduce their allocation. - it will be reduced anyway due to expansion and msg being smeller than Greensboro . For our new members its a diffiferent atmosphere than big east . More exclusive than other sporting events

(07-08-2013 03:54 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(07-07-2013 11:37 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(07-07-2013 10:39 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  How do you guys think it would effect attendance for the non-northeastern teams in New York vs. North Carolina? Which schools would send more and which less?
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I've tried picturing the Big Ten doing something like this and can't because I think attendance would be a lot less in New York as its further from most the major basketball programs (who are otherwise within driving distance of Indianapolis/Chicago).

Duke, UNC, FSU, NCSt, UVA all should do well fan wise as they all have a nice contingent of alumni. Duke has the subway fans in hoops much like ND does in FB. Cuse, Pitt, ND and Ville should do well. Not sure about BC, VT, CU,WF and GTech. Duke and Cuse will be the biggest fanbases...UNC close behind.

Isn't the Chinatown bus from Boston to NYC something crazy cheap like $5? (or was it $15?) Either way, (brave) BC fans really don't have an excuse to not go if it's in NYC.

SIDE NOTE: I'm not sure if the Chinatown busses are still running, and based on what I've heard about them, I cannot emphasize the word "brave" enough. "lmfao:

What made the BE tourney special is all the alumni that work in MidTown and Wall Street...plus the ability for fans to get tix on the street. I'm sure you'll see tickets on the street before/during each round.

(07-07-2013 10:39 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  How do you guys think it would effect attendance for the non-northeastern teams in New York vs. North Carolina? Which schools would send more and which less?

While several Big East teams were near New York, most were a considerable distance away, and it did not effect anything. You actually tend to get higher attendance, as in butts in the seats, because with fewer people able to drive, they are "all-in" so to speak while they are there, as opposed to those who drive in, watch their game, then drive home. Consider that NY is much further from Louisville than North Carolina is and is more expensive to get to, and you have people like myself who are from Louisville advocating this for good reason. In NYC it is a bowl like setting for college basketball, and it is awesome.

(07-08-2013 05:17 AM)Fburghokie Wrote:  If you are an avg joe and expect to get acc tickets you are mistaken . Acc distributes tickets exclusively to the teams which ends up to about 1100 per school. The schools just don't offer them but gives rights to ourchase tickets based on annual contributions . This ends up giving about a 4 to 10 k to the school before u get the right to purchase a set of two ticket books. It is a huge money generator lee school . Unless thru stub hub or from an alumni member will an avg fan gets access to a ticket. Therefore Any new fan interested in attending a game in ny will find it hard to get in. Also the schools will not reduce their allocation. - it will be reduced anyway due to expansion and msg being smeller than Greensboro . For our new members its a diffiferent atmosphere than big east . More exclusive than other sporting events

You describe much the same process the Big East employed. Not sure why it would not work if the ACC tourney is at MSG since it already has worked for the Big East and since the ACC already employs the same method. It has been an exclusive event in the past. And as TM pointed out, nearly every ACC school has a ready built fan base in NYC because of alumni working in and around NYC. These alumni will buy unused tickets, too, at least that's what happened in the Big East.

A big difference is that in NYC there are fans who will buy the unused tickets for the crappy games that the big donors choose not to attend. The place stays packed, the feeling is electric. Another big difference is that NYC is a bit more exciting than Greensboro.

(07-08-2013 05:17 AM)Fburghokie Wrote:  If you are an avg joe and expect to get acc tickets you are mistaken . Acc distributes tickets exclusively to the teams which ends up to about 1100 per school. The schools just don't offer them but gives rights to ourchase tickets based on annual contributions . This ends up giving about a 4 to 10 k to the school before u get the right to purchase a set of two ticket books. It is a huge money generator lee school . Unless thru stub hub or from an alumni member will an avg fan gets access to a ticket. Therefore Any new fan interested in attending a game in ny will find it hard to get in. Also the schools will not reduce their allocation. - it will be reduced anyway due to expansion and msg being smeller than Greensboro . For our new members its a diffiferent atmosphere than big east . More exclusive than other sporting events

THIS is going to turn into a HUGE problem, if it isn't already. I don't see many good options. I think the ACC will be forced to go to session tickets at the very least and possibly a dual-site, 2 round system (e.g. 1st round in Greensboro, 2nd round in NYC one year; swap cities the next year; keep both sites in use all the time)