Guys, manslaughter is an included charge in 2nd degree murder in Florida. The jury instruction will permit them to find manslaughter if they don't find murder 2.

Just for your knowledge, here's the Florida statutes on the question:

Quote:The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree...

The jury instruction for murder 2 reads:

Quote:... An act is “imminently dangerous to another and demonstrating a depraved mind” if it is an act or series of acts that:

1. a person of ordinary judgment would know is reasonably certain to kill or do serious bodily injury to another, and

2. is done from ill will, hatred, spite, or an evil intent, and

3. is of such a nature that the act itself indicates an indifference to human life.
...

Now there's caselaw that helps fill in some of those blanks, but ultimately it's a fact determination by the jury.

Compare this to manslaughter:

Quote:The killing of a human being by the act, procurement, or culpable negligence of another, without lawful justification according to the provisions of chapter 776 and in cases in which such killing shall not be excusable homicide or murder, according to the provisions of this chapter, is manslaughter, a felony of the second degree...

The jury instructions for manslaughter are complicated and fact specific, but the jury will most likely get this one:

Quote:In order to convict of manslaughter by act, it is not necessary for the State to prove that the defendant had an intent to cause death, only an intent to commit an act that was not merely negligent, justified, or excusable and which caused death.

So that is where the stand your ground defense comes in as well. If stand your ground doesn't apply, then it's next to impossible, in my opinion, to not convict of manslaughter.

Interesting, thanks for the info

(07-01-2013 07:59 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  Guys, manslaughter is an included charge in 2nd degree murder in Florida. The jury instruction will permit them to find manslaughter if they don't find murder 2.

Just for your knowledge, here's the Florida statutes on the question:

Quote:The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree...

The jury instruction for murder 2 reads:

Quote:... An act is “imminently dangerous to another and demonstrating a depraved mind” if it is an act or series of acts that:

1. a person of ordinary judgment would know is reasonably certain to kill or do serious bodily injury to another, and

2. is done from ill will, hatred, spite, or an evil intent, and

3. is of such a nature that the act itself indicates an indifference to human life.
...

Now there's caselaw that helps fill in some of those blanks, but ultimately it's a fact determination by the jury.

Compare this to manslaughter:

Quote:The killing of a human being by the act, procurement, or culpable negligence of another, without lawful justification according to the provisions of chapter 776 and in cases in which such killing shall not be excusable homicide or murder, according to the provisions of this chapter, is manslaughter, a felony of the second degree...

The jury instructions for manslaughter are complicated and fact specific, but the jury will most likely get this one:

Quote:In order to convict of manslaughter by act, it is not necessary for the State to prove that the defendant had an intent to cause death, only an intent to commit an act that was not merely negligent, justified, or excusable and which caused death.

So that is where the stand your ground defense comes in as well. If stand your ground doesn't apply, then it's next to impossible, in my opinion, to not convict of manslaughter.

What part of Zman's actions were specifically negligent, or not otherwise justified or excusable to the point of finding him guilty? It is not negligent to be a community watchdog, follow someone on the property where you live, or otherwise be curious of the actions of a stranger in your neighborhood where crime is problem.

If Zman had been a cop at the time this happened he would have been cleared a long time ago.

(07-01-2013 04:14 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 07:59 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  Guys, manslaughter is an included charge in 2nd degree murder in Florida. The jury instruction will permit them to find manslaughter if they don't find murder 2.

Just for your knowledge, here's the Florida statutes on the question:

Quote:The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree...

The jury instruction for murder 2 reads:

Quote:... An act is “imminently dangerous to another and demonstrating a depraved mind” if it is an act or series of acts that:

1. a person of ordinary judgment would know is reasonably certain to kill or do serious bodily injury to another, and

2. is done from ill will, hatred, spite, or an evil intent, and

3. is of such a nature that the act itself indicates an indifference to human life.
...

Now there's caselaw that helps fill in some of those blanks, but ultimately it's a fact determination by the jury.

Compare this to manslaughter:

Quote:The killing of a human being by the act, procurement, or culpable negligence of another, without lawful justification according to the provisions of chapter 776 and in cases in which such killing shall not be excusable homicide or murder, according to the provisions of this chapter, is manslaughter, a felony of the second degree...

The jury instructions for manslaughter are complicated and fact specific, but the jury will most likely get this one:

Quote:In order to convict of manslaughter by act, it is not necessary for the State to prove that the defendant had an intent to cause death, only an intent to commit an act that was not merely negligent, justified, or excusable and which caused death.

So that is where the stand your ground defense comes in as well. If stand your ground doesn't apply, then it's next to impossible, in my opinion, to not convict of manslaughter.

What part of Zman's actions were specifically negligent, or not otherwise justified or excusable to the point of finding him guilty? It is not negligent to be a community watchdog, follow someone on the property where you live, or otherwise be curious of the actions of a stranger in your neighborhood where crime is problem.

If Zman had been a cop at the time this happened he would have been cleared a long time ago.

It is easy to mon. morning quarterback this. Different story if you are getting your face smashed in.

In the Joe Horn shooting the TX Grand Jury no billed the case. In Texas there are laws allowing the use of deadly force to prevent or stop property crimes.

(07-01-2013 04:30 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 04:14 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 07:59 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  Guys, manslaughter is an included charge in 2nd degree murder in Florida. The jury instruction will permit them to find manslaughter if they don't find murder 2.

Just for your knowledge, here's the Florida statutes on the question:

Quote:The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree...

The jury instruction for murder 2 reads:

Quote:... An act is “imminently dangerous to another and demonstrating a depraved mind” if it is an act or series of acts that:

1. a person of ordinary judgment would know is reasonably certain to kill or do serious bodily injury to another, and

2. is done from ill will, hatred, spite, or an evil intent, and

3. is of such a nature that the act itself indicates an indifference to human life.
...

Now there's caselaw that helps fill in some of those blanks, but ultimately it's a fact determination by the jury.

Compare this to manslaughter:

Quote:The killing of a human being by the act, procurement, or culpable negligence of another, without lawful justification according to the provisions of chapter 776 and in cases in which such killing shall not be excusable homicide or murder, according to the provisions of this chapter, is manslaughter, a felony of the second degree...

The jury instructions for manslaughter are complicated and fact specific, but the jury will most likely get this one:

Quote:In order to convict of manslaughter by act, it is not necessary for the State to prove that the defendant had an intent to cause death, only an intent to commit an act that was not merely negligent, justified, or excusable and which caused death.

So that is where the stand your ground defense comes in as well. If stand your ground doesn't apply, then it's next to impossible, in my opinion, to not convict of manslaughter.

What part of Zman's actions were specifically negligent, or not otherwise justified or excusable to the point of finding him guilty? It is not negligent to be a community watchdog, follow someone on the property where you live, or otherwise be curious of the actions of a stranger in your neighborhood where crime is problem.

If Zman had been a cop at the time this happened he would have been cleared a long time ago.

It is easy to mon. morning quarterback this. Different story if you are getting your face smashed in.

In the Joe Horn shooting the TX Grand Jury no billed the case. In Texas there are laws allowing the use of deadly force to prevent or stop property crimes.

You've Monday morning quarterbacked this issue as well.

I can see the possibility of a manslaughter conviction if some of the jurors think it is 2nd degree murder, some want manslaughter and some want not guilty. It wouldn't be the first time that a jury took the middle ground.

If manslaughter is on the table, I believe they'll find him culpable

What will happen if Zimmerman is found not guilty?
Sounds like justice will have prevailed.