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Maryland case against ACC stayed pending ACC lawsuit in North Carolina
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Shannon Panther Offline
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Post: #21
Re: Maryland case against ACC stayed pending ACC lawsuit in North Carolina
I am not a lawyer, but it seems to me that the ACC can reasonably sweep aside the argument that Maryland hasn't formally resigned by arguing that the announcement that they are joining the B1G in 2014 was notice. The fact they didn't sit down and write a formal letter isn't really material here. It comes down to the argument over what "formal notice" is.

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06-29-2013 11:49 AM
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Dasville Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Maryland case against ACC stayed pending ACC lawsuit in North Carolina
Well, MD did finally give their version of an "official" notice this past week. Anybody know what was done on their part and whom they informed and how they informed those parties? Seems I read somewhere that they had to inform each ACC member?
06-29-2013 03:42 PM
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Post: #23
RE: Maryland case against ACC stayed pending ACC lawsuit in North Carolina
The settlement of this will determine a lot of possible expansion scenarios over the next few years.
06-29-2013 05:02 PM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Maryland case against ACC stayed pending ACC lawsuit in North Carolina
(06-29-2013 09:32 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  This isn't going to cost Maryland as much as ACC folks here want to believe. First off, the State of Maryland is involved on their side to a degree.

70 cents on the dollar instead of 50? You are just randomly throwing **** against the wall and hoping it sticks Wilkie. Not starting anything with that comment but you know it's true.

Terry is pretty much right in my opinion. A lot of sabre rattling and that is to be expected. As far as which end of the spectrum that TerryD drew out for payment, that will likely depend upon who blinks first. If it is the ACC that blinks first then it will be down near 20 mil maybe. If Maryland AND the Big Ten blink first then probably up in the 27 to maybe even 30 million range.

Bear in mind, the Big Ten Conference likely promised it's help to Maryland in this. This isn't Maryland vs the ACC. It is Maryland/Big Ten vs The ACC.

Now we wait to see if the North Carolina Courts are going to play this one politically or if they are going to play it down the line. Just because it's in North Carolina doesn't mean the ACC will get everything it wants but that is certainly possible.

No watch what jas been paid by other schools. If you do not agree, I do not care. 07-coffee3
06-29-2013 05:18 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Maryland case against ACC stayed pending ACC lawsuit in North Carolina
(06-29-2013 05:18 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  
(06-29-2013 09:32 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  This isn't going to cost Maryland as much as ACC folks here want to believe. First off, the State of Maryland is involved on their side to a degree.

70 cents on the dollar instead of 50? You are just randomly throwing **** against the wall and hoping it sticks Wilkie. Not starting anything with that comment but you know it's true.

Terry is pretty much right in my opinion. A lot of sabre rattling and that is to be expected. As far as which end of the spectrum that TerryD drew out for payment, that will likely depend upon who blinks first. If it is the ACC that blinks first then it will be down near 20 mil maybe. If Maryland AND the Big Ten blink first then probably up in the 27 to maybe even 30 million range.

Bear in mind, the Big Ten Conference likely promised it's help to Maryland in this. This isn't Maryland vs the ACC. It is Maryland/Big Ten vs The ACC.

Now we wait to see if the North Carolina Courts are going to play this one politically or if they are going to play it down the line. Just because it's in North Carolina doesn't mean the ACC will get everything it wants but that is certainly possible.

No watch what jas been paid by other schools. If you do not agree, I do not care. 07-coffee3

I'm crushed that you do not care, really. My entire day depended upon you seeing things my way...really, I mean it, that is absolutely why I posted what I posted.

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06-29-2013 05:34 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Maryland case against ACC stayed pending ACC lawsuit in North Carolina
(06-29-2013 09:32 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  This isn't going to cost Maryland as much as ACC folks here want to believe. First off, the State of Maryland is involved on their side to a degree.

70 cents on the dollar instead of 50? You are just randomly throwing **** against the wall and hoping it sticks Wilkie. Not starting anything with that comment but you know it's true.

Terry is pretty much right in my opinion. A lot of sabre rattling and that is to be expected. As far as which end of the spectrum that TerryD drew out for payment, that will likely depend upon who blinks first. If it is the ACC that blinks first then it will be down near 20 mil maybe. If Maryland AND the Big Ten blink first then probably up in the 27 to maybe even 30 million range.

Bear in mind, the Big Ten Conference likely promised it's help to Maryland in this. This isn't Maryland vs the ACC. It is Maryland/Big Ten vs The ACC.

Now we wait to see if the North Carolina Courts are going to play this one politically or if they are going to play it down the line. Just because it's in North Carolina doesn't mean the ACC will get everything it wants but that is certainly possible.

TerryD may practice law in Louisiana, but in North Carolina things may go a little differently.
The ACC's lawyer is excellent, the client is driven and the courts are friendly.....i.e. Maryland is toast. Look for Maryland to have to fork over the full amount if not more.
06-29-2013 05:41 PM
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Dasville Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Maryland case against ACC stayed pending ACC lawsuit in North Carolina
I have read that if the ACC withholds all distributions until July 2014, the amount would be close to $28 million. Without conference money, how does MD pay the athletic bills?

I know their entrance $ to join the CIC will be covered by other University funds and the B1G has fronted them some $ against future BTN earnings and the B1G has agreed to provide them with some travel $ ($20-$30 million) that I guess could be used as Maryland sees fit?

My question is, when does MD start getting $ from the B1G? Have they already gotten some in some way or another?

As of July 1, 2013, can Maryland begin receiving money from the B1G with no effect on their ACC obligations?
(This post was last modified: 06-29-2013 05:51 PM by Dasville.)
06-29-2013 05:43 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Maryland case against ACC stayed pending ACC lawsuit in North Carolina
(06-29-2013 05:41 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(06-29-2013 09:32 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  This isn't going to cost Maryland as much as ACC folks here want to believe. First off, the State of Maryland is involved on their side to a degree.

70 cents on the dollar instead of 50? You are just randomly throwing **** against the wall and hoping it sticks Wilkie. Not starting anything with that comment but you know it's true.

Terry is pretty much right in my opinion. A lot of sabre rattling and that is to be expected. As far as which end of the spectrum that TerryD drew out for payment, that will likely depend upon who blinks first. If it is the ACC that blinks first then it will be down near 20 mil maybe. If Maryland AND the Big Ten blink first then probably up in the 27 to maybe even 30 million range.

Bear in mind, the Big Ten Conference likely promised it's help to Maryland in this. This isn't Maryland vs the ACC. It is Maryland/Big Ten vs The ACC.

Now we wait to see if the North Carolina Courts are going to play this one politically or if they are going to play it down the line. Just because it's in North Carolina doesn't mean the ACC will get everything it wants but that is certainly possible.

TerryD may practice law in Louisiana, but in North Carolina things may go a little differently.
The ACC's lawyer is excellent, the client is driven and the courts are friendly.....i.e. Maryland is toast. Look for Maryland to have to fork over the full amount if not more.

Do you realize just how F'd up what you just posted is?

The courts are friendly? Way to be proud of that blatant corruption then. If the North Carolina Courts prove to be so "friendly" then it is called an appeals process and there is no judge alive that is going to allow himself to be made a fool of by a higher court by giving an obviously biased decision to the ACC. I am not saying a decision in the favor of the ACC is overwhelmingly biased, you are with your "friendly court" comment.

Maryland isn't toast, they wont pay more than the full amount. You really are just being a silly little ACC cheerleader. Go sit back down while the rest of the adults have their conversation.
06-29-2013 05:59 PM
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jaminandjachin Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Maryland case against ACC stayed pending ACC lawsuit in North Carolina
The more I think about this, the more I believe the ACC will withhold more than 30 mil by next July from Maryland. Consider this:

2011-2012 year, Maryland received 16 million from the ACC. The ACC began withholding distributions from Maryland in Dec 2012 which is when they pay out the Dec TV distribution. The vast majority of the conference payouts are after Dec meaning the ACC may already withheld 14-15 million from Maryland for the 2012-2013 year, and that's if Maryland was scheduled to be paid 16 million. You have to assume they were going to get a little more than that just on TV increases alone. Now if the ACC withholds 2013-2014 distributions, that could potentially be another 17-19 million because this year the new contract kicks in with ND, Syracuse, Pitt. So I can easily see the ACC withholding over 30 mil from Maryland once July 2014 hits.
06-29-2013 07:53 PM
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omniorange Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Maryland case against ACC stayed pending ACC lawsuit in North Carolina
(06-29-2013 05:59 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(06-29-2013 05:41 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(06-29-2013 09:32 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  This isn't going to cost Maryland as much as ACC folks here want to believe. First off, the State of Maryland is involved on their side to a degree.

70 cents on the dollar instead of 50? You are just randomly throwing **** against the wall and hoping it sticks Wilkie. Not starting anything with that comment but you know it's true.

Terry is pretty much right in my opinion. A lot of sabre rattling and that is to be expected. As far as which end of the spectrum that TerryD drew out for payment, that will likely depend upon who blinks first. If it is the ACC that blinks first then it will be down near 20 mil maybe. If Maryland AND the Big Ten blink first then probably up in the 27 to maybe even 30 million range.

Bear in mind, the Big Ten Conference likely promised it's help to Maryland in this. This isn't Maryland vs the ACC. It is Maryland/Big Ten vs The ACC.

Now we wait to see if the North Carolina Courts are going to play this one politically or if they are going to play it down the line. Just because it's in North Carolina doesn't mean the ACC will get everything it wants but that is certainly possible.

TerryD may practice law in Louisiana, but in North Carolina things may go a little differently.
The ACC's lawyer is excellent, the client is driven and the courts are friendly.....i.e. Maryland is toast. Look for Maryland to have to fork over the full amount if not more.

Do you realize just how F'd up what you just posted is?

The courts are friendly? Way to be proud of that blatant corruption then. If the North Carolina Courts prove to be so "friendly" then it is called an appeals process and there is no judge alive that is going to allow himself to be made a fool of by a higher court by giving an obviously biased decision to the ACC. I am not saying a decision in the favor of the ACC is overwhelmingly biased, you are with your "friendly court" comment.

Maryland isn't toast, they wont pay more than the full amount. You really are just being a silly little ACC cheerleader. Go sit back down while the rest of the adults have their conversation.

Well, if they do indeed have to pay the full amount (and I'm not convinced they will have to), then when it's all said and done and you add in the lawyers' fees they have paid out "even more".

I suspect this may have been XLance's point.

Cheers,
Neil
06-29-2013 07:57 PM
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orangefan Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Maryland case against ACC stayed pending ACC lawsuit in North Carolina
(06-29-2013 05:59 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(06-29-2013 05:41 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(06-29-2013 09:32 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  This isn't going to cost Maryland as much as ACC folks here want to believe. First off, the State of Maryland is involved on their side to a degree.

70 cents on the dollar instead of 50? You are just randomly throwing **** against the wall and hoping it sticks Wilkie. Not starting anything with that comment but you know it's true.

Terry is pretty much right in my opinion. A lot of sabre rattling and that is to be expected. As far as which end of the spectrum that TerryD drew out for payment, that will likely depend upon who blinks first. If it is the ACC that blinks first then it will be down near 20 mil maybe. If Maryland AND the Big Ten blink first then probably up in the 27 to maybe even 30 million range.

Bear in mind, the Big Ten Conference likely promised it's help to Maryland in this. This isn't Maryland vs the ACC. It is Maryland/Big Ten vs The ACC.

Now we wait to see if the North Carolina Courts are going to play this one politically or if they are going to play it down the line. Just because it's in North Carolina doesn't mean the ACC will get everything it wants but that is certainly possible.

TerryD may practice law in Louisiana, but in North Carolina things may go a little differently.
The ACC's lawyer is excellent, the client is driven and the courts are friendly.....i.e. Maryland is toast. Look for Maryland to have to fork over the full amount if not more.

Do you realize just how F'd up what you just posted is?

The courts are friendly? Way to be proud of that blatant corruption then. If the North Carolina Courts prove to be so "friendly" then it is called an appeals process and there is no judge alive that is going to allow himself to be made a fool of by a higher court by giving an obviously biased decision to the ACC. I am not saying a decision in the favor of the ACC is overwhelmingly biased, you are with your "friendly court" comment.

Maryland isn't toast, they wont pay more than the full amount. You really are just being a silly little ACC cheerleader. Go sit back down while the rest of the adults have their conversation.

There is at least some truth the idea of "home court" advantage. Why did the ACC rush to file in NC? Why did UMD even bother to initiate a competing suit in MD? In the Big East/WVU suit, why did WVU and the Big East file competing suits in WV and RI respectively? They all expected at least some advantage by being in the venue of their choice.
06-30-2013 07:33 AM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Maryland case against ACC stayed pending ACC lawsuit in North Carolina
Fair and blind American Justice System. 07-coffee3
06-30-2013 10:44 AM
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RMSko Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Maryland case against ACC stayed pending ACC lawsuit in North Carolina
Until the ACC agreed to a GOR, I thought this had virtually no chance of settling. However, with the GOR in place, the stakes are not nearly as high for the ACC and they can settle at a much lower number and not worry about it creating a precedent.
06-30-2013 10:52 AM
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indiana_dude Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Maryland case against ACC stayed pending ACC lawsuit in North Carolina
Does anyone see the precedent here that the Prince George's county judge has set by dismissing the one portion of the lawsuit? He has actually helped Maryland's case in North Carolina because the ACC also publicly stated that the conference had gained by adding Louisville in place of Maryland. They quickly added Louisville and plugged them into Maryland's schedule spot in everything except lacrosse.
(This post was last modified: 06-30-2013 11:07 AM by indiana_dude.)
06-30-2013 11:03 AM
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indiana_dude Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Maryland case against ACC stayed pending ACC lawsuit in North Carolina
I think that the North Carolina judge would at least look back to that and encourage the parties to negotiate a fee for exiting. Otherwise he would be off base to not hold the ACC to the same standard.
06-30-2013 11:42 AM
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jaminandjachin Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Maryland case against ACC stayed pending ACC lawsuit in North Carolina
(06-30-2013 11:03 AM)indiana_dude Wrote:  Does anyone see the precedent here that the Prince George's county judge has set by dismissing the one portion of the lawsuit? He has actually helped Maryland's case in North Carolina because the ACC also publicly stated that the conference had gained by adding Louisville in place of Maryland. They quickly added Louisville and plugged them into Maryland's schedule spot in everything except lacrosse.

Not quite the same. The B1G and Maryland touted the financial gains with the new relationship. The ACC didn't say Louisville was a financial gain, rather a competitive gain. Losing the Baltimore/DC market is still a big deal and was the main reason for the B1G inviting Maryland in the first place.
06-30-2013 12:05 PM
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Shannon Panther Offline
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Post: #37
Re: RE: Maryland case against ACC stayed pending ACC lawsuit in North Carolina
(06-30-2013 12:05 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  
(06-30-2013 11:03 AM)indiana_dude Wrote:  Does anyone see the precedent here that the Prince George's county judge has set by dismissing the one portion of the lawsuit? He has actually helped Maryland's case in North Carolina because the ACC also publicly stated that the conference had gained by adding Louisville in place of Maryland. They quickly added Louisville and plugged them into Maryland's schedule spot in everything except lacrosse.

Not quite the same. The B1G and Maryland touted the financial gains with the new relationship. The ACC didn't say Louisville was a financial gain, rather a competitive gain. Losing the Baltimore/DC market is still a big deal and was the main reason for the B1G inviting Maryland in the first place.

Again, I am not a lawyer. But one of the first things I would ask for in discovery is the B1G's estimate of what the addition of Maryland is worth to them. Let Maryland argue that there has not been financial harm to the ACC, then the ACC counters with but according to the B1G's own estimate, you are worth $XX in additional revenue. That is not an argument I would like to make.

The ACC filed in NC because it was incorporated under NC law. There may be a home filed advantage or not. Since they were incorporated under NC law, it makes sense to have a NC court adjudicate the case. The Big East filed in RI for the same reason. It was WV and MD who were trying to leverage a home field advantage by filing locally.

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07-01-2013 07:44 AM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Maryland case against ACC stayed pending ACC lawsuit in North Carolina
Every lawyer I know has been a victim or beneficiary of "home cooking" by a judge and/or jury many times during their careers.

The degree of home cooking and whether an appellate court will remedy that home cooking (for judicial abuse of discretion and decisions "outside the box") or not (and to what degree) is unknown and uncertain.

Judge's decisions on what evidence and testimony is allowed or excluded, on objections sustained or denied, on jury instructions, etc...are given a fair amount of leeway by appellate courts and shape the nature of a jury trial in many instances.

This case, I would think, will be ultimately decided by a jury of North Carolina citizens. Their decision will have to be reviewed for abuse of discretion the same as the judge's decisions on things listed in the above paragraph.

Appellate courts do not retry the case. They cannot consider evidence or issues not submitted or raised at the trial court level. In almost every instance, they cannot substitute their opinions for that of the judge or jury.

They can only review the case for legal error or abuse of discretion by the lower court.

"Forum shopping" is an old tradition in the legal system. Many times there is a "race to the courthouse" and motions to change venue or attempts to remove cases to Federal court (within thirty days of service of process on a defendant) to gain an advantage and to mitigate that concern, respectively.

What overall affect this will have on the ACC/Maryland case remains to be seen.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2013 09:31 AM by TerryD.)
07-01-2013 09:19 AM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Maryland case against ACC stayed pending ACC lawsuit in North Carolina
Great post and good insight on the legal system, Terry. 04-cheers
07-01-2013 10:34 AM
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Post: #40
RE: Maryland case against ACC stayed pending ACC lawsuit in North Carolina
You can't compare the loss of Maryland with the addition of Louisville.

Even the characterization as a replacement is made under the umbrella notion that the ACC was going to stay at 15 schools. The ACC can easily claim their plan was to use Louisville as a possible 16th instead of a 15th school.

Also the loss of MD to the Big 10 specifically allows the B10 to enter the MD market and removes the ACC's exclusive market footprint in DC, Baltimore, Delaware and the rest of MD. Exclusivity has a value.
07-01-2013 02:24 PM
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