(06-21-2013 10:58 AM)Potomac Wrote:  I have no idea if the rumored rejected student had a competitive high school course load or not. I only heard the rumor of a 3.9 GPA student getting a rejection letter and I'm sitting here thinking, how are my kids going to get in one day?

I would have to assume that the person is talking about a weighted GPA. Depending on the school system, a weighted GPA of 3.9 might not put you in the top 1/3 of your class. I would have a hard time believing that the typical student with an unweighted GPA of 3.9 would not get into JMU, even without a challenging course schedule.

The weighted GPAs that the school systems use are meaningless to JMU. JMU knows how each school system (in Virginia, anyway) weighs their GPAs and they also know each school system's grading scale (A=90-100 vs. A=93-100, etc.). JMU looks at the raw high school transcript and uses their own method of ranking applicants.

In my opinion, JMU puts greater weight on the unweighted GPA than any other single factor in making admissions decisions - by far. Yes, they want you to take a challenging schedule (all schools say that), but you had better make sure you don't make Cs in a bunch of those AP classes.

For example, I think a student is better off making a B in a regular class than they are making a C in an AP class, even though most school systems weigh them exactly the same for GPA purposes. JMU hates Cs. Take all the AP classes your heart desires - if you're sure you won't make a C. If you're not a math person, take an easy math, notwithstanding all the "take the most challenging schedule...." spiel.

This is my opinion only, based on the recent experiences of my two oldest kids (and many of their friends) as well as presentations from the admissions staff. I"m sure some will disagree with parts, so take it for what it's worth.

(06-21-2013 11:35 AM)POTUS#4 Wrote:  

(06-21-2013 10:58 AM)Potomac Wrote:  I have no idea if the rumored rejected student had a competitive high school course load or not. I only heard the rumor of a 3.9 GPA student getting a rejection letter and I'm sitting here thinking, how are my kids going to get in one day?

I would have to assume that the person is talking about a weighted GPA. Depending on the school system, a weighted GPA of 3.9 might not put you in the top 1/3 of your class. I would have a hard time believing that the typical student with an unweighted GPA of 3.9 would not get into JMU, even without a challenging course schedule.

The weighted GPAs that the school systems use are meaningless to JMU. JMU knows how each school system (in Virginia, anyway) weighs their GPAs and they also know each school system's grading scale (A=90-100 vs. A=93-100, etc.). JMU looks at the raw high school transcript and uses their own method of ranking applicants.

In my opinion, JMU puts greater weight on the unweighted GPA than any other single factor in making admissions decisions - by far. Yes, they want you to take a challenging schedule (all schools say that), but you had better make sure you don't make Cs in a bunch of those AP classes.

For example, I think a student is better off making a B in a regular class than they are making a C in an AP class, even though most school systems weigh them exactly the same for GPA purposes. JMU hates Cs. Take all the AP classes your heart desires - if you're sure you won't make a C. If you're not a math person, take an easy math, notwithstanding all the "take the most challenging schedule...." spiel.

This is my opinion only, based on the recent experiences of my two oldest kids (and many of their friends) as well as presentations from the admissions staff. I"m sure some will disagree with parts, so take it for what it's worth.

my kid's experience is that he took a few APs and Honors courses and generally got B's in those (I can only remember 1 A AP class) also got a mix of A's and B's in his other classes (can't remember any c's - unless maybe calculus). I would also recommend a mix of School activities to complement the grades and sat scores. Still can't figure out the Tech waiting list - i was a little surprised.

Getting away from grades, GPA, SAT scores for a minute, I've been told JMU will only accept a certain number of students from one HS. That's Carolina's deal down here. Therefore, a kid can be grouped with a bunch of others, some get in, others don't.

(06-21-2013 01:04 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  Getting away from grades, GPA, SAT scores for a minute, I've been told JMU will only accept a certain number of students from one HS. That's Carolina's deal down here. Therefore, a kid can be grouped with a bunch of others, some get in, others don't.

If you ask JMU admissions, they will vigorously deny that they use any sort of quota for schools or school systems.

(06-21-2013 07:27 AM)Clueless Economist Wrote:  

(06-21-2013 06:58 AM)JMU John Wrote:  Fairfax county is 5.0 for an A in AP honors and 4.5 for an A in Honors. And it would be best to have at least 3.75 GPA in a challenging course load with decent test scores to assure JMU admission. VT is similar. 3.5 with same course load would be good for GMU and you can indeed get down to 3.0 or maybe a tad below that for ODU, Radford but they have to be decent classes. UVa gets up to 4.5+ with W&M slight under that.

My son ended up with a 3.9 and SAT at 1900 (1250 without writing) with a total of 7 AP classes. He got in at JMU early admission, GMU honors early admission, and VT regular decision, denied at W&M and UChicago, and wait listed at Villanova.

Are these actual statistics or are you just pulling them out of your butt?

My son's high school puts out detailed GPA / SAT stats on their students who applied and who were / were not accepted so this based on a good sample size on an overall student body of 500+ studentss which generates a pretty good sample size for the above colleges.

Anybody else certain they wouldn't get accepted at JMU with their HS credentials if they applied now? 3.9 GPA students are getting rejected!? What is this madness?

Aren't you glad you asked the question, Dukester!

(06-21-2013 03:56 PM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  Anybody else certain they wouldn't get accepted at JMU with their HS credentials if they applied now? 3.9 GPA students are getting rejected!? What is this madness?

It could certainly be based on other factors. I was in a lot of stuff in HS, sports, clubs, trouble etc. And had plenty of other "resume" filler that was basically crap but looked good on paper. If you are a 3.9 student and have nothing else to offer, I could see that being an obstacle.

The theory back then (and may still be) was that JMU preferred the well-rounded student. So, a 3.7 and band, sports, perhaps a job history, yearbook, SGA etc might get the nod first.

And that certain HS quota thing was a rumor back then as well. It was denied then too.

(06-21-2013 03:56 PM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  Anybody else certain they wouldn't get accepted at JMU with their HS credentials if they applied now? 3.9 GPA students are getting rejected!? What is this madness?

I wouldn't and didn't - had to go to ODU for a year and half and do pretty well before I could transfer to JMU.

(06-21-2013 05:49 PM)GeoJMU Wrote:  

(06-21-2013 03:56 PM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  Anybody else certain they wouldn't get accepted at JMU with their HS credentials if they applied now? 3.9 GPA students are getting rejected!? What is this madness?

I wouldn't and didn't - had to go to ODU for a year and half and do pretty well before I could transfer to JMU.

It's kind of like that scene near the end of "The Shawshank Redemption"...Andy Dufresne - who crawled through a river of **** and came out clean on the other side...

(06-21-2013 06:05 PM)NH/JMU Saxkow Wrote:  

(06-21-2013 05:49 PM)GeoJMU Wrote:  

(06-21-2013 03:56 PM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  Anybody else certain they wouldn't get accepted at JMU with their HS credentials if they applied now? 3.9 GPA students are getting rejected!? What is this madness?

I wouldn't and didn't - had to go to ODU for a year and half and do pretty well before I could transfer to JMU.

It's kind of like that scene near the end of "The Shawshank Redemption"...Andy Dufresne - who crawled through a river of **** and came out clean on the other side...

Well played Sir!

(06-21-2013 06:13 PM)olddawg Wrote:  

(06-21-2013 06:05 PM)NH/JMU Saxkow Wrote:  

(06-21-2013 05:49 PM)GeoJMU Wrote:  

(06-21-2013 03:56 PM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  Anybody else certain they wouldn't get accepted at JMU with their HS credentials if they applied now? 3.9 GPA students are getting rejected!? What is this madness?

I wouldn't and didn't - had to go to ODU for a year and half and do pretty well before I could transfer to JMU.

It's kind of like that scene near the end of "The Shawshank Redemption"...Andy Dufresne - who crawled through a river of **** and came out clean on the other side...

Well played Sir!

Awesome - yes it was exactly like that!

(06-21-2013 02:22 PM)POTUS#4 Wrote:  

(06-21-2013 01:04 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  Getting away from grades, GPA, SAT scores for a minute, I've been told JMU will only accept a certain number of students from one HS. That's Carolina's deal down here. Therefore, a kid can be grouped with a bunch of others, some get in, others don't.

If you ask JMU admissions, they will vigorously deny that they use any sort of quota for schools or school systems.

Yep, I recall them proclaiming that on my tours about a decade ago, along with the various seminar meetings we attended.
I have since heard from an admissions employee that that's a lie though. There is very much a region/county and a HS quota. Kids coming from fairfax, prince William and Loudon counties have the highest standards placed on them.

(06-21-2013 07:31 PM)Potomac Wrote:  

(06-21-2013 02:22 PM)POTUS#4 Wrote:  

(06-21-2013 01:04 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  Getting away from grades, GPA, SAT scores for a minute, I've been told JMU will only accept a certain number of students from one HS. That's Carolina's deal down here. Therefore, a kid can be grouped with a bunch of others, some get in, others don't.

If you ask JMU admissions, they will vigorously deny that they use any sort of quota for schools or school systems.

Yep, I recall them proclaiming that on my tours about a decade ago, along with the various seminar meetings we attended.
I have since heard from an admissions employee that that's a lie though. There is very much a region/county and a HS quota. Kids coming from fairfax, prince William and Loudon counties have the highest standards placed on them.

There is no quota. I've been working with the Admissions folks in my role with the Honors Advisory Council. There is heavy recruiting in the Richmond Metro area and in Northern VA but not a quota from various high schools. That being said, Admissions has high expectations from both areas based on historical results and if students hit the thresholds that Admissions has come to expect, the students in that zone almost all get accepted. Until I started to dig into this issue for the purpose of getting top kids for the Honors Program, I believed JMU had an admissions quota from high schools. Not true at all.

(06-21-2013 06:13 PM)olddawg Wrote:  

(06-21-2013 06:05 PM)NH/JMU Saxkow Wrote:  

(06-21-2013 05:49 PM)GeoJMU Wrote:  

(06-21-2013 03:56 PM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  Anybody else certain they wouldn't get accepted at JMU with their HS credentials if they applied now? 3.9 GPA students are getting rejected!? What is this madness?

I wouldn't and didn't - had to go to ODU for a year and half and do pretty well before I could transfer to JMU.

It's kind of like that scene near the end of "The Shawshank Redemption"...Andy Dufresne - who crawled through a river of **** and came out clean on the other side...

Well played Sir!

It's really interesting how much time is spent on this board belittling other schools. For the record, VCU, ODU and GMU are all very good schools. In fact, VA has some of the best state schools in the nation. Why grown men would spend so much time trying to randomly take shots at other good schools seems odd.

What is also interesting is that VCU/ODU/GMU are all urban schools which the academic metrics used don't typically favor. Things like freshman retention are much more difficult in cities with a more transient population than Harrisionburg. So the one size fits all approach to ranking schools has some inherent bias toward "traditional" schools.

However being urban plays in our favor when it comes to conference realignment. Having the 43rd largest media market undoubtedly played a role in ODU being called up to FBS ahead of JMU. Richmond and DC were probably attractive to the A10 too.

So the same markets that may hold urban schools back academically also move us forward athletically. Conversely JMU is dealing with the opposite. The whole thing is a little ironic if you ask me.

(06-21-2013 07:48 PM)HotHamandCheese84 Wrote:  

(06-21-2013 07:31 PM)Potomac Wrote:  

(06-21-2013 02:22 PM)POTUS#4 Wrote:  

(06-21-2013 01:04 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  Getting away from grades, GPA, SAT scores for a minute, I've been told JMU will only accept a certain number of students from one HS. That's Carolina's deal down here. Therefore, a kid can be grouped with a bunch of others, some get in, others don't.

If you ask JMU admissions, they will vigorously deny that they use any sort of quota for schools or school systems.

Yep, I recall them proclaiming that on my tours about a decade ago, along with the various seminar meetings we attended.
I have since heard from an admissions employee that that's a lie though. There is very much a region/county and a HS quota. Kids coming from fairfax, prince William and Loudon counties have the highest standards placed on them.

There is no quota. I've been working with the Admissions folks in my role with the Honors Advisory Council. There is heavy recruiting in the Richmond Metro area and in Northern VA but not a quota from various high schools. That being said, Admissions has high expectations from both areas based on historical results and if students hit the thresholds that Admissions has come to expect, the students in that zone almost all get accepted. Until I started to dig into this issue for the purpose of getting top kids for the Honors Program, I believed JMU had an admissions quota from high schools. Not true at all.

No rough guideline? 4,000 admitted students each year. What if most of the best are coming out of fairfax? Will they let them all be admitted or have to stop at a certain point and expand from other state regions even if they're less qualified?

There are guidelines so there's diversity from various parts of the state and out of state as well. The formula is quite complex and I don't pretend to be well versed in how it all works. As a very general rule, JMU competes for the students applying to UVA and VA Tech for the most part. If a kid gets into UVA and JMU, the stats we track in Honors (kids that we compete with UVA over will normally get an invitation to our Honors Program) shows that the kid is going to UVA 70-80% of the time unless JMU has a program that's better than UVA (Communication Disorders is a good example) and he/she gets a scholarship. As for Tech, we get 40-50% of the kids that get into both Honors Programs. Tech has more scholarships to offer to Honors students.

The above is the long way of saying that JMU Admissions knows which kids have the grades and SAT scores to get into UVA, Tech & JMU and the algorithm shows how many will go to UVA, Tech and JMU so there can be a ton of acceptance letters sent out. In Honors at JMU, we send out 1,200-1,400 acceptance letters to get 200-225 Honors students each year.

HHC, could you give us some idea what the Honors program is looking for? Grades, SAT, extra curriculars, perhaps job experience etc? Curious as to what makes that distinction between a top kid getting "regular" or even early admission and what moves them to Honors. Is it soley based on grades? My inclination would be to doubt that, but I may be completey wrong there.

thx

(06-22-2013 03:50 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  HHC, could you give us some idea what the Honors program is looking for? Grades, SAT, extra curriculars, perhaps job experience etc? Curious as to what makes that distinction between a top kid getting "regular" or even early admission and what moves them to Honors. Is it soley based on grades? My inclination would be to doubt that, but I may be completey wrong there.

thx

Our actual stats from this year are not public yet but I can tell you that the average SAT is over 1,300 and the avaerage weighted GPA is 4.3. We will take more than 200 if we have great kids. The requirements have gotten much tougher since 2009. Some of the students that got in 3-4 years ago would not make the cut in 2013. Last year the Honors Program snagged a larger number of students that got into UVA and Tech than at any other time.

One of the strategies the Honors Advisory Council is helping to formulate is being the alternative to UVA for many students. We are not going to be #1 in the Commonwealth but we should be #2. We should not lose out, as a general rule, for most of the top students to any other public university that has the programs that we offer. W&M is not really in the mix. We get our share of kids that apply to both JMU and W&M but there are a number of those kids that really belong at W&M and not JMU. I'm not being snarky or mean about it. The fact is that a typical W&M applicant is very smart and the limited programs at W&M are great for them.

We are working to get our numbers up to at least 40-50% of the students that get into UVA and JMU. This will be a challenge. The best way to get them to JMU over UVA is to offer more scholarships, great hands on opportunities, great mentoring with alums, great internships with alums and great job opportunities in companies where alums are working.

The below is from our website and the stats are from 2012:

ADMISSION CRITERIA:

The entering class is limited to 200 students.
Admissions decisions are based on:
high school grades
standardized test scores
extracurricular activities
leadership
Most applicants will have:
at least a 1280 combined reading/math SAT (or 30 ACT) AND
all A’s (or mostly all A’s) in core courses, including honors and AP courses AND
significant extracurricular and leadership experiences
We may consider students who may fall short in ONE of these areas.

To review the requirements of the program, CLICK HERE.

Questions about applying? Please see our Frequently Asked Questions.


If you need help getting Honors to take a hard look at someone or you want an interview with the Director of Honors, e-mail me at: sbrown5683@gmail.com.

Good stuff, thanks.

I like that the goals are as ambitious as they are. 40-50% of those that also get admittance to UVA is very aggressive. But I agree that JMU, with some combination of all that can be offered above can certainly get there. Nice job.