Quote:governor's lawsuit against the NCAA over sanctions against Penn State related to Jerry Sandusky, calling his argument "a Hail Mary pass" that easily warranted dismissal.
U.S. Middle District Judge Yvette Kane's decision puts an early end to the anti-trust lawsuit Gov. Tom Corbett filed in January in which he sought to overturn a $60 million fine, a four-year bowl ban, scholarship limits and other penalties.
She said she could not "find any factual allegations supporting (Corbett's) allegation of 'concerted action' that might nudge its conspiracy claim into 'plausible' territory."
She said that even if the penalties make it harder for Penn State to recruit quality football players, that would not make it an anti-trust case.
"The fact that Penn State will offer fewer scholarships over a period of four years does not plausibly support its allegation that the reduction of scholarships at Penn State will result in a market-wide anticompetitive effect, such that the 'nation's top scholastic football players' would be unable to obtain a scholarship in the nationwide market for Division I football players," Kane wrote.
(06-06-2013 08:54 AM)ClairtonPanther Wrote: Attempting to overturn the sanctions/fine was stupid, but making sure all of the fines benefits PA charities isn't such a bad thing.
No doubt, but then sue for that specifically, not having the whole thing overturned under antitrust grounds. Dumb lawsuit is still dumb.
A PA judge has thrown the Governors Anti-trust lawsuit against the NCAA.
The judge went on to say:
"Even were Plaintiff able to articulate financial injury to Penn State recognizable under the Sherman Act, the Governor cannot lawfully advance this claim on Penn State’s behalf."
Tom Corbett is the former Pennsylvania state Attorney General. Do you mean to tell me he that didn't realize that he couldn't sue the NCAA on Penn State's behalf?
Corbett always knew exactly how this was going to play out. He did it to get the Penn State lunatics off his back. The lunatics don't give a schitt about Penn State University as a whole and they certainly don't give a schitt about all of those innocent children who were repeatedly raped by the school's legendary defensive coordinator while all of the school's most powerful people sat on the sidelines and did nothing. All the lunatics care about - and all they have ever cared about - is restoring Joe Paterno's once unblemished but now tattered reputation. Oh, and they want his all-time wins record back too. Everything else ranges from secondary (e.g. Penn State's reputation) to completely irrelevant (e.g. the health and well being of the victims Paterno and his underlings ruthlessly conspired to allow Sandusky to continue to feast on so that the football money train would continue without interruption).
While I feel a sense of justice over this for the heinous nature of the crimes, I fear for the nature of this decision empowering the NCAA to take such unprecedented action in the future, especially in a day and time where they are feeling their power vulnerable with the fiasco that has come from the Miami investigation.
Who's to say that the NCAA can't go after another school after a number of DUI arrests, larcenies, etc. While not anywhere near the level of the Penn State situation, they share the fact that they are outside of the typical NCAA area of responsibility.
While I shed no tear for the NCAA winning this round because of who they are fighting, I fear for where this is going to lead. The NCAA has shown time after time they aren't the shining knight they like to portray. The saying "Well Alabama violated the NCAA rule so let's slap down Prairie View" is true. The fact that Auburn, Ohio State, and North Carolina have escaped with either no penalties or minimal penalties after major violations shows that premiere programs get by with far more than those that aren't. The NCAA needs a reality check, and sadly it isn't here yet. I fully expect after this ruling that they will go after Miami full bore because the court system has shown that even when the NCAA oversteps it's bounds of responsibility (like in the Penn State case) they will not be held responsible.
(06-06-2013 04:53 PM)Kaplony Wrote: While I feel a sense of justice over this for the heinous nature of the crimes, I fear for the nature of this decision empowering the NCAA to take such unprecedented action in the future, especially in a day and time where they are feeling their power vulnerable with the fiasco that has come from the Miami investigation.
Who's to say that the NCAA can't go after another school after a number of DUI arrests, larcenies, etc. While not anywhere near the level of the Penn State situation, they share the fact that they are outside of the typical NCAA area of responsibility.
While I shed no tear for the NCAA winning this round because of who they are fighting, I fear for where this is going to lead. The NCAA has shown time after time they aren't the shining knight they like to portray. The saying "Well Alabama violated the NCAA rule so let's slap down Prairie View" is true. The fact that Auburn, Ohio State, and North Carolina have escaped with either no penalties or minimal penalties after major violations shows that premiere programs get by with far more than those that aren't. The NCAA needs a reality check, and sadly it isn't here yet. I fully expect after this ruling that they will go after Miami full bore because the court system has shown that even when the NCAA oversteps it's bounds of responsibility (like in the Penn State case) they will not be held responsible.
1. The NCAA did not overstep it's bounds here.
2. Miami did that chit and they deserve to be hammered.
3. I agree that they need to completely reorganize and the schools need to give them more rights in investigating violations.
(06-06-2013 06:01 PM)NJRedMan Wrote: 1. The NCAA did not overstep it's bounds here.
What NCAA bylaw clearly allowed the NCAA to impose the penalties they did to Penn State?
Quote:Miami did that chit and they deserve to be hammered.
Did they really? What legally (by NCAA standards) obtained evidence do we have? Statements from someone convicted of ponzi schemes?
Quote:I agree that they need to completely reorganize and the schools need to give them more rights in investigating violations.
The problem with the NCAA is the fact they will never be an effective organization concerning investigations because other than active players and coaches they can't assure testimony.
Penn State is lucky they didn't lose their accreditation over this. The NCAA could have just as easily cited Penn State for lack of institutional control and given them the death penalty. So IMO Penn State fans should shut the hell up, and admit they harbored a pedophile on their campus for a couple of decades...
(06-06-2013 06:01 PM)NJRedMan Wrote: 1. The NCAA did not overstep it's bounds here.
What NCAA bylaw clearly allowed the NCAA to impose the penalties they did to Penn State?
Quote:Miami did that chit and they deserve to be hammered.
Did they really? What legally (by NCAA standards) obtained evidence do we have? Statements from someone convicted of ponzi schemes?
Quote:I agree that they need to completely reorganize and the schools need to give them more rights in investigating violations.
The problem with the NCAA is the fact they will never be an effective organization concerning investigations because other than active players and coaches they can't assure testimony.
Penn State violated the following articles of the NCAA Constitution:
Articles 2.1, 6.01.1, and 6.4 of the Constitution which deal with Institutional Control and Responsibilities for Actions of Outside Entities, and article 2.4 which deals with acting with responsibility, respect, fairness, and honesty.
Bylaws 10.1, 10.01.1, 11.1.1 and 19.01.2 which deal with Ethical Conduct, and monitoring of personnel who report to the coach.
As for Miami, their day in court will come very soon. We shall see what other evidence is included.
Quote:Miami did that chit and they deserve to be hammered.
Did they really? What legally (by NCAA standards) obtained evidence do we have? Statements from someone convicted of ponzi schemes?
Oh please, OJ got off for double murder and we all know he did that chit. Same with Miami, that guy was a total fanboy and those kids were going to those parties. That dude gave a big ole check to the president in a bowling alley, what would stop him from giving anything to a FB player? He was on the sidelines for crying out loud, but he never ever gave anything to a player? Please. I know you ACC guys are all about spin and denial but this isn't even close to a witch hunt. They did these things. He didn't get time off his sentence for telling this story to the NCAA. Also your implying that we can't trust a criminal doesn't apply to actual courts so why should it apply here?
(This post was last modified: 06-06-2013 07:28 PM by NJRedMan.)
(06-06-2013 06:36 PM)bitcruncher Wrote: Penn State is lucky they didn't lose their accreditation over this. The NCAA could have just as easily cited Penn State for lack of institutional control and given them the death penalty. So IMO Penn State fans should shut the hell up, and admit they harbored a pedophile on their campus for a couple of decades...
(06-06-2013 07:15 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:
(06-06-2013 06:27 PM)Kaplony Wrote:
(06-06-2013 06:01 PM)NJRedMan Wrote: 1. The NCAA did not overstep it's bounds here.
What NCAA bylaw clearly allowed the NCAA to impose the penalties they did to Penn State?
Quote:Miami did that chit and they deserve to be hammered.
Did they really? What legally (by NCAA standards) obtained evidence do we have? Statements from someone convicted of ponzi schemes?
Quote:I agree that they need to completely reorganize and the schools need to give them more rights in investigating violations.
The problem with the NCAA is the fact they will never be an effective organization concerning investigations because other than active players and coaches they can't assure testimony.
Penn State violated the following articles of the NCAA Constitution:
Articles 2.1, 6.01.1, and 6.4 of the Constitution which deal with Institutional Control and Responsibilities for Actions of Outside Entities, and article 2.4 which deals with acting with responsibility, respect, fairness, and honesty.
Bylaws 10.1, 10.01.1, 11.1.1 and 19.01.2 which deal with Ethical Conduct, and monitoring of personnel who report to the coach.
As for Miami, their day in court will come very soon. We shall see what other evidence is included.
Again, while I am in no way condoning the Penn State situation, explain to me where they violated the existing rules of the NCAA, other than the supposed all encompassing "lack of institutional control"?
Be careful how you answer, because there aren't many programs who can't be found guilty much in the same way as Penn State was the way it is spelled out in the link bitcruncher posted. Have three players in various sports arrested for DUI in as random a specified period as the NCAA deems necessary? Probation for you. Get two players busted for credit card fraud? Again, probation for you. But only if you are a high profile program.
These words damn the NCAA " The sexual abuse of children on a university campus by a former university official, and the active concealment of that abuse while despicable, ordinarily would not be actionable by the NCAA. Yet, in this instance it was the fear of or deference to the omnipotent football program that enabled a sexual predator to attract and abuse his victims."
So what they are saying is they would take similar action against Duke if a basketball recruit was abused by someone close to the program, but if it were a football recruit it would not be subject to the same? If a kid is sexually abused at a Rutgers camp since they are irrelevant in everything they are free to go?
From this point on the NCAA has opened a Pandora's Box. Either they hammer any school who has multiple violations of civil law or else they face the public view that they went after Penn State simply because it was the PC thing to do at the time. The only reason this suit was dismissed was the fact that the PA Governor brought it, and that shouldn't be viewed as a validation of the NCAA's response.
(This post was last modified: 06-06-2013 09:08 PM by Kaplony.)
(06-06-2013 06:36 PM)bitcruncher Wrote: Penn State is lucky they didn't lose their accreditation over this. The NCAA could have just as easily cited Penn State for lack of institutional control and given them the death penalty. So IMO Penn State fans should shut the hell up, and admit they harbored a pedophile on their campus for a couple of decades...
(06-06-2013 07:15 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:
(06-06-2013 06:27 PM)Kaplony Wrote:
(06-06-2013 06:01 PM)NJRedMan Wrote: 1. The NCAA did not overstep it's bounds here.
What NCAA bylaw clearly allowed the NCAA to impose the penalties they did to Penn State?
Quote:Miami did that chit and they deserve to be hammered.
Did they really? What legally (by NCAA standards) obtained evidence do we have? Statements from someone convicted of ponzi schemes?
Quote:I agree that they need to completely reorganize and the schools need to give them more rights in investigating violations.
The problem with the NCAA is the fact they will never be an effective organization concerning investigations because other than active players and coaches they can't assure testimony.
Penn State violated the following articles of the NCAA Constitution:
Articles 2.1, 6.01.1, and 6.4 of the Constitution which deal with Institutional Control and Responsibilities for Actions of Outside Entities, and article 2.4 which deals with acting with responsibility, respect, fairness, and honesty.
Bylaws 10.1, 10.01.1, 11.1.1 and 19.01.2 which deal with Ethical Conduct, and monitoring of personnel who report to the coach.
As for Miami, their day in court will come very soon. We shall see what other evidence is included.
Again, while I am in no way condoning the Penn State situation, explain to me where they violated the existing rules of the NCAA, other than the supposed all encompassing "lack of institutional control"?
Be careful how you answer, because there aren't many programs who can't be found guilty much in the same way as Penn State was the way it is spelled out in the link bitcruncher posted. Have three players in various sports arrested for DUI in as random a specified period as the NCAA deems necessary? Probation for you. Get two players busted for credit card fraud? Again, probation for you. But only if you are a high profile program.
These words damn the NCAA " The sexual abuse of children on a university campus by a former university official, and the active concealment of that abuse while despicable, ordinarily would not be actionable by the NCAA. Yet, in this instance it was the fear of or deference to the omnipotent football program that enabled a sexual predator to attract and abuse his victims."
So what they are saying is they would take similar action against Duke if a basketball recruit was abused by someone close to the program, but if it were a football recruit it would not be subject to the same? If a kid is sexually abused at a Rutgers camp since they are irrelevant in everything they are free to go?
From this point on the NCAA has opened a Pandora's Box. Either they hammer any school who has multiple violations of civil law or else they face the public view that they went after Penn State simply because it was the PC thing to do at the time. The only reason this suit was dismissed was the fact that the PA Governor brought it, and that shouldn't be viewed as a validation of the NCAA's response.
(06-06-2013 06:36 PM)bitcruncher Wrote: Penn State is lucky they didn't lose their accreditation over this. The NCAA could have just as easily cited Penn State for lack of institutional control and given them the death penalty. So IMO Penn State fans should shut the hell up, and admit they harbored a pedophile on their campus for a couple of decades...
(06-06-2013 07:15 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:
(06-06-2013 06:27 PM)Kaplony Wrote:
(06-06-2013 06:01 PM)NJRedMan Wrote: 1. The NCAA did not overstep it's bounds here.
What NCAA bylaw clearly allowed the NCAA to impose the penalties they did to Penn State?
Quote:Miami did that chit and they deserve to be hammered.
Did they really? What legally (by NCAA standards) obtained evidence do we have? Statements from someone convicted of ponzi schemes?
Quote:I agree that they need to completely reorganize and the schools need to give them more rights in investigating violations.
The problem with the NCAA is the fact they will never be an effective organization concerning investigations because other than active players and coaches they can't assure testimony.
Penn State violated the following articles of the NCAA Constitution:
Articles 2.1, 6.01.1, and 6.4 of the Constitution which deal with Institutional Control and Responsibilities for Actions of Outside Entities, and article 2.4 which deals with acting with responsibility, respect, fairness, and honesty.
Bylaws 10.1, 10.01.1, 11.1.1 and 19.01.2 which deal with Ethical Conduct, and monitoring of personnel who report to the coach.
As for Miami, their day in court will come very soon. We shall see what other evidence is included.
Again, while I am in no way condoning the Penn State situation, explain to me where they violated the existing rules of the NCAA, other than the supposed all encompassing "lack of institutional control"?
Be careful how you answer, because there aren't many programs who can't be found guilty much in the same way as Penn State was the way it is spelled out in the link bitcruncher posted. Have three players in various sports arrested for DUI in as random a specified period as the NCAA deems necessary? Probation for you. Get two players busted for credit card fraud? Again, probation for you. But only if you are a high profile program.
These words damn the NCAA " The sexual abuse of children on a university campus by a former university official, and the active concealment of that abuse while despicable, ordinarily would not be actionable by the NCAA. Yet, in this instance it was the fear of or deference to the omnipotent football program that enabled a sexual predator to attract and abuse his victims."
So what they are saying is they would take similar action against Duke if a basketball recruit was abused by someone close to the program, but if it were a football recruit it would not be subject to the same? If a kid is sexually abused at a Rutgers camp since they are irrelevant in everything they are free to go?
From this point on the NCAA has opened a Pandora's Box. Either they hammer any school who has multiple violations of civil law or else they face the public view that they went after Penn State simply because it was the PC thing to do at the time. The only reason this suit was dismissed was the fact that the PA Governor brought it, and that shouldn't be viewed as a validation of the NCAA's response.
The federal government still has yet to have their say about Penn State's violation of the Clery Act. More punishment may be forthcoming...
(06-06-2013 09:07 PM)Kaplony Wrote: Again, while I am in no way condoning the Penn State situation, explain to me where they violated the existing rules of the NCAA, other than the supposed all encompassing "lack of institutional control"?
Be careful how you answer, because there aren't many programs who can't be found guilty much in the same way as Penn State was the way it is spelled out in the link bitcruncher posted. Have three players in various sports arrested for DUI in as random a specified period as the NCAA deems necessary? Probation for you. Get two players busted for credit card fraud? Again, probation for you. But only if you are a high profile program.
These words damn the NCAA " The sexual abuse of children on a university campus by a former university official, and the active concealment of that abuse while despicable, ordinarily would not be actionable by the NCAA. Yet, in this instance it was the fear of or deference to the omnipotent football program that enabled a sexual predator to attract and abuse his victims."
So what they are saying is they would take similar action against Duke if a basketball recruit was abused by someone close to the program, but if it were a football recruit it would not be subject to the same? If a kid is sexually abused at a Rutgers camp since they are irrelevant in everything they are free to go?
From this point on the NCAA has opened a Pandora's Box. Either they hammer any school who has multiple violations of civil law or else they face the public view that they went after Penn State simply because it was the PC thing to do at the time. The only reason this suit was dismissed was the fact that the PA Governor brought it, and that shouldn't be viewed as a validation of the NCAA's response.
You bring up a fair point about the preeminence of the program, but I think you've twisted the language a bit to exaggerate the point the NCAA was trying to make into something it's not. The NCAA was simply trying to say that the failures of the administration to report Sandusky or tacitly condone his behavior were because of the fear of tarnishing the prestige of the program, not that the prestige of the program is what makes the crimes more heinous. The text goes on to say that because the program was so prestigious, it had in and of itself transformed into an entity outside of the spirit of what college athletics should be. In other words, the violations were more or less because the program was too full of itself that it failed to police itself. Also keep in mind that the Freeh report uncovered the fact that PSU basically had no compliance department and the program had very little oversight from the administration. That's really what was at the heart of PSU's penalties.
Add to that the unethical conduct of the administration, and the other principles of responsibility, respect, and honesty that were violated, and there's your justification.
Now to address the other hypotheticals, if a school were to continually have violations of civil law, but dealt with them appropriately, then there's no violation. But if a program follows the steps that PSU took and systemically tried to cover it up, then yes, precedent has been established - as well it should.
(06-06-2013 04:53 PM)Kaplony Wrote: While I feel a sense of justice over this for the heinous nature of the crimes, I fear for the nature of this decision empowering the NCAA to take such unprecedented action in the future, especially in a day and time where they are feeling their power vulnerable with the fiasco that has come from the Miami investigation.
Who's to say that the NCAA can't go after another school after a number of DUI arrests, larcenies, etc. While not anywhere near the level of the Penn State situation, they share the fact that they are outside of the typical NCAA area of responsibility.
While I shed no tear for the NCAA winning this round because of who they are fighting, I fear for where this is going to lead. The NCAA has shown time after time they aren't the shining knight they like to portray. The saying "Well Alabama violated the NCAA rule so let's slap down Prairie View" is true. The fact that Auburn, Ohio State, and North Carolina have escaped with either no penalties or minimal penalties after major violations shows that premiere programs get by with far more than those that aren't. The NCAA needs a reality check, and sadly it isn't here yet. I fully expect after this ruling that they will go after Miami full bore because the court system has shown that even when the NCAA oversteps it's bounds of responsibility (like in the Penn State case) they will not be held responsible.
I agree with that. Throw in the fact that there are allegations (from former players) that USC has been letting players sell tickets (i.e. indirectly paying players) since the 1980's. I know they were just sanctioned, but 30 years of payments v. on and off sanctions just doesn't seem right.
Furthermore, although many here will disagree with me, I think that if PSU was small, private, and in the MAC, they wouldn't have a football team right now.
(06-07-2013 12:53 AM)nzmorange Wrote: I think that if PSU was small, private, and in the MAC, they wouldn't have a football team right now.
I don't doubt that one bit. The only thing that saved Penn State was the fact that they're the state university for the State of Pennsylvania, with a lot of influential people that have a vested interest in the program...
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Federal Judge Throws Out PA Lawsuit vs. NCAA
