The days of these questions being relevant are about gone regardless. State funding for the colleges is down across the board and its not going back up anytime soon. The funds aren't there. Increasingly large portion of funds (and thus direction of the schools) are from donations.

I do hate the push for more and more elite schools. When I was born in the mid 80s anyone could get onto Ohio State's main campus and pay for most of it by working in the summer and part time without loans. The direction we've gone, it's not an improvement and that goes for the national way as a whole. Too many easy loans (allowing colleges to raise tution and not force them to control staff and other cost while students pay off debts they can't even get out of in bankruptcy), too much focus on everyone having a college education regardless of employment opportunities (making every job now want them as its becoming just a new high school degree), too much disconnect between college and the rest of life.

As for the other issues:
1. The state is not going to tell Ohio State to play any one Ohio school without offering to make up the lost money a home and home every year would cost. In addition to that, Ohio State fans would raise as much noise against that as Cincinnati fans would push for it given that the 9 game Big Ten schedule would mean no other home and home series (they need 7 home games).
2. Any money taken from Ohio State and directed elsewhere is going to seriously reduce the number of sports. It offers a ton even by power school standards and none of that money comes from student fees. That's paid for by those funds and some of those sports would disappear if you take any serious kind of money from the athletic department.

(06-03-2013 01:23 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 01:19 PM)ucnaticat Wrote:  From Cincinnati's president via twitter

@PrezOno: If Indiana, Michigan, & Illinois can support the development of multiple world class campuses, there is no reason Ohio cannot do the same.

@PrezOno: As presidents we must celebrate each others successes. We must collaborate, not compete; we must place the welfare of the state first.

@PrezOno: Now is the time for Ohio to move beyond a single flagship model to one where there is genuine strategic support for multiple universities

@PrezOno: The great university systems in the US are mature enough to embrace the concept of multiple world class campuses eg Berkeley, UCSF, UCSD...

This is about way more than athletics. It is about research money and economic development in the state.

I get why he's playing this up, but I don't think he's going to get the desired result.

I think he over played his hand.

(06-04-2013 04:26 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 01:23 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 01:19 PM)ucnaticat Wrote:  From Cincinnati's president via twitter

@PrezOno: If Indiana, Michigan, & Illinois can support the development of multiple world class campuses, there is no reason Ohio cannot do the same.

@PrezOno: As presidents we must celebrate each others successes. We must collaborate, not compete; we must place the welfare of the state first.

@PrezOno: Now is the time for Ohio to move beyond a single flagship model to one where there is genuine strategic support for multiple universities

@PrezOno: The great university systems in the US are mature enough to embrace the concept of multiple world class campuses eg Berkeley, UCSF, UCSD...

This is about way more than athletics. It is about research money and economic development in the state.

I get why he's playing this up, but I don't think he's going to get the desired result.

I think he over played his hand.

But what's he got to lose? We already have one of the most influencial programs in the country actively campaigning against us in our own state. UC receives next to nothing from anyone outside the 275 loop as it is, there is nowhere to go but up in the rest of the state by tackling OSU head on. The state isnt going to cut what little funding support we have to a 40K plus school over something like this.

Gee, I believe I heard an idiot savant bigot speak for Ohio State!

UC had its best run in state politics when Bob Taft was running the state. UC and local community need a Cincinnati guy or girl as governor again. Its really not just about sports it about academics. I watched UC suspend long standing PhD programs because they didn't the money accept new students. The College of Law needs a new building and better resources our its rankings will continue to fall from the top 50 to barely in the top 100, which it has been doing for the last decade or so. Most of the academic progress has come at the undergraduate level but graduate and professional degrees need funding too.

(06-03-2013 10:54 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Technically, SUNY is more like Cal State in that there is no designated flagship. However, the Cal system...it's Berkeley AND UCLA.

Virtually all the UC schools are flagships. UC-Davis and UC-San Diego are in the same category as UCLA in academic circles. Several of the others are close behind.

(06-03-2013 11:55 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 11:49 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 11:02 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 10:55 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 10:53 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  This is similar to the same stuff NC State pulled because they wanted to be called a "flagship" in NC. Everyone knows that UNC is THE flagship for the state, but NCSU got tired of not being recognized as a flagship. In this case, NCSU is the largest school while UNC is the most well known and most prestigious.

Hmm. As someone in Ohio I have never recognized UNC as any better than NC State. Maybe in state there is a perception there, I don't think the perception outside of the state is that UNC is better than anything save basketball.

You are in the extreme minority. UNC is far superior academically as noted by numerous publications. Athletically, UNC is in the top 10 for national championships in the nation with 40. I think NC State has about 8.

I always thought UNC and NC State were like a lot of Southern states and Indiana - an ag/engr school and a liberal arts school. And I think that UNC is a better liberal arts school than NC State is an ag/engineering school. But these days, engineering is so much more valuable than liberal arts that I think of them as about equal as far as quality of school.

It's odd because in other states that have that setup, the schools typically have close to equal sized fanbases. But UNC definitely seems to be more popular than NCSU.

I think that's true of Virginia Tech and UVA (or W&M for that matter).

Georgia/Georgia Tech kinda has that setup but GT wins all around regardless.

Georgia Tech is the engineering school. UGA is liberal arts and ag. UGA refers to Georgia Tech as "that trade school on North Avenue." Until recently, Georgia Tech's non-engineering offerings were pretty limited. They still have a hard time finding a place to hide student-athletes.

(06-03-2013 06:48 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  UNC-CH is the flagship school in NC.
UNC-CH is the oldest public university in the country.
UNC-CH is the hardest public school in the state to get admitted into.
NCSU is the land grant university in NC.
NCSU is the second hardest public school in the state to get admitted into.
NCSU is the largest school in the state.
UNC is not UNC-CH. UNC is the system of 17 universities in the state.

The University of Georgia was founded in 1785, 10 years before UNC.

(06-03-2013 02:08 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 12:09 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 11:49 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  I always thought UNC and NC State were like a lot of Southern states and Indiana - an ag/engr school and a liberal arts school. And I think that UNC is a better liberal arts school than NC State is an ag/engineering school. But these days, engineering is so much more valuable than liberal arts that I think of them as about equal as far as quality of school.

I don't have anything for or against either school, but UNC fares much better in academic rankings and reputation.

THE: UNC tied for 42nd worldwide, NCSU ranked in the 301-350 range.

ARWU: UNC ranked 41st worldwide, NCSU in 151-200 range.

Oh I know that. That's what I said: UNC is a better liberal arts school than NCSU is an ag/engr school. But I'm an engineering elitist - I think engineering is so much a) harder and b) more valuable to society, that a medium-quality engineering school is just as good as a high quality liberal arts school.

A lot (not all, but a lot) of the fields where UNC is ranked higher than NCSU are fields that, quite frankly, no longer draw society's top talent. UNC has done a good job of switching its focus to more pure science and medical pursuits, so they've avoided the rapid decline that pure liberal arts schools like Miami (OH), W&M, and others have faced. But the gap between engineering and liberal arts as disciplines will only continue to widen. As liberal arts becomes viewed more and more like a fine arts degree by employers, schools with a liberal arts history like UNC, IU, etc will face real challenges in refocusing their priorities without losing their identity.

William & Mary and Miami are still highly regarded. Miami U (the one in Ohio) is still on the "public ivy" lists. Cincinnati is not. For that matter, Ohio St. usually doesn't make those lists.

(06-03-2013 01:40 PM)Carolina Stang Wrote:  In football, there is no difference between UNC and NCSU in the minds of folks in the state or folks nationally.

In basketball, there is obviously a huge difference in perception nationally. In Carolina, I'd say there are more casual UNC fans than NCSU.

Academically, the schools are night and day.

That's not really true. Academically it is a little harder to get into UNC-CH but not that much harder. Both schools are good at what they concentrate on but the focus isn't the same. If your interests are agricultural, engineering, textile or veterinary related you certainly don't want to go to UNC-CH. NCSU is highly regarded in the areas they focus on.

Night and day would be extreme differences in academic requirements or rigor. Academically UNC-CH, NCSU, ASU and UNC-W are similar. The difference would be night and day between those four schools and Elizabeth City State, Fayetteville State, and UNC-P. Those schools serve a different purpose. They provide an opportunity for a good college education for those that don't finish around the top of their class in high school or don't score particularly high on the SAT, but deserve an opportunity to succeed in higher education. They also provide an opportunity to non traditional students to go to a school near them when it isn't practical to pull up stakes and move.

Overplayed or not...successful or not.... President Ono saw the opportunity in the assinine comments by Gee to put this issue out there and get people talking about it.

Oh and its THE Ohio State University, people. Can we address them as such?

(06-04-2013 08:56 AM)Bearcat2012 Wrote:  Overplayed or not...successful or not.... President Ono saw the opportunity in the assinine comments by Gee to put this issue out there and get people talking about it.

Oh and its THE Ohio State University, people. Can we address them as such?

Yes, and while we're at it, we are THE Northern Illinois University. To distinguish us from all the other Northern Illinois Universities out there.

(06-04-2013 08:34 AM)bullet Wrote:  William & Mary and Miami are still highly regarded. Miami U (the one in Ohio) is still on the "public ivy" lists. Cincinnati is not. For that matter, Ohio St. usually doesn't make those lists.

Funny thing about that... about 5 years ago they were talking about consolidating the public universities. Miami would have been put under UC control.

There may be a "perception" that Miami is a better school, but if you talk to the hiring managers in Cincinnati and Dayton you'd probably get a different response, especially when it comes to anything engineering or technical. Miami has excelled in certain business arenas, but not in anything math or science related.

(06-03-2013 06:09 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  The whole "they owe it to the taxpayers" argument is BS because athletic departments are private organizations paid for entirely or in majority by private donations and so their decisions are not the purview of the state.

No problem there. Just gladly tell the entire school to turn over the tax-exempt status and relinquish the public subsidies.

If they want to be a business in any way, then run like a real business does.

Until then, as long as they take money from the state, they can be better ambassadors for their respective state's economy, and make it a priority to play each other in some regular fashion. Like what it used to do. When the game was actually more enjoyable.

(06-04-2013 08:28 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 06:48 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  UNC-CH is the flagship school in NC.
UNC-CH is the oldest public university in the country.
UNC-CH is the hardest public school in the state to get admitted into.
NCSU is the land grant university in NC.
NCSU is the second hardest public school in the state to get admitted into.
NCSU is the largest school in the state.
UNC is not UNC-CH. UNC is the system of 17 universities in the state.

The University of Georgia was founded in 1785, 10 years before UNC.

Always a good argument there. Both claim to be first. I believe the difference is one was chartered first the other started classes first. Both states along with Virginia, want to be first so all can claim it.

University of Georgia [edit]

Located in Athens, Georgia, the University of Georgia received its charter from the state in 1785, making the University of Georgia the first state-chartered public university in the United States. As a result of this distinction UGA brands itself as the "birthplace of the American system of higher education." A site was selected for the university, and it began admitting students, in 1801.[1]
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill [edit]

The state of North Carolina chartered the University of North Carolina in 1789, and construction on the campus began in 1793. The university was the first public university in the country to admit students when it opened in 1795. Graduating its first class in 1798, UNC was the only public institution to confer degrees in the 18th century.[2]
The College of William & Mary [edit]

Now a public university, The College of William & Mary in Williamsburg, Virginia was founded by royal charter in 1693, making it the second oldest college or university in the United States, after Harvard University. The college severed formal ties with England after the colonies declared independence, but remained private until financial troubles forced its closure after the Civil War. It re-opened in 1888, but continued financial troubles forced it to accept funding from the Commonwealth of Virginia beginning in 1906. It has been public ever since.[3]

(06-04-2013 10:04 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(06-04-2013 08:28 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 06:48 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  UNC-CH is the flagship school in NC.
UNC-CH is the oldest public university in the country.
UNC-CH is the hardest public school in the state to get admitted into.
NCSU is the land grant university in NC.
NCSU is the second hardest public school in the state to get admitted into.
NCSU is the largest school in the state.
UNC is not UNC-CH. UNC is the system of 17 universities in the state.

The University of Georgia was founded in 1785, 10 years before UNC.

Always a good argument there. Both claim to be first. I believe the difference is one was chartered first the other started classes first. Both states want to be first so both can claim it.

So what your saying is that UNC-CH and UGA are headed to the IVY league?

(06-04-2013 10:04 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(06-04-2013 08:28 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 06:48 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  UNC-CH is the flagship school in NC.
UNC-CH is the oldest public university in the country.
UNC-CH is the hardest public school in the state to get admitted into.
NCSU is the land grant university in NC.
NCSU is the second hardest public school in the state to get admitted into.
NCSU is the largest school in the state.
UNC is not UNC-CH. UNC is the system of 17 universities in the state.

The University of Georgia was founded in 1785, 10 years before UNC.

Always a good argument there. Both claim to be first. I believe the difference is one was chartered first the other started classes first. Both states along with Virginia, want to be first so all can claim it.

William & Mary, founded 1693.
Rutgers University, founded 1766

(06-04-2013 10:10 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(06-04-2013 10:04 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(06-04-2013 08:28 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 06:48 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  UNC-CH is the flagship school in NC.
UNC-CH is the oldest public university in the country.
UNC-CH is the hardest public school in the state to get admitted into.
NCSU is the land grant university in NC.
NCSU is the second hardest public school in the state to get admitted into.
NCSU is the largest school in the state.
UNC is not UNC-CH. UNC is the system of 17 universities in the state.

The University of Georgia was founded in 1785, 10 years before UNC.

Always a good argument there. Both claim to be first. I believe the difference is one was chartered first the other started classes first. Both states want to be first so both can claim it.

So what your saying is that UNC-CH and UGA are headed to the IVY league?

No not at all. What makes you say that? I though Ivy League were those old private schools in the northeast, Harvard, Yale, Colombia, Princeton etc.

(06-04-2013 10:14 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(06-04-2013 10:10 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(06-04-2013 10:04 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(06-04-2013 08:28 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 06:48 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  UNC-CH is the flagship school in NC.
UNC-CH is the oldest public university in the country.
UNC-CH is the hardest public school in the state to get admitted into.
NCSU is the land grant university in NC.
NCSU is the second hardest public school in the state to get admitted into.
NCSU is the largest school in the state.
UNC is not UNC-CH. UNC is the system of 17 universities in the state.

The University of Georgia was founded in 1785, 10 years before UNC.

Always a good argument there. Both claim to be first. I believe the difference is one was chartered first the other started classes first. Both states want to be first so both can claim it.

So what your saying is that UNC-CH and UGA are headed to the IVY league?

No not at all. What makes you say that? I though Ivy League were those old private schools in the northeast, Harvard, Yale, Colombia, Princeton etc.

Not all. Cornell was founded in 1865.

(06-04-2013 10:14 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(06-04-2013 10:04 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(06-04-2013 08:28 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 06:48 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  UNC-CH is the flagship school in NC.
UNC-CH is the oldest public university in the country.
UNC-CH is the hardest public school in the state to get admitted into.
NCSU is the land grant university in NC.
NCSU is the second hardest public school in the state to get admitted into.
NCSU is the largest school in the state.
UNC is not UNC-CH. UNC is the system of 17 universities in the state.

The University of Georgia was founded in 1785, 10 years before UNC.

Always a good argument there. Both claim to be first. I believe the difference is one was chartered first the other started classes first. Both states along with Virginia, want to be first so all can claim it.

William & Mary, founded 1693.
Rutgers University, founded 1766

William and Mary became public later, see my edited post above. Rutgers was a Royal charter and became the University of New Jersey in 1945. Rutgers has never claimed to be the first public university so they are out of the debate. But if they want to, heck have at it. There is room for everybody.