(06-03-2013 12:35 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 11:36 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 11:33 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  I also look at UNC and NCState interchangeably, except in basketball. I guess because I follow football and not much else. I don't know much about the 2 schools though.

tar heel heads are exploding

It was about to until I read his last part about not knowing much about the schools. That saved my life.

there is no state in the union that has more FBS football programs than Ohio's 8. It is absolutely absurd to say that 1 of the 8 gets all the money and benefits and the other 7 should fight over the scraps. There are anti-trust laws for situations just like this.

When Ohio University applied for a trademark for the their own name Ohio State sued them to try to prevent it. Just pause and think about that for a second. The balls it takes to sue another school for trying to copyright their own name, because you want to use it and own it. The BALLS.

search "Jesse Owens" in Google images and you'll see a bunch of pics of the track legend wearing a jersey that says OHIO, not Ohio STATE. Their cheer leading uniforms were the same. Their stadium is Ohio Stadium, their band is know for Script Ohio, their chant is OH-IO!, nothing they say or do involves the word STATE. But then they try to pretend that they are offended when Brady Hoke calls them Ohio.

When you point this out to their fans they say its because OSU represents the entire state of Ohio, not just the school. The entire state? What about the SEVEN other FBS Division 1 programs? Don't they count for something? THE BALLS.

I hate everything Ohio State stands for and am all for a leveling of the playing field.

From Cincinnati's president via twitter

@PrezOno: If Indiana, Michigan, & Illinois can support the development of multiple world class campuses, there is no reason Ohio cannot do the same.

@PrezOno: As presidents we must celebrate each others successes. We must collaborate, not compete; we must place the welfare of the state first.

@PrezOno: Now is the time for Ohio to move beyond a single flagship model to one where there is genuine strategic support for multiple universities

@PrezOno: The great university systems in the US are mature enough to embrace the concept of multiple world class campuses eg Berkeley, UCSF, UCSD...

This is about way more than athletics. It is about research money and economic development in the state.

(06-03-2013 01:19 PM)ucnaticat Wrote:  From Cincinnati's president via twitter

@PrezOno: If Indiana, Michigan, & Illinois can support the development of multiple world class campuses, there is no reason Ohio cannot do the same.

@PrezOno: As presidents we must celebrate each others successes. We must collaborate, not compete; we must place the welfare of the state first.

@PrezOno: Now is the time for Ohio to move beyond a single flagship model to one where there is genuine strategic support for multiple universities

@PrezOno: The great university systems in the US are mature enough to embrace the concept of multiple world class campuses eg Berkeley, UCSF, UCSD...

This is about way more than athletics. It is about research money and economic development in the state.

I get why he's playing this up, but I don't think he's going to get the desired result.

(06-03-2013 11:48 AM)MKPitt Wrote:  Are you guys serious? Unc is one of the elite universities in the world. The two schools aren't even near the same level. Maybe in football there's not a huge difference in level but that's about it. You must be saying this to get a rise out of people. I love Pitt but I would never compare it to UPenn as an academic institution or Penn State as a recent football power.

Are you serious?

Harvard, Oxford, Yale, Princeton, UNC? Nope, that doesn't sound right.

I'd also put Stanford, John Hopkins, UPenn, Columbia, Duke, Georgetown, UChicago and a bunch in this country higher than UNC.

(06-03-2013 01:23 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 01:19 PM)ucnaticat Wrote:  From Cincinnati's president via twitter

@PrezOno: If Indiana, Michigan, & Illinois can support the development of multiple world class campuses, there is no reason Ohio cannot do the same.

@PrezOno: As presidents we must celebrate each others successes. We must collaborate, not compete; we must place the welfare of the state first.

@PrezOno: Now is the time for Ohio to move beyond a single flagship model to one where there is genuine strategic support for multiple universities

@PrezOno: The great university systems in the US are mature enough to embrace the concept of multiple world class campuses eg Berkeley, UCSF, UCSD...

This is about way more than athletics. It is about research money and economic development in the state.

I get why he's playing this up, but I don't think he's going to get the desired result.

To be blunt, I completely agree he won't. But its because Ohio is a state full of lemons running the government out there. They wouldn't know what's better for the whole state if it was spelled out for them with step by step instructions. Ohio will just be another midwest dust bowl if they continue with the same nonsense.

Ohio is bleeding population, lost a ton of seats in the last election. I know it sounds biased but I believe Cincy is one of the few places actually gaining population, maybe since they are working so hard to revitalize the downtown area (also because of the amount of large corporations with jobs there). Time will tell.

In football, there is no difference between UNC and NCSU in the minds of folks in the state or folks nationally.

In basketball, there is obviously a huge difference in perception nationally. In Carolina, I'd say there are more casual UNC fans than NCSU.

Academically, the schools are night and day.

(06-03-2013 01:30 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 11:48 AM)MKPitt Wrote:  Are you guys serious? Unc is one of the elite universities in the world. The two schools aren't even near the same level. Maybe in football there's not a huge difference in level but that's about it. You must be saying this to get a rise out of people. I love Pitt but I would never compare it to UPenn as an academic institution or Penn State as a recent football power.

Are you serious?

Harvard, Oxford, Yale, Princeton, UNC? Nope, that doesn't sound right.

I'd also put Stanford, John Hopkins, UPenn, Columbia, Duke, Georgetown, UChicago and a bunch in this country higher than UNC.

Everybody forgets Cambridge...

On a more serious note you have a point, UNC is not a world beater, although I would say that it is better than NC State. I wouldn't look at someone who went to UNC and wonder if they are so smart, why did they not go to Harvard, it's the best public school in NC by a long way.

(06-03-2013 12:50 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  there is no state in the union that has more FBS football programs than Ohio's 8. It is absolutely absurd to say that 1 of the 8 gets all the money and benefits and the other 7 should fight over the scraps. There are anti-trust laws for situations just like this.

When Ohio University applied for a trademark for the their own name Ohio State sued them to try to prevent it. Just pause and think about that for a second. The balls it takes to sue another school for trying to copyright their own name, because you want to use it and own it. The BALLS.

search "Jesse Owens" in Google images and you'll see a bunch of pics of the track legend wearing a jersey that says OHIO, not Ohio STATE. Their cheer leading uniforms were the same. Their stadium is Ohio Stadium, their band is know for Script Ohio, their chant is OH-IO!, nothing they say or do involves the word STATE. But then they try to pretend that they are offended when Brady Hoke calls them Ohio.

When you point this out to their fans they say its because OSU represents the entire state of Ohio, not just the school. The entire state? What about the SEVEN other FBS Division 1 programs? Don't they count for something? THE BALLS.

I hate everything Ohio State stands for and am all for a leveling of the playing field.

Agreed 100% And OU's just one. How about the public ivy in your state that was named with the likes of Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Virginia, UNC and Texas?

Is this what happens when a public university is founded in a capital city? Is it as ridiculous as "location, location, location?"

(06-03-2013 01:42 PM)ODUgradstudent Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 01:30 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 11:48 AM)MKPitt Wrote:  Are you guys serious? Unc is one of the elite universities in the world. The two schools aren't even near the same level. Maybe in football there's not a huge difference in level but that's about it. You must be saying this to get a rise out of people. I love Pitt but I would never compare it to UPenn as an academic institution or Penn State as a recent football power.

Are you serious?

Harvard, Oxford, Yale, Princeton, UNC? Nope, that doesn't sound right.

I'd also put Stanford, John Hopkins, UPenn, Columbia, Duke, Georgetown, UChicago and a bunch in this country higher than UNC.

Everybody forgets Cambridge...

On a more serious note you have a point, UNC is not a world beater, although I would say that it is better than NC State. I wouldn't look at someone who went to UNC and wonder if they are so smart, why did they not go to Harvard, it's the best public school in NC by a long way.

Of that list, UNC is the only public school. I wouldn't put it on par with any Ivy's or even Duke (that hurt to say), but it is one of the top public universities in the country.

(06-03-2013 01:50 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 01:42 PM)ODUgradstudent Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 01:30 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 11:48 AM)MKPitt Wrote:  Are you guys serious? Unc is one of the elite universities in the world. The two schools aren't even near the same level. Maybe in football there's not a huge difference in level but that's about it. You must be saying this to get a rise out of people. I love Pitt but I would never compare it to UPenn as an academic institution or Penn State as a recent football power.

Are you serious?

Harvard, Oxford, Yale, Princeton, UNC? Nope, that doesn't sound right.

I'd also put Stanford, John Hopkins, UPenn, Columbia, Duke, Georgetown, UChicago and a bunch in this country higher than UNC.

Everybody forgets Cambridge...

On a more serious note you have a point, UNC is not a world beater, although I would say that it is better than NC State. I wouldn't look at someone who went to UNC and wonder if they are so smart, why did they not go to Harvard, it's the best public school in NC by a long way.

Of that list, UNC is the only public school. I wouldn't put it on par with any Ivy's or even Duke (that hurt to say), but it is one of the top public universities in the country.

USNews Top Publics:
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreview...top-public


that list changes of course when you factor in graduate and research work. Oh, and when you start looking outside of the US.

(06-03-2013 01:50 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 01:42 PM)ODUgradstudent Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 01:30 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 11:48 AM)MKPitt Wrote:  Are you guys serious? Unc is one of the elite universities in the world. The two schools aren't even near the same level. Maybe in football there's not a huge difference in level but that's about it. You must be saying this to get a rise out of people. I love Pitt but I would never compare it to UPenn as an academic institution or Penn State as a recent football power.

Are you serious?

Harvard, Oxford, Yale, Princeton, UNC? Nope, that doesn't sound right.

I'd also put Stanford, John Hopkins, UPenn, Columbia, Duke, Georgetown, UChicago and a bunch in this country higher than UNC.

Everybody forgets Cambridge...

On a more serious note you have a point, UNC is not a world beater, although I would say that it is better than NC State. I wouldn't look at someone who went to UNC and wonder if they are so smart, why did they not go to Harvard, it's the best public school in NC by a long way.

Of that list, UNC is the only public school. I wouldn't put it on par with any Ivy's or even Duke (that hurt to say), but it is one of the top public universities in the country.

Oxford and Cambridge are public universities but I take your point which was what I was alluding to when I said that I wouldn't think someone is necessarily less intelligent than an Ivy grad for 'only' going to the top public school in their state, especially one as good as UNC.

(06-03-2013 12:09 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 11:49 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  I always thought UNC and NC State were like a lot of Southern states and Indiana - an ag/engr school and a liberal arts school. And I think that UNC is a better liberal arts school than NC State is an ag/engineering school. But these days, engineering is so much more valuable than liberal arts that I think of them as about equal as far as quality of school.

I don't have anything for or against either school, but UNC fares much better in academic rankings and reputation.

THE: UNC tied for 42nd worldwide, NCSU ranked in the 301-350 range.

ARWU: UNC ranked 41st worldwide, NCSU in 151-200 range.

Oh I know that. That's what I said: UNC is a better liberal arts school than NCSU is an ag/engr school. But I'm an engineering elitist - I think engineering is so much a) harder and b) more valuable to society, that a medium-quality engineering school is just as good as a high quality liberal arts school.

A lot (not all, but a lot) of the fields where UNC is ranked higher than NCSU are fields that, quite frankly, no longer draw society's top talent. UNC has done a good job of switching its focus to more pure science and medical pursuits, so they've avoided the rapid decline that pure liberal arts schools like Miami (OH), W&M, and others have faced. But the gap between engineering and liberal arts as disciplines will only continue to widen. As liberal arts becomes viewed more and more like a fine arts degree by employers, schools with a liberal arts history like UNC, IU, etc will face real challenges in refocusing their priorities without losing their identity.

(06-03-2013 02:08 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 12:09 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 11:49 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  I always thought UNC and NC State were like a lot of Southern states and Indiana - an ag/engr school and a liberal arts school. And I think that UNC is a better liberal arts school than NC State is an ag/engineering school. But these days, engineering is so much more valuable than liberal arts that I think of them as about equal as far as quality of school.

I don't have anything for or against either school, but UNC fares much better in academic rankings and reputation.

THE: UNC tied for 42nd worldwide, NCSU ranked in the 301-350 range.

ARWU: UNC ranked 41st worldwide, NCSU in 151-200 range.

Oh I know that. That's what I said: UNC is a better liberal arts school than NCSU is an ag/engr school. But I'm an engineering elitist - I think engineering is so much a) harder and b) more valuable to society, that a medium-quality engineering school is just as good as a high quality liberal arts school.

A lot (not all, but a lot) of the fields where UNC is ranked higher than NCSU are fields that, quite frankly, no longer draw society's top talent. UNC has done a good job of switching its focus to more pure science and medical pursuits, so they've avoided the rapid decline that pure liberal arts schools like Miami (OH), W&M, and others have faced. But the gap between engineering and liberal arts as disciplines will only continue to widen. As liberal arts becomes viewed more and more like a fine arts degree by employers, schools with a liberal arts history like UNC, IU, etc will face real challenges in refocusing their priorities without losing their identity.

Absolutely. VTech for engineering, W&M/UVA for business, law, etc.

But not all states are set up that way.

(06-03-2013 02:08 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 12:09 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 11:49 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  I always thought UNC and NC State were like a lot of Southern states and Indiana - an ag/engr school and a liberal arts school. And I think that UNC is a better liberal arts school than NC State is an ag/engineering school. But these days, engineering is so much more valuable than liberal arts that I think of them as about equal as far as quality of school.

I don't have anything for or against either school, but UNC fares much better in academic rankings and reputation.

THE: UNC tied for 42nd worldwide, NCSU ranked in the 301-350 range.

ARWU: UNC ranked 41st worldwide, NCSU in 151-200 range.

Oh I know that. That's what I said: UNC is a better liberal arts school than NCSU is an ag/engr school. But I'm an engineering elitist - I think engineering is so much a) harder and b) more valuable to society, that a medium-quality engineering school is just as good as a high quality liberal arts school.

A lot (not all, but a lot) of the fields where UNC is ranked higher than NCSU are fields that, quite frankly, no longer draw society's top talent. UNC has done a good job of switching its focus to more pure science and medical pursuits, so they've avoided the rapid decline that pure liberal arts schools like Miami (OH), W&M, and others have faced. But the gap between engineering and liberal arts as disciplines will only continue to widen. As liberal arts becomes viewed more and more like a fine arts degree by employers, schools with a liberal arts history like UNC, IU, etc will face real challenges in refocusing their priorities without losing their identity.

Engineering is important. Medical and health-related research is even more important in attracting research money, and it's at least as important as engineering in terms of giving marketable skills to graduates.

The schools that are going to slip in these rankings over the next 20-30 years are those that do well in "arts and humanities" but are not so strong in any of the STEM (science/technology/engineering/math) disciplines.

One more point about Ohio State-

Because Ohio State is the only 1 of the 8 FBS schools that plays "big time football" many students and alums from the other 7 schools see nothing wrong with identifying themselves as "Buckeye fans" first because the school they earned their degree from isn't covered the same way by the Sports Media. And they see nothing wrong with this.

The problem is that these people are earning a degree from a quality public university in the state and then spending the rest of their adult lives giving their support, and more importantly, their $$$$, to a school they don't have a degree from and whose alums they are competing with for jobs.

Every weekend in the fall my Facebook feed is full of comments from friends who went to OU, UC, Miami, etc cheering on their Buckeyes. It is nauseating. The monopoly must be broken.

(06-03-2013 10:34 AM)Theodoresdaddy Wrote:  does any state have multiple flagship schools?

Texas and Texas A&M

(06-03-2013 02:02 PM)ODUgradstudent Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 01:50 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 01:42 PM)ODUgradstudent Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 01:30 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 11:48 AM)MKPitt Wrote:  Are you guys serious? Unc is one of the elite universities in the world. The two schools aren't even near the same level. Maybe in football there's not a huge difference in level but that's about it. You must be saying this to get a rise out of people. I love Pitt but I would never compare it to UPenn as an academic institution or Penn State as a recent football power.

Are you serious?

Harvard, Oxford, Yale, Princeton, UNC? Nope, that doesn't sound right.

I'd also put Stanford, John Hopkins, UPenn, Columbia, Duke, Georgetown, UChicago and a bunch in this country higher than UNC.

Everybody forgets Cambridge...

On a more serious note you have a point, UNC is not a world beater, although I would say that it is better than NC State. I wouldn't look at someone who went to UNC and wonder if they are so smart, why did they not go to Harvard, it's the best public school in NC by a long way.

Of that list, UNC is the only public school. I wouldn't put it on par with any Ivy's or even Duke (that hurt to say), but it is one of the top public universities in the country.

Oxford and Cambridge are public universities but I take your point which was what I was alluding to when I said that I wouldn't think someone is necessarily less intelligent than an Ivy grad for 'only' going to the top public school in their state, especially one as good as UNC.

I'm not saying UNC is a bad school but calling them one of the elite universities in the world is just a SLIGHT bit of hyperbole.

(06-03-2013 04:19 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  One more point about Ohio State-

Because Ohio State is the only 1 of the 8 FBS schools that plays "big time football" many students and alums from the other 7 schools see nothing wrong with identifying themselves as "Buckeye fans" first because the school they earned their degree from isn't covered the same way by the Sports Media. And they see nothing wrong with this.

The problem is that these people are earning a degree from a quality public university in the state and then spending the rest of their adult lives giving their support, and more importantly, their $$$$, to a school they don't have a degree from and whose alums they are competing with for jobs.

Every weekend in the fall my Facebook feed is full of comments from friends who went to OU, UC, Miami, etc cheering on their Buckeyes. It is nauseating. The monopoly must be broken.

I get what you are saying, but how is Ohio State responsible for Kent State or Ohio or Toledo students that don't care about MAC football and would rather follow Big 10 football?

To me thats a failure of those schools if they cant instill any pride or loyalty in their students and not the fault of the school they are choosing to follow instead.

University of North Carolina is definitely an elite academic. It is the "Public Ivy" consisting of schools like University of Virginia, University of Michigan-Ann Arbor.