(06-03-2013 11:26 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(06-01-2013 10:08 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-01-2013 09:32 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I know this is going to shock everyone but the lying Paternos publicly swore up and down for years that they were fighting like hell for Pitt to get into the Big Ten if it were to ever expand. Then, after Nebraska, they said, "What could we do, we were outvoted?" Then, after Rutgers and Maryland went to the B1G, Jay Paterno wrote an editorial for the Centre Daily Times (yes those people even wrote for the local newspapers to help control the message up there) in which he said, "Alas, Pitt/Penn State will never happen even though we fought like hell for Pitt to get into the Big Ten for years."

Tell me why on earth Gee would lie about them "abhorring" Pitt?

It doesn't matter because we are thrilled to have landed where we did but it's just example 2,567 of the Paterno's having always been BLATANT and SHAMELESS liars. Anyone who believes anything that comes out of any of their mouths is a gullible rube who gets what he/she deserves.

Why does this surprise you? Almost every school among the old eastern indies cared only about themselves. Why else was there never any give among any of the schools? Nobody was willing to compromise on any point, which is why the old eastern indies are now scattered among the various conferences and many long time eastern rivalries are a thing of the past. Had anyone among the old eastern indies had any consideration for anyone but themselves, we'd have had a strong all sports conference for a long time now and the Big East would never have been anything more than a bunch of mid majors...

Oh please, like Lou Carnesseca, John Thompson Jr, Rick Pitino, Rollie Massimino, John Calhoun and PJ Carlisimo just wouldn't have been able to win any games because the FB schools got their chit together. I know everyone wishes we would just go away and leave the FB schools to be the only focus but thats just not going to happen no matter how many times the former BE FB schools fans call us any variation of "mid-major".

Who really knows? At that time, those schools all drew from certain metropolitan areas, and having the likes of schools like Syracuse, BC, and Pitt did maybe propel some programs like St. John's, Villanova, and Providence. When you're in Philly, just ask anyone from a Big 5 school (that isn't Villanova) and see how they feel about Villanova. Old St. Joe's people make for a fun conversation. Once in the Big East, 'Nova used it (the affiliation and its television deal) to bully and hang over the others. Was Villanova *the* major program before the Big East, or did the Big East make them? They certainly weren't the biggest Philly program. But, that question is answered any number of different ways depending on who's asked.

As to Pitt-PSU, I will never believe one school had the capacity to block Pitt. Bringing it back to Gee's words, he identifies OSU-Cincy being in the same boat with PSU-Pitt and Iowa-ISU. So, are those your culprits, the presidents and/or ADs at those schools?

(06-04-2013 08:04 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 11:26 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(06-01-2013 10:08 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-01-2013 09:32 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I know this is going to shock everyone but the lying Paternos publicly swore up and down for years that they were fighting like hell for Pitt to get into the Big Ten if it were to ever expand. Then, after Nebraska, they said, "What could we do, we were outvoted?" Then, after Rutgers and Maryland went to the B1G, Jay Paterno wrote an editorial for the Centre Daily Times (yes those people even wrote for the local newspapers to help control the message up there) in which he said, "Alas, Pitt/Penn State will never happen even though we fought like hell for Pitt to get into the Big Ten for years."

Tell me why on earth Gee would lie about them "abhorring" Pitt?

It doesn't matter because we are thrilled to have landed where we did but it's just example 2,567 of the Paterno's having always been BLATANT and SHAMELESS liars. Anyone who believes anything that comes out of any of their mouths is a gullible rube who gets what he/she deserves.

Why does this surprise you? Almost every school among the old eastern indies cared only about themselves. Why else was there never any give among any of the schools? Nobody was willing to compromise on any point, which is why the old eastern indies are now scattered among the various conferences and many long time eastern rivalries are a thing of the past. Had anyone among the old eastern indies had any consideration for anyone but themselves, we'd have had a strong all sports conference for a long time now and the Big East would never have been anything more than a bunch of mid majors...

Oh please, like Lou Carnesseca, John Thompson Jr, Rick Pitino, Rollie Massimino, John Calhoun and PJ Carlisimo just wouldn't have been able to win any games because the FB schools got their chit together. I know everyone wishes we would just go away and leave the FB schools to be the only focus but thats just not going to happen no matter how many times the former BE FB schools fans call us any variation of "mid-major".

Who really knows? At that time, those schools all drew from certain metropolitan areas, and having the likes of schools like Syracuse, BC, and Pitt did maybe propel some programs like St. John's, Villanova, and Providence. When you're in Philly, just ask anyone from a Big 5 school (that isn't Villanova) and see how they feel about Villanova. Old St. Joe's people make for a fun conversation. Once in the Big East, 'Nova used it (the affiliation and its television deal) to bully and hang over the others. Was Villanova *the* major program before the Big East, or did the Big East make them? They certainly weren't the biggest Philly program. But, that question is answered any number of different ways depending on who's asked.

As to Pitt-PSU, I will never believe one school had the capacity to block Pitt. Bringing it back to Gee's words, he identifies OSU-Cincy being in the same boat with PSU-Pitt and Iowa-ISU. So, are those your culprits, the presidents and/or ADs at those schools?

I'm sorry but what are you talking about? St. John's was a power before the Big East came around. Also, BC, Pitt and Cuse weren't powerhouses when the Big East was formed. Jimmy B was only at Cuse for two seasons when the Big East was formed and he has almost half of Cuse's all time wins. St. John's and Georgetown were the powers at that time.

BTW don't get me wrong Cuse was a good team then, but they weren't considered a blue blood back then. The Pearl was pretty awesome.

(06-04-2013 11:03 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(06-04-2013 08:04 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 11:26 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(06-01-2013 10:08 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-01-2013 09:32 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I know this is going to shock everyone but the lying Paternos publicly swore up and down for years that they were fighting like hell for Pitt to get into the Big Ten if it were to ever expand. Then, after Nebraska, they said, "What could we do, we were outvoted?" Then, after Rutgers and Maryland went to the B1G, Jay Paterno wrote an editorial for the Centre Daily Times (yes those people even wrote for the local newspapers to help control the message up there) in which he said, "Alas, Pitt/Penn State will never happen even though we fought like hell for Pitt to get into the Big Ten for years."

Tell me why on earth Gee would lie about them "abhorring" Pitt?

It doesn't matter because we are thrilled to have landed where we did but it's just example 2,567 of the Paterno's having always been BLATANT and SHAMELESS liars. Anyone who believes anything that comes out of any of their mouths is a gullible rube who gets what he/she deserves.

Why does this surprise you? Almost every school among the old eastern indies cared only about themselves. Why else was there never any give among any of the schools? Nobody was willing to compromise on any point, which is why the old eastern indies are now scattered among the various conferences and many long time eastern rivalries are a thing of the past. Had anyone among the old eastern indies had any consideration for anyone but themselves, we'd have had a strong all sports conference for a long time now and the Big East would never have been anything more than a bunch of mid majors...

Oh please, like Lou Carnesseca, John Thompson Jr, Rick Pitino, Rollie Massimino, John Calhoun and PJ Carlisimo just wouldn't have been able to win any games because the FB schools got their chit together. I know everyone wishes we would just go away and leave the FB schools to be the only focus but thats just not going to happen no matter how many times the former BE FB schools fans call us any variation of "mid-major".

Who really knows? At that time, those schools all drew from certain metropolitan areas, and having the likes of schools like Syracuse, BC, and Pitt did maybe propel some programs like St. John's, Villanova, and Providence. When you're in Philly, just ask anyone from a Big 5 school (that isn't Villanova) and see how they feel about Villanova. Old St. Joe's people make for a fun conversation. Once in the Big East, 'Nova used it (the affiliation and its television deal) to bully and hang over the others. Was Villanova *the* major program before the Big East, or did the Big East make them? They certainly weren't the biggest Philly program. But, that question is answered any number of different ways depending on who's asked.

As to Pitt-PSU, I will never believe one school had the capacity to block Pitt. Bringing it back to Gee's words, he identifies OSU-Cincy being in the same boat with PSU-Pitt and Iowa-ISU. So, are those your culprits, the presidents and/or ADs at those schools?

I'm sorry but what are you talking about? St. John's was a power before the Big East came around. Also, BC, Pitt and Cuse weren't powerhouses when the Big East was formed. Jimmy B was only at Cuse for two seasons when the Big East was formed and he has almost half of Cuse's all time wins. St. John's and Georgetown were the powers at that time.

BTW don't get me wrong Cuse was a good team then, but they weren't considered a blue blood back then. The Pearl was pretty awesome.

I look at the Big East formation as being sort of like a "reset" button for program strength in the east. You're right about St. John's...but look at the "draft effect" it had on virtually every program in the Big East up until the changes in 2003. Programs like Georgetown, Seton Hall, Pittsburgh, and BC which really didn't have much of a legacy, put themselves on the map. They all gained from being with each other, and those who were "left out" (either turned away in some fashion or balked, like St. Joe's and Holy Cross respectively) within the footprint fell into some form of obscurity.

Relevance was relative, especially in the east. That's where I'm coming from. I think having two NY schools did wonders for both 'Cuse and St. John's. But we don't know what would have happened if the two never crossed paths in the Big East. I don't think football had any bearing on that. Television on the other hand...

(06-04-2013 11:03 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  I'm sorry but what are you talking about? St. John's was a power before the Big East came around. Also, BC, Pitt and Cuse weren't powerhouses when the Big East was formed. Jimmy B was only at Cuse for two seasons when the Big East was formed and he has almost half of Cuse's all time wins. St. John's and Georgetown were the powers at that time.

BTW don't get me wrong Cuse was a good team then, but they weren't considered a blue blood back then. The Pearl was pretty awesome.

You might want to research that one again. St. John's was clearly the best at the point in time the league was formed, with 4 NIT championships and 2 runner-ups in addition to 12 NCAA appearances with 1 Elite 8 and 1 Final Four. But Georgetown certainly was not the second best at that time. The number two spot would have been between Providence and Syracuse.

The Hoyas were not impactful in the NIT and had only 4 NCAA appearances total at that point a Final Four back in 1943 when only 8 teams played and the latter three tourneys were all first round exits in the 70s.

Providence had twice as many NCAA appearances, a Final Four in the 70s and an Elite 8 in the 60s. They also had 1 NIT championship and two runner-ups. Syracuse had 9 NCAA appearances with 2 Elite 8s and a Final Four in the 70s.

Cheers,
Neil