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OOC Games During the MM Era
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Potomac Offline
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Post: #1
OOC Games During the MM Era
These past few years, I've seen fans complaining about our OOC opponents as one of the main reasons why they don't feel like attending games anymore. I created a list of all of the OOC opponents of the MM era (1999-Present) to show that the scheduling of the recent years is not exactly anything new.
I then looked up the attendance ranking of each OOC opponent each year to show their general "relevance" in the I-AA football world that season. I know you can argue that attendance isn't everything, but it's hard to argue that a top attended team doesn't lead to an attractive OOC opponent, and the opposite is equally applicable.

What I see is that we've been scheduling an average rank of 64th for our I-AA opponents since 1999. That's about as middle of the pack scheduling philosophy as you can get. The truth is, these opponents come with the I-AA/FCS classification.
The CAA is about as brutal of a conference schedule as you can get. Why would we schedule losses OOC too?

1999 – South Florida (I-AA at the time)
2000 – Lock Haven (D2), Liberty (55th)
2001 – Elon (58th)
2002 – Hampton (21st), Florida Atlantic (I-AA at the time) (45th)
2003 – Liberty (67th), Charleston Southern (113th)
2004 – Lock Haven (D2), VMI (75th)
2005 – Lock Haven (D2), Delaware State (101st)
2006 – Bloomsburg (D2)
2007 – VMI (65th), Coastal Carolina (55th)
2008 – North Carolina Central (54th), Appalachian State (1st)
2009 – VMI (65th)
2010 – Morehead State (100th), Liberty (12th)
2011 – Central Connecticut State (107th)
2012 – St. Francis (122nd), Alcorn State (27th)
2013 – Central Connecticut State, St. Francis

Scheduled Thus Far:
2014 – St. Francis, Liberty
2015 – Morehead State, Lehigh
2016 – Morehead State, Central Connecticut State

Ranking based on attendance that season:
Appalachian State (2008)
Liberty (2010)
Hampton (2002)
Alcorn State (2012)
Florida Atlantic (2002)
North Carolina Central (2008)
Tie - Liberty (2000), Coastal Carolina (2007)
Elon (2001)
Tie – VMI (2007, 2009)
Liberty (2003)
VMI (2004)
Morehead State (2010)
Delaware State (2005)
Central Connecticut State (2010)
Charleston Southern (2003)
St. Francis (2012)
05-29-2013 09:06 PM
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Hart Foundation Offline
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Post: #2
RE: OOC Games During the MM Era
So you have summarized the schedules that Jeff Bourne has put together in his career as JMU's AD.
It took a fan uprising to get Bourne to end the idiotic "strategy" of scheduling Division II games in the mid 2000's.
FYI, 64th is not middle of the pack for FCS teams granting 63 scholarships. Check out how many FCS teams do not fully fund their program and then you will see that Bourne likes to rack up garbage wins that do not prepare the team or the program for growth.

Your research looks to be pretty extensive and time consuming, but it does nothing to sooth the pain of acknowledging JMU is stuck with the Poor, the Weak, and the Bourne scheduling "strategy."
The OOC games are not just a complete wienie vision;
The OOC games are not just an utter wienie vision;
but the OOC games are a complete AND utter wienie vision.
05-29-2013 09:57 PM
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Longhorn Offline
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RE: OOC Games During the MM Era
(05-29-2013 09:57 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  So you have summarized the schedules that Jeff Bourne has put together in his career as JMU's AD.
It took a fan uprising to get Bourne to end the idiotic "strategy" of scheduling Division II games in the mid 2000's.
FYI, 64th is not middle of the pack for FCS teams granting 63 scholarships. Check out how many FCS teams do not fully fund their program and then you will see that Bourne likes to rack up garbage wins that do not prepare the team or the program for growth.

Your research looks to be pretty extensive and time consuming, but it does nothing to sooth the pain of acknowledging JMU is stuck with the Poor, the Weak, and the Bourne scheduling "strategy."
The OOC games are not just a complete wienie vision;
The OOC games are not just an utter wienie vision;
but the OOC games are a complete AND utter wienie vision.

03-zzz
05-29-2013 10:02 PM
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JMUNation Offline
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RE: OOC Games During the MM Era
HF:

MM has a lot to say about the schedule. He has been allowed to have veto power. Bourne schedules with MMs input. If it were me, I would not listen to MM. I would schedule as I saw fit and tell my coach to get over it. Bourne doesn't do things that way.

You can be critical of Bourne for not being more assertive with MM but you must also be critical of MM for playing a weak out of conference schedule.

In the defense of both, the CAA has been brutal most years. The only easy games usually come for the OOC schedule. MM feels like the magic number to keep his job is 7 wins each year. That attitude why JMUs OOC scheduling is pretty boring most years under MM. I believe at least half of his seasons have been 5-6, 6-6 or 6-5 seasons. He was a combined 25-4 in the 2004 and 2008 seasons. Those two years really helped his overall winning percentage. Take those two seasons out, plus his 2-9 season and I bet MM is very close to being a .500 coach. I am too lazy to research all this so I am going by memory. Feel free to do the work and prove me wrong.
(This post was last modified: 06-01-2013 08:14 AM by JMUNation.)
05-29-2013 10:57 PM
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AllForDukes Offline
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Post: #5
RE: OOC Games During the MM Era
Let's just be critical of everybody. By the way, I saw a bus driver swerve about a foot on campus the other day. We should just fire the low life.
05-30-2013 05:53 AM
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Potomac Offline
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OOC Games During the MM Era
My main take away point is this: we've been supporting in increasing fashion since 1999 and these lackluster ooc opponents have always been there outside of app state and liberty in maybe one game. No one is saying Hampton was a must see, despite being 21st at the time.
Why jump ship now when you've been enjoying the DUKES, not who they play. Even Georgia plays savannah state.
05-30-2013 06:04 AM
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Longhorn Offline
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Post: #7
RE: OOC Games During the MM Era
(05-30-2013 06:04 AM)Potomac Wrote:  My main take away point is this: we've been supporting in increasing fashion since 1999 and these lackluster ooc opponents have always been there outside of app state and liberty in maybe one game. No one is saying Hampton was a must see, despite being 21st at the time.
Why jump ship now when you've been enjoying the DUKES, not who they play. Even Georgia plays savannah state.

Exactly. And say, didn't Elon beat us when we played them? 04-jawdrop
05-30-2013 06:46 AM
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Potomac Offline
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OOC Games During the MM Era
(05-30-2013 06:46 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(05-30-2013 06:04 AM)Potomac Wrote:  My main take away point is this: we've been supporting in increasing fashion since 1999 and these lackluster ooc opponents have always been there outside of app state and liberty in maybe one game. No one is saying Hampton was a must see, despite being 21st at the time.
Why jump ship now when you've been enjoying the DUKES, not who they play. Even Georgia plays savannah state.

Exactly. And say, didn't Elon beat us when we played them? 04-jawdrop

No, I looked it up the other day. We're 2-0 vs elon. 1998 and 2001, both home wins for the dukes.
05-30-2013 07:36 AM
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JMad03 Offline
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Post: #9
RE: OOC Games During the MM Era
(05-29-2013 09:06 PM)Potomac Wrote:  2004 – Lock Haven (D2), VMI (75th)

Pretty good end of the season result with one of our worst OOC opponent slate.

Edit: This thread may be more accurately named "HOME OOC games". Don't know how fair it is to not include the FBS teams we've played in those years, as well as some tough away games, like @ Liberty a few years ago, who were ranked at the time.
(This post was last modified: 05-30-2013 08:27 AM by JMad03.)
05-30-2013 08:22 AM
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QuinDuke Offline
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RE: OOC Games During the MM Era
(05-29-2013 10:57 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  HF:

MM has a lot to say about the schedule. He has been allowed to have veto power. Bourne schedules with MMs input. If it were me, I would not listen to MM. I would schedule as I saw fit and tell me coach to get over it. Bourne doesn't do things that way.

You can be critical of Bourne for not being more assertive with MM but you must also be critical of MM for playing a weak out of conference schedule.

In the defense of both, the CAA has been brutal most years. The only easy games usually come for the OOC schedule. MM feels like the magic number to keep his job is 7 wins each year. That attitude why JMUs OOC scheduling is pretty boring most years under MM. I believe at least half of his seasons have been 5-6, 6-6 or 6-5 seasons. He was a combined 25-4 in the 2004 and 2008 seasons. Those two years really helped his overall winning percentage. Take those two seasons out, plus his 2-9 season and I bet MM is very close to being a .500 coach. I am too lazy to research all this so I am going by memory. Feel free to do the work and prove me wrong.

I don't know if you can call it lazy or what, but the facts sure don't support it.

Here's the wikipedia page for JMU's football results under Matthews: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Madis...y_Matthews

Since the two-year stretch in '01'-02 where the team finished 2-9 and 5-7, JMU has never finished below .500. In 14 seasons with Matthews, JMU has finished at .500 or worse three times; the Dukes have finished 6-5 or worse 5 times.

Matthews is 103-65 overall as a head coach. If you take out the two excellent seasons, '04 and '08 (Mickey lucked into Landers), and also take out '01's 2-9 record (say that Wood's recruits peaked after he left, but Mickey's hadn't blossomed yet), then Mickey is 76-52 overall. That's a 0.594% winning percentage, nowhere close to .500. If you took my two best years and my one worst year out of my life-long tally, I hope I rate that highly.

I think there are all sorts of fair arguments to be made about whether JMU gets the results it should expect given its investment in football. I also think it's fair to argue that JMU would benefit from a stronger out of conference schedule. But the argument that JMU schedules weakly and that Mickey Matthews still gets average results is not born out by the facts.
05-30-2013 08:55 AM
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Duke Dawg Offline
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Post: #11
RE: OOC Games During the MM Era
our fan base is earning its reputation of being complainers, whiners, bitching about everything, etc.

scheduling, realignment, message board format, bench pressing, contract extensions, twitter rumors. That's just in the last few weeks.
05-30-2013 09:02 AM
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All Dukes_All Day Offline
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RE: OOC Games During the MM Era
Say what you want about Mickey and the scheduling, but I can count on one hand the number of non-FBS games in the last 10 seasons that we didn't have at least a decent chance of winning in the fourth quarter.

The list:
@Villanova 2012
@ New Hampshire 2011
@ William and Mary 2009
H Villanova 2009

I can't think of any other games where the Dukes didn't have a shot to win or tie late in the game.
05-30-2013 09:18 AM
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Longhorn Offline
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RE: OOC Games During the MM Era
(05-30-2013 07:36 AM)Potomac Wrote:  
(05-30-2013 06:46 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  Exactly. And say, didn't Elon beat us when we played them? 04-jawdrop

No, I looked it up the other day. We're 2-0 vs elon. 1998 and 2001, both home wins for the dukes.

Thanks! 04-bow
05-30-2013 11:59 AM
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Yesolitis Offline
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RE: OOC Games During the MM Era
DD - I'd like to blame that at least partially on the DC effect. No where in the US are there more whiners, complainers, bitching and moaning than in the "DMV" region. Maybe it's traffic, maybe it's the wealth, maybe it's the immigrants. It's probably because 90% of us came from somewhere else that doesn't suck so bad. <----------See, I just became part of the problem. It's so damn infectious!!!
05-30-2013 02:18 PM
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PiKappDuke Offline
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RE: OOC Games During the MM Era
(05-30-2013 02:18 PM)Yesolitis Wrote:  DD - I'd like to blame that at least partially on the DC effect. No where in the US are there more whiners, complainers, bitching and moaning than in the "DMV" region. Maybe it's traffic, maybe it's the wealth, maybe it's the immigrants. It's probably because 90% of us came from somewhere else that doesn't suck so bad. <----------See, I just became part of the problem. It's so damn infectious!!!

This applies to what we true Virginians call "occupied Virginia." Tha is everything north of Fredericksburg and now sadly nw to include the Winchester area. NOVA.....please keep it out of the true state! ha!
05-30-2013 03:46 PM
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BDKJMU Offline
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RE: OOC Games During the MM Era
(05-29-2013 10:57 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  HF:

MM has a lot to say about the schedule. He has been allowed to have veto power. Bourne schedules with MMs input. If it were me, I would not listen to MM. I would schedule as I saw fit and tell me coach to get over it. Bourne doesn't do things that way.

You can be critical of Bourne for not being more assertive with MM but you must also be critical of MM for playing a weak out of conference schedule.

In the defense of both, the CAA has been brutal most years. The only easy games usually come for the OOC schedule. MM feels like the magic number to keep his job is 7 wins each year. That attitude why JMUs OOC scheduling is pretty boring most years under MM. I believe at least half of his seasons have been 5-6, 6-6 or 6-5 seasons. He was a combined 25-4 in the 2004 and 2008 seasons. Those two years really helped his overall winning percentage. Take those two seasons out, plus his 2-9 season and I bet MM is very close to being a .500 coach. I am too lazy to research all this so I am going by memory. Feel free to do the work and prove me wrong.

You aren't even close. 14 regular seasons:
99' 8-3
00' 7-4
01' 2-9
02' 5-7
03' 6-6
04' 9-2
05' 7-4
06' 9-2
07' 8-3
08' 10-1
09' 6-5
10' 6-5

11' 7-4
12' 7-4

You claimed at least half his seasons were 5-6, 6-6, or 6-5, when in fact only 3 of his 14 equaled that. 4 if you include the 5-7 season.

Apparently you shouldn't rely going off of your memory too much. As far as too lazy to research, it would take all of about a minute or 2:
http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa.../index.php
05-31-2013 12:02 AM
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RE: OOC Games During the MM Era
Also, factor in playoff games, so add 7 wins and 5 losses.
05-31-2013 11:43 AM
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BDKJMU Offline
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RE: OOC Games During the MM Era
(05-31-2013 11:43 AM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  Also, factor in playoff games, so add 7 wins and 5 losses.

There are zero 7-5 seasons.
05-31-2013 11:47 AM
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All Dukes_All Day Offline
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RE: OOC Games During the MM Era
(05-31-2013 11:47 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  
(05-31-2013 11:43 AM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  Also, factor in playoff games, so add 7 wins and 5 losses.

There are zero 7-5 seasons.

No, you misunderstand. Mickey has had 12 playoff games and won 7 of them. Playoff games should affect the way we look at his overall record/accomplishments.
05-31-2013 12:53 PM
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BleedingPurple Offline
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RE: OOC Games During the MM Era
Am I wrong, two seasons made up all of his post season victories except for the EKU win? Not sure what this means, but I did not realize this. I guess its sort of unusual, if nothing else.
05-31-2013 08:02 PM
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