(05-30-2013 07:44 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  Without going back through six pages, of course Woodson and Pellom are better than Black, they're two players with 10 fouls, two circulatory systems, etc.

But we could've easily had Pellom and Black, Woodson and Black. I think either configuration is quite possibly better than Pellom and Woodson (two unknown commodities). That's not saying anything negative about Pellom or Woodson, though. Both are huge late game snags that should keep this team's momentum very high going into next season. I'm psyched.

I'm not so sure we would have easily had all three. Don't know any of these guys, but it seems to me that some of their reasoning in coming to Memphis was that with Tarik gone, there was a hole to fill and minutes to be had. I can see one of them maybe coming here with Tarik, but I can't buy all three.

(05-30-2013 07:44 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  Without going back through six pages, of course Woodson and Pellom are better than Black, they're two players with 10 fouls, two circulatory systems, etc.

But we could've easily had Pellom and Black, Woodson and Black. I think either configuration is quite possibly better than Pellom and Woodson (two unknown commodities). That's not saying anything negative about Pellom or Woodson, though. Both are huge late game snags that should keep this team's momentum very high going into next season. I'm psyched.

Maybe, but I doubt it. If Black returns, we have a senior who can only play the 5 to compete with for time, and we have a pile of options at the 4. I think the big attraction for Pellom was knowing that we didn't have a single true 5 on our roster. Woodson looks at the roster and sees his only competition as Pellom; who is a bit undersized.

Both players have 25-30 minutes per game staring them right in the face. If Black is around you figure maybe 10 minutes are available.

Are you saying Woodson is staring at 25-30 mpg or are you referring to someone else?

(05-30-2013 07:44 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  Without going back through six pages, of course Woodson and Pellom are better than Black, they're two players with 10 fouls, two circulatory systems, etc.

But we could've easily had Pellom and Black, Woodson and Black. I think either configuration is quite possibly better than Pellom and Woodson (two unknown commodities). That's not saying anything negative about Pellom or Woodson, though. Both are huge late game snags that should keep this team's momentum very high going into next season. I'm psyched.

Great mind.

(05-30-2013 07:58 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(05-30-2013 07:44 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  Without going back through six pages, of course Woodson and Pellom are better than Black, they're two players with 10 fouls, two circulatory systems, etc.

But we could've easily had Pellom and Black, Woodson and Black. I think either configuration is quite possibly better than Pellom and Woodson (two unknown commodities). That's not saying anything negative about Pellom or Woodson, though. Both are huge late game snags that should keep this team's momentum very high going into next season. I'm psyched.

Maybe, but I doubt it. If Black returns, we have a senior who can only play the 5 to compete with for time, and we have a pile of options at the 4. I think the big attraction for Pellom was knowing that we didn't have a single true 5 on our roster. Woodson looks at the roster and sees his only competition as Pellom; who is a bit undersized.

Both players have 25-30 minutes per game staring them right in the face. If Black is around you figure maybe 10 minutes are available.

I'm not sure that the 5 spot rotation concerned Pellom at all. He'll spend the majority of his minutes at the four, and if Black was here next season its possible that Pellom and Black could start at the 4 and 5 respectively. Black staying probably means no Woodson, but Dj and Ferro leaving is what brought Pellom, IMO.

(05-30-2013 07:50 PM)TrUmEm Wrote:  

(05-30-2013 07:44 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  Without going back through six pages, of course Woodson and Pellom are better than Black, they're two players with 10 fouls, two circulatory systems, etc.

But we could've easily had Pellom and Black, Woodson and Black. I think either configuration is quite possibly better than Pellom and Woodson (two unknown commodities). That's not saying anything negative about Pellom or Woodson, though. Both are huge late game snags that should keep this team's momentum very high going into next season. I'm psyched.

I'm not so sure we would have easily had all three. Don't know any of these guys, but it seems to me that some of their reasoning in coming to Memphis was that with Tarik gone, there was a hole to fill and minutes to be had. I can see one of them maybe coming here with Tarik, but I can't buy all three.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I don't think we could've landed all three. But Black staying doesn't necessarily mean we miss on Pellom, or even Woodson. We just don't land both.

I'm happier with getting Woodson honestly. Tarik could have been great. But we are pretty deep in the front court now. We could even put Iverson there if we play small or if the other team is/plays small.

We have 4 true front court players and Iverson can fill in at the 4 in certain situations.

Let's just think about it this way.

As of now and this is my opinion but I'm 99.9% sure this will become a fact.

Shaq, Pellom, Nichols, Woodson>>>Simpson, Hall, Black, Shaq

Our Front court should not be the liability it was 85% of last season.

(05-30-2013 11:17 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(05-30-2013 07:58 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(05-30-2013 07:44 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  Without going back through six pages, of course Woodson and Pellom are better than Black, they're two players with 10 fouls, two circulatory systems, etc.

But we could've easily had Pellom and Black, Woodson and Black. I think either configuration is quite possibly better than Pellom and Woodson (two unknown commodities). That's not saying anything negative about Pellom or Woodson, though. Both are huge late game snags that should keep this team's momentum very high going into next season. I'm psyched.

Maybe, but I doubt it. If Black returns, we have a senior who can only play the 5 to compete with for time, and we have a pile of options at the 4. I think the big attraction for Pellom was knowing that we didn't have a single true 5 on our roster. Woodson looks at the roster and sees his only competition as Pellom; who is a bit undersized.

Both players have 25-30 minutes per game staring them right in the face. If Black is around you figure maybe 10 minutes are available.

I'm not sure that the 5 spot rotation concerned Pellom at all. He'll spend the majority of his minutes at the four, and if Black was here next season its possible that Pellom and Black could start at the 4 and 5 respectively. Black staying probably means no Woodson, but Dj and Ferro leaving is what brought Pellom, IMO.

Quote:I'm not sure that the 5 spot rotation concerned Pellom at all

Then you obviously don't have a clue what you are talking about. We don't have a single center on our roster. We have 3 players with very good credentials (Shaq, Nichols, Iverson) that will play at the 4. Pellom played at center for GW.

As far as Woodson goes; AGAIN, we have no center on the roster with the exception of Pellom who is undersized. Shaq is a natural 4. Woodson isn't here because he thinks he can fight and beat out 4 players for time at power forward. He is here because he sees no true center on the roster and a ton of playing time that is there for the taking.

If Shaq plays 10-15 minutes at the 5; someone else is going to have to play 25-30 minutes at that position. If Nichols, Shaq and Iverson play 35 minutes at the 4; well, you get the picture don't you?

Of course you don't. The dullard doesn't either.

Wow.

By that logic Stan was available the last two years at the 5 yet the likes of Spoon and AT were asked to play out of position, not to mention DJ.

Yet somehow you are confident a kid you have NEVER seen play ( who averaged 6 and 5 in high school and may be as heavy as 300 pounds) is just gonna walk in as as a frosh and average MORE minutes than Shaq, Joe, Tarik, Adonis or Coleman played in their first year?

Mmmmkay.

(05-31-2013 07:43 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Wow.

By that logic Stan was available the last two years at the 5 yet the likes of Spoon and AT were asked to play out of position, not to mention DJ.

Yet somehow you are confident a kid you have NEVER seen play ( who averaged 6 and 5 in high school and may be as heavy as 300 pounds) is just gonna walk in as as a frosh and average MORE minutes than Shaq, Joe, Tarik, Adonis or Coleman played in their first year?

Mmmmkay.

That is your dumb assumption. I never said that.

(05-31-2013 08:21 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(05-31-2013 07:43 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Wow.

By that logic Stan was available the last two years at the 5 yet the likes of Spoon and AT were asked to play out of position, not to mention DJ.

Yet somehow you are confident a kid you have NEVER seen play ( who averaged 6 and 5 in high school and may be as heavy as 300 pounds) is just gonna walk in as as a frosh and average MORE minutes than Shaq, Joe, Tarik, Adonis or Coleman played in their first year?

Mmmmkay.

That is your dumb assumption. I never said that.

To some extent it's because you aren't clear in what you are saying.

I asked you point blank "Are you saying Woodson is staring at 25-30 mpg or are you referring to someone else?" based on the statement of yours:

(05-31-2013 08:21 AM)Stammers Wrote:  Woodson looks at the roster and sees his only competition as Pellom; who is a bit undersized. Both players have 25-30 minutes per game staring them right in the face.

You later mentioned the Woodson at center in this statement:

(05-31-2013 08:21 AM)Stammers Wrote:  We don't have a single center on our roster.We have 3 players with very good credentials (Shaq, Nichols, Iverson) that will play at the 4. Pellom played at center for GW.

As far as Woodson goes; AGAIN, we have no center on the roster with the exception of Pellom who is undersized. Shaq is a natural 4. Woodson isn't here because he thinks he can fight and beat out 4 players for time at power forward. He is here because he sees no true center on the roster and a ton of playing time that is there for the taking.

If Shaq plays 10-15 minutes at the 5; someone else is going to have to play 25-30 minutes at that position.

(05-31-2013 09:06 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(05-31-2013 08:21 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(05-31-2013 07:43 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Wow.

By that logic Stan was available the last two years at the 5 yet the likes of Spoon and AT were asked to play out of position, not to mention DJ.

Yet somehow you are confident a kid you have NEVER seen play ( who averaged 6 and 5 in high school and may be as heavy as 300 pounds) is just gonna walk in as as a frosh and average MORE minutes than Shaq, Joe, Tarik, Adonis or Coleman played in their first year?

Mmmmkay.

That is your dumb assumption. I never said that.

To some extent it's because you aren't clear in what you are saying.

I asked you point blank "Are you saying Woodson is staring at 25-30 mpg or are you referring to someone else?" based on the statement of yours:

(05-31-2013 08:21 AM)Stammers Wrote:  Woodson looks at the roster and sees his only competition as Pellom; who is a bit undersized. Both players have 25-30 minutes per game staring them right in the face.

You later mentioned the Woodson at center in this statement:

(05-31-2013 08:21 AM)Stammers Wrote:  We don't have a single center on our roster.We have 3 players with very good credentials (Shaq, Nichols, Iverson) that will play at the 4. Pellom played at center for GW.

As far as Woodson goes; AGAIN, we have no center on the roster with the exception of Pellom who is undersized. Shaq is a natural 4. Woodson isn't here because he thinks he can fight and beat out 4 players for time at power forward. He is here because he sees no true center on the roster and a ton of playing time that is there for the taking.

If Shaq plays 10-15 minutes at the 5; someone else is going to have to play 25-30 minutes at that position.

You can't read. Not my problem.

(05-31-2013 09:09 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(05-31-2013 09:06 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(05-31-2013 08:21 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(05-31-2013 07:43 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Wow.

By that logic Stan was available the last two years at the 5 yet the likes of Spoon and AT were asked to play out of position, not to mention DJ.

Yet somehow you are confident a kid you have NEVER seen play ( who averaged 6 and 5 in high school and may be as heavy as 300 pounds) is just gonna walk in as as a frosh and average MORE minutes than Shaq, Joe, Tarik, Adonis or Coleman played in their first year?

Mmmmkay.

That is your dumb assumption. I never said that.

To some extent it's because you aren't clear in what you are saying.

I asked you point blank "Are you saying Woodson is staring at 25-30 mpg or are you referring to someone else?" based on the statement of yours:

(05-31-2013 08:21 AM)Stammers Wrote:  Woodson looks at the roster and sees his only competition as Pellom; who is a bit undersized. Both players have 25-30 minutes per game staring them right in the face.

You later mentioned the Woodson at center in this statement:

(05-31-2013 08:21 AM)Stammers Wrote:  We don't have a single center on our roster.We have 3 players with very good credentials (Shaq, Nichols, Iverson) that will play at the 4. Pellom played at center for GW.

As far as Woodson goes; AGAIN, we have no center on the roster with the exception of Pellom who is undersized. Shaq is a natural 4. Woodson isn't here because he thinks he can fight and beat out 4 players for time at power forward. He is here because he sees no true center on the roster and a ton of playing time that is there for the taking.

If Shaq plays 10-15 minutes at the 5; someone else is going to have to play 25-30 minutes at that position.

You can't read. Not my problem.

NO, I can read just fine. Maybe your written english doesn't translate from french as well as you think, but from what this 'merican reads, it states that Woodson has "25-30" minutes staring him in the face because "he is the only true center on the roster."

I'm saying it is unfair to expect Woodson to play any more than 8-10 mpg and average more than about 4 pts and 3 rebs a game.

Why is that unfair? Don't many freshmen do it?

(05-31-2013 09:17 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(05-31-2013 09:09 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(05-31-2013 09:06 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(05-31-2013 08:21 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(05-31-2013 07:43 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Wow.

By that logic Stan was available the last two years at the 5 yet the likes of Spoon and AT were asked to play out of position, not to mention DJ.

Yet somehow you are confident a kid you have NEVER seen play ( who averaged 6 and 5 in high school and may be as heavy as 300 pounds) is just gonna walk in as as a frosh and average MORE minutes than Shaq, Joe, Tarik, Adonis or Coleman played in their first year?

Mmmmkay.

That is your dumb assumption. I never said that.

To some extent it's because you aren't clear in what you are saying.

I asked you point blank "Are you saying Woodson is staring at 25-30 mpg or are you referring to someone else?" based on the statement of yours:

(05-31-2013 08:21 AM)Stammers Wrote:  Woodson looks at the roster and sees his only competition as Pellom; who is a bit undersized. Both players have 25-30 minutes per game staring them right in the face.

You later mentioned the Woodson at center in this statement:

(05-31-2013 08:21 AM)Stammers Wrote:  We don't have a single center on our roster.We have 3 players with very good credentials (Shaq, Nichols, Iverson) that will play at the 4. Pellom played at center for GW.

As far as Woodson goes; AGAIN, we have no center on the roster with the exception of Pellom who is undersized. Shaq is a natural 4. Woodson isn't here because he thinks he can fight and beat out 4 players for time at power forward. He is here because he sees no true center on the roster and a ton of playing time that is there for the taking.

If Shaq plays 10-15 minutes at the 5; someone else is going to have to play 25-30 minutes at that position.

You can't read. Not my problem.

NO, I can read just fine. Maybe your written english doesn't translate from french as well as you think, but from what this 'merican reads, it states that Woodson has "25-30" minutes staring him in the face because "he is the only true center on the roster."

I'm saying it is unfair to expect Woodson to play any more than 8-10 mpg and average more than about 4 pts and 3 rebs a game.

What is realistically available for the newcomers?

Power Forward
15 Shaq
15 Nichols
5 Iverson

Center
15 Shaq

You have to figure that almost all the minutes at the 4 are already spoken for. If Shaq is forced to play 25 minutes at the 5; then that opens the door for more minutes for Nichols, Iverson, Pellom and Woodson at that position.

The only true 5 on the roster is Woodson. The only player on the roster with extensive experience at the 5 is Pellom. Ideally, you would want Shaq to play more at the 4 than at the 5. IF Shaq is playing 20 plus minutes at the 5 it is because Pellom and Woodson can't do the job.

I am not expecting Woodson to play huge minutes. If I had to guess, I would say that the minutes at the 5 will look like this...

16 Shaq
16 Pellom
8 Woodson

The minutes are there for the taking at the 5 if Woodson and Pellom are able to perform. There probably aren't many minutes available at the 4.

(05-31-2013 09:24 AM)Stammers Wrote:  What is realistically available for the newcomers?

Power Forward
15 Shaq
15 Nichols
5 Iverson

Center
15 Shaq

You have to figure that almost all the minutes at the 4 are already spoken for. If Shaq is forced to play 25 minutes at the 5; then that opens the door for more minutes for Nichols, Iverson, Pellom and Woodson at that position.

The only true 5 on the roster is Woodson. The only player on the roster with extensive experience at the 5 is Pellom. Ideally, you would want Shaq to play more at the 4 than at the 5. IF Shaq is playing 20 plus minutes at the 5 it is because Pellom and Woodson can't do the job.

I am not expecting Woodson to play huge minutes. If I had to guess, I would say that the minutes at the 5 will look like this...

16 Shaq
16 Pellom
8 Woodson

The minutes are there for the taking at the 5 if Woodson and Pellom are able to perform. There probably aren't many minutes available at the 4.

Thanks. Very fair assessment.

In a broader scope, I would assume these minutes (regardless of "position" on the floor) for these core players.

Joe: 30 mpg
Chris: 28 mpg
Gerron: 28 mpg
Shaq: 25 mpg
Pellom (based upon pt at GW): 25 mpg.

That eats up a possible 136 of the 200 available minutes. Leaving 74 left over for Damien, Pookie, Markel, Nick, Kuran, Austin and Dom. (not to mention Craft).

I wouldn't be surprised if some guys play smaller (i.e.) Nick playing 4, Gerron/CC playing the 3, etc. Ideally, I would like to see Pookie get 8-10 mpg to get some experience under his belt since he will be the only returning pg on the roster next year, and I would like to see Dom get 10 mins for the same reason at center.

If that were the case, that only leaves 54 minutes for the five other players, and if a one or two are as good as advertised, then they could be looking at 15-18 mpg each, thus reducing the minutes for the other three to 5 or so mpg.

All in all, it's a nice problem to have.

(05-31-2013 09:53 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(05-31-2013 09:24 AM)Stammers Wrote:  What is realistically available for the newcomers?

Power Forward
15 Shaq
15 Nichols
5 Iverson

Center
15 Shaq

You have to figure that almost all the minutes at the 4 are already spoken for. If Shaq is forced to play 25 minutes at the 5; then that opens the door for more minutes for Nichols, Iverson, Pellom and Woodson at that position.

The only true 5 on the roster is Woodson. The only player on the roster with extensive experience at the 5 is Pellom. Ideally, you would want Shaq to play more at the 4 than at the 5. IF Shaq is playing 20 plus minutes at the 5 it is because Pellom and Woodson can't do the job.

I am not expecting Woodson to play huge minutes. If I had to guess, I would say that the minutes at the 5 will look like this...

16 Shaq
16 Pellom
8 Woodson

The minutes are there for the taking at the 5 if Woodson and Pellom are able to perform. There probably aren't many minutes available at the 4.

Thanks. Very fair assessment.

In a broader scope, I would assume these minutes (regardless of "position" on the floor) for these core players.

Joe: 30 mpg
Chris: 28 mpg
Gerron: 28 mpg
Shaq: 25 mpg
Pellom (based upon pt at GW): 25 mpg.

That eats up a possible 136 of the 200 available minutes. Leaving 74 left over for Damien, Pookie, Markel, Nick, Kuran, Austin and Dom. (not to mention Craft).

I wouldn't be surprised if some guys play smaller (i.e.) Nick playing 4, Gerron/CC playing the 3, etc. Ideally, I would like to see Pookie get 8-10 mpg to get some experience under his belt since he will be the only returning pg on the roster next year, and I would like to see Dom get 10 mins for the same reason at center.

If that were the case, that only leaves 54 minutes for the five other players, and if a one or two are as good as advertised, then they could be looking at 15-18 mpg each, thus reducing the minutes for the other three to 5 or so mpg.

All in all, it's a nice problem to have.

I agree completely. Joe Jackson is a good example of what was meant by minutes for the taking, versus no minutes available. Technically, there are 40 minutes available; but realistically, there are only 5-10 minutes available to Pookie. The 4 is stacked; the 5 is wide open.

Odds are that there will be a three man rotation in the front court. By the end of last year, that rotation was basically Stephens, Goodwin, and Black, with Goodwin starting as essentially the 5, with the bulk of the remaining minutes being taken up by wing players playing at the 4 in small lineups, and Ferrakhon Hall and a little of Simpson (although he had a bunch of cddnps last year) in spot minutes.

Based primarily on experience, Shaq and Pellom are the presumptive starters in the front court right now, whichever you want to call center. My guess for the third rotation guy is Nichols.

If past years are any guide, then those guys will eat up about 75 to 80 percent of the minutes at the 4 and 5 positions (with their "position" being more defined by other personnel than how they play). The bulk of the rest of the minutes will go to wing guys in small ball situations, and there may be 5 to 7 minutes available for Woodson in spot minutes, probably when we have foul trouble. If that's the case, then I can't imagine he'd get more than 2 or 3 points and 1 or 2 rebounds a game.

It is certainly possible that Woodson will come in and over perform that. If he does, he's probably going to eat into the minutes I've (somewhat arbitrarily) assigned to Pellom and/or Nichols, and if he works his way into the rotation, it's still likely to be three men, and Pellom or Nichols will probably be in the "spot minute slot," and you would certainly call him the center with whatever other personnel are in there with him.

But it will take a lot of work for him to contribute at that level. And it would be quite a surprise for a guy who averaged 5.8 and 6.1 his senior year in high school. The reality is, he'll probably only be able to contribute in spot minutes next year.

The OP's question was interesting. I will let you know my answer about next April.

Josh is doing a really nice job of slowing putting together a big, strong and skilled frontline.

That is the key to putting us back into the top 5.

Run and gun BB is nice and fun and all but the tigers will find consistent postseason success easiest by stacking tall, physical & skilled frontcourts on the floor with our already talent rich wings and guards.

That should be the approach in recruiting and it feels like that is what he is doing now more than ever.