(06-14-2013 09:37 AM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  Frank Martin is an interesting guy. I haven't been able to track it down again, but I remember seeing a funny mock court design for KSU that had his glaring face on either side of the court.

As for overall SEC hoops, I tend to think that it's underrated at times, but ultimately it does reflect the conference's priorities. Just as the SEC excels in football because it really matters to them, and the Big East excels in basketball because it's what really matters to them, the SEC's flag in hoops will continue to be mostly carried by UK because that's what they care about the most. I think the same is true of the Big 12 and KU, where we're a hoops-centric island in a football-focused conference. The ACC leans toward hoops (but not to the extent of the Big East), the B1G is somewhat balanced, and the PAC just wants to hit the slopes and the waves.

Interesting points, but I would suggest that the ACC hasn't really been excelling at either simply because they haven't arrived at one mind on the issue. I think the Big 10 leans more toward hoops these days even though football is important to them. I think it is within their grasp to be stellar in basketball. I don't think it is within their grasp outright to be dominant in football. There simply isn't enough top notch talent in their backyards to field 14 highly competitive teams. I think the best the Big 10 can hope for in football is 5 solid teams each year with one or two of them having an outside shot at the playoffs.

The SEC's dominance in football is due more to natural resources than to superior coaching or cultural desires. We simply have far more prospects with which to work and therefore it is possible that 9 of our 14 schools can be competitive every year and that 3 or 4 of them will have an outside shot at the playoffs. Now to say a team has an outside shot at the playoffs doesn't mean that we ever get more than two into them, but rather to say that we may have as many as 4 vying for those two spots. I'm sure the Big 10 will get at least one in almost every year so when I say they may have one or two with an outside shot I'm saying that on good years the Big 10 may have two schools vying for their spot.

Everyone questions the SEC's basketball prowess and dismisses it as lack of interest. I would strongly suggest that it is due to a sparsity of trained talent. Because of our culture the best athletes in the South are steered into the sports that carry the most perks. Therefore football trumps baseball which trumps basketball. We have basketball talent, but usually not a wealth of high school basketball coaches who know how to teach team play or who operate with a complex understanding of either offensive or defensive schemes. The result is that a high school game in the South is usually 10 athletes running up and down the court doing what comes naturally and the one that has two studs wins. So when that talent is signed by college coaches they have to teach the game to the freshmen. Once they've taught them if they are stars they are gone in a year's time. I think that gives Northern and Eastern teams an advantage. Their kids have better coaches at the high school level and therefore their freshmen seasons in college aren't remedial learning opportunities. You do realize that most high school basketball coaches in the South are football coaches keeping their kids in shape for Spring?

(06-14-2013 02:42 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  

(06-14-2013 12:50 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(06-14-2013 10:11 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(06-14-2013 09:37 AM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  Frank Martin is an interesting guy. I haven't been able to track it down again, but I remember seeing a funny mock court design for KSU that had his glaring face on either side of the court.

As for overall SEC hoops, I tend to think that it's underrated at times, but ultimately it does reflect the conference's priorities. Just as the SEC excels in football because it really matters to them, and the Big East excels in basketball because it's what really matters to them, the SEC's flag in hoops will continue to be mostly carried by UK because that's what they care about the most. I think the same is true of the Big 12 and KU, where we're a hoops-centric island in a football-focused conference. The ACC leans toward hoops (but not to the extent of the Big East), the B1G is somewhat balanced, and the PAC just wants to hit the slopes and the waves.

Can't blame the PAC for their priorities! You are certainly right about the cultures. Not sure if you noticed, but Slive put his foot down about as forcefully as I've ever seen it about men's basketball improving their quality and scheduling. About half the programs have been coasting along for over a decade, and it's hurting the better schools' RPI.

By the way, we have a seat warm for KU when the dominoes come tumbling down in about a decade

That would be interesting.

If and when that happens, I suspect that the likely order for KU's movement would be B1G, PAC, ACC, and then SEC, assuming that the ACC remains viable while the Big 12 implodes. We'll have to wait and see how that would play out - there are certainly a lot of competing interests, most of whom would be contending primarily for the same few targets. The resulting combinations would be a factor in where we'd end up, since our appeal is probably greater as part of a coherent whole than in isolation.

I think it will be interesting to see what impact Missouri's presence in the SEC will have on both SEC and Missouri hoops. aTm is clearly a football-first-second-and-third school. I don't see that changing any time soon, particularly after the season they've just had in football. Missouri was at one point certainly very much a football-first school, but basketball certainly came into more prominence under Norm Stewart. It'll be interesting to see if they see that as a good place to make their mark in their new home, and whether their fans are truly passionate about basketball, or if their interest in basketball was at least somewhat predicated in it being the best way to irritate their friends to the West.

I think your grasp of Kansas's potential home should the demise of the Big 12 occur is solid. The only thing I would remind you of is that all of these schools' third tier providers will play a hand in determining their ultimate destination. That is why I'm dubious about Texas ever winding up in the PAC or Oklahoma ever winding up in the SEC or ACC. ESPN owns the LHN and therefore the option on Texas' third tier and Comcast owns the Sooners' third tier. While these factors will not determine a future conference home outright, they certainly will be a factor in the overall determination.

JR, your description about lack of quality B-ball coaches down here is spot on. Half of the rural basketball coaches are the assistant football coaches looking for another coaching stipend. You get good coaching at big city private schools, but that is about it. That's probably why so many of our best players go to Huntingdon Prep or a similar place. I don't blame them.

Kansas to the B1G, if/when the time comes, seems totally natural. I will be curious to see how they handle the K-State problem with that arrangement, though. As you've said before, K-State to the SEC, if the cards fell right, may not be out of the question. They really need someone other than Bill Snyder to show that they are a stable program over the next decade. Their plummet when Snyder retired the first time did not help their national image very much. Interestingly, Oklahoma State also has a similar point to prove once the T-Boone Pickens' money dries up. Hopefully, they have invested well and are treating it more as an endowment than a credit card. If I am a P5 conference considering adding a member, it would make me pretty nervous to see one person have such a gigantic presence without being able to forecast what the next 50 years will be like without them.

(06-14-2013 04:30 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  JR, your description about lack of quality B-ball coaches down here is spot on. Half of the rural basketball coaches are the assistant football coaches looking for another coaching stipend. You get good coaching at big city private schools, but that is about it. That's probably why so many of our best players go to Huntingdon Prep or a similar place. I don't blame them.

Kansas to the B1G, if/when the time comes, seems totally natural. I will be curious to see how they handle the K-State problem with that arrangement, though. As you've said before, K-State to the SEC, if the cards fell right, may not be out of the question. They really need someone other than Bill Snyder to show that they are a stable program over the next decade. Their plummet when Snyder retired the first time did not help their national image very much. Interestingly, Oklahoma State also has a similar point to prove once the T-Boone Pickens' money dries up. Hopefully, they have invested well and are treating it more as an endowment than a credit card. If I am a P5 conference considering adding a member, it would make me pretty nervous to see one person have such a gigantic presence without being able to forecast what the next 50 years will be like without them.

Kansas State shares some veterinary ties with the Vet schools in the SEC already. That is something to build on if nothing else. As far as Boone Pickens is concerned he will dry up to dust before his money does. The question will be is OSU in the will. I don't think any of this is over at all. But everything that happens from here on will be negotiated out with other conferences in the discussion all the way and the networks putting their two cents worth in to boot. Whatever, and whenever, moves happen they will be all at once and it will be over with before we know anything was going on. It will be interesting to see how this finally plays out though. And when it does I'll be ready for us to settle into our new relationships long term. That alone will bring a sense of stability back to all of the conferences and allow new rivalries and traditions to grow.

"It'll be interesting to see if they see that as a good place to make their mark in their new home, and whether their fans are truly passionate about basketball, or if their interest in basketball was at least somewhat predicated in it being the best way to irritate their friends to the West."

If any of you have seen the new BB facility on the Missouri campus, you will know that they are passionate about BB. The facility costed a cool 72 million dollars and it's nice. Many Big XII folks actually considered Mizzou a BB first school.

Mizzou's BB program is doing better in the SEC than their football program is. That's for sure...

(06-14-2013 09:10 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Mizzou's BB program is doing better in the SEC than their football program is. That's for sure...

Yep. They had some distractions last year by Haith and the Miami thing, and a couple kids that chose to play hard hard every other game. Massive choke in the NCAA tourney. Twice in two years.

(06-15-2013 11:38 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(06-14-2013 09:10 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Mizzou's BB program is doing better in the SEC than their football program is. That's for sure...

Yep. They had some distractions last year by Haith and the Miami thing, and a couple kids that chose to play hard hard every other game. Massive choke in the NCAA tourney. Twice in two years.

I'm sure all Pitt fans can relate there...

(06-15-2013 12:28 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-15-2013 11:38 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(06-14-2013 09:10 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Mizzou's BB program is doing better in the SEC than their football program is. That's for sure...

Yep. They had some distractions last year by Haith and the Miami thing, and a couple kids that chose to play hard hard every other game. Massive choke in the NCAA tourney. Twice in two years.

I'm sure all Pitt fans can relate there...

Looking forward to the Missou-WVU game. Where is going to be played? I have not checked.

The game is at Missouri on Dec. 5th...

(06-14-2013 07:26 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  "It'll be interesting to see if they see that as a good place to make their mark in their new home, and whether their fans are truly passionate about basketball, or if their interest in basketball was at least somewhat predicated in it being the best way to irritate their friends to the West."

If any of you have seen the new BB facility on the Missouri campus, you will know that they are passionate about BB. The facility costed a cool 72 million dollars and it's nice. Many Big XII folks actually considered Mizzou a BB first school.

Yeah, they just had to get over that messy naming thing....

But of course, that was just sheer bad luck. I've only driven past it, but I've heard it's a nice facility.

(06-17-2013 09:10 AM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  

(06-14-2013 07:26 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  "It'll be interesting to see if they see that as a good place to make their mark in their new home, and whether their fans are truly passionate about basketball, or if their interest in basketball was at least somewhat predicated in it being the best way to irritate their friends to the West."

If any of you have seen the new BB facility on the Missouri campus, you will know that they are passionate about BB. The facility costed a cool 72 million dollars and it's nice. Many Big XII folks actually considered Mizzou a BB first school.

Yeah, they just had to get over that messy naming thing....

But of course, that was just sheer bad luck. I've only driven past it, but I've heard it's a nice facility.

Is UGA still playing basketball ?