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Sun Belt will make no further additions "at this time"
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HawaiiMongoose Offline
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Sun Belt will make no further additions "at this time"
http://www.theadvertiser.com/article/201...ck_check=1

According to Benson they will revisit the issue "later this fall and early this winter". It's pretty obvious they're standing pat for now in hopes of landing JMU after its feasibility study is done.
05-23-2013 12:59 AM
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RE: Sun Belt will make no further additions "at this time"
Doesn't it have to do more w/ waiting until after June 1 so that JMU will still be eligible for the 2013 FCS playoffs. ODU had to do that last year.
05-23-2013 01:24 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: Sun Belt will make no further additions "at this time"
(05-23-2013 01:24 AM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  Doesn't it have to do more w/ waiting until after June 1 so that JMU will still be eligible for the 2013 FCS playoffs. ODU had to do that last year.
Same year wait either way. Decide that you are going to move, and you sacrifice the chance at the championship. The only timing that increases the number of championship tries you give up it is putting in your notice between June 1 and the end of the football season, since the process will not start until the following June 1.

The Sunbelt clearly thinks its likely to get a better choice if it waits a year. I don't know if that is necessarily JMU, but it seems likely to be true, as it sinks in with various people that the Sunbelt could well be holding one of the last two tickets leaving the station in this decade.
05-23-2013 08:17 AM
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mufanatehc Offline
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RE: Sun Belt will make no further additions "at this time"
(05-23-2013 01:24 AM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  Doesn't it have to do more w/ waiting until after June 1 so that JMU will still be eligible for the 2013 FCS playoffs. ODU had to do that last year.

ODU announced in May, but didn't sign the papers until June
05-23-2013 09:33 AM
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RE: Sun Belt will make no further additions "at this time"
Sun Belt likely has an academic issue...

Its two top targets may be JMU and Delaware as a combo...but they aren't interested in grouping with some of the Sun Belt crowd.
05-23-2013 10:24 AM
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hapapp Offline
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RE: Sun Belt will make no further additions "at this time"
(05-23-2013 10:24 AM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  Sun Belt likely has an academic issue...

Its two top targets may be JMU and Delaware as a combo...but they aren't interested in grouping with some of the Sun Belt crowd.

That would take the SBC to 13 football playing schools. I don't think that is what they are aiming for.
05-23-2013 11:06 AM
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RE: Sun Belt will make no further additions "at this time"
(05-23-2013 11:06 AM)hapapp Wrote:  
(05-23-2013 10:24 AM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  Sun Belt likely has an academic issue...

Its two top targets may be JMU and Delaware as a combo...but they aren't interested in grouping with some of the Sun Belt crowd.

That would take the SBC to 13 football playing schools. I don't think that is what they are aiming for.

You forget the restart of UTA - Football. That makes 14.

I think the real targets are UTA Football and Missouri State.
05-23-2013 11:12 AM
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bullet Offline
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RE: Sun Belt will make no further additions "at this time"
(05-23-2013 11:12 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  
(05-23-2013 11:06 AM)hapapp Wrote:  
(05-23-2013 10:24 AM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  Sun Belt likely has an academic issue...

Its two top targets may be JMU and Delaware as a combo...but they aren't interested in grouping with some of the Sun Belt crowd.

That would take the SBC to 13 football playing schools. I don't think that is what they are aiming for.

You forget the restart of UTA - Football. That makes 14.

I think the real targets are UTA Football and Missouri State.

Benson was talking about geographic divisions. They now have 6 west of the Mississippi and 5 east (for both fb and basketball). UTA and Missouri State are both west. So that would indicate someone in the east was a target.
05-23-2013 12:16 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: Sun Belt will make no further additions "at this time"
(05-23-2013 11:06 AM)Wedge Wrote:  Is Delaware intent on moving to FBS?
They seem to be disinclined to move up via the Sunbelt, which would leave it MAC or stay where they are.

People keep mentioning Delaware because of their attendance ... but the flipside of that is, if they are successful in FCS, they may prefer to stand pat.
05-23-2013 12:50 PM
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GoApps70 Offline
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RE: Sun Belt will make no further additions "at this time"
(05-23-2013 11:20 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-23-2013 11:12 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  I think the real targets are UTA Football and Missouri State.

Those are two very different things.

Arlington doesn't even have FCS football now. To start FBS football, they would need to go from 0 to 85 football scholarships and add the same number of women's scholarships by starting several new women's sports (probably six or seven). That's a very large amount of money, and it doesn't even count facilities for football that Arlington would have to build.

Mo State has a much more do-able jump because they only have to add 22 FB scholarships and two women's sports, and they already have suitable facilities.

UNCC didn't have football at all, just like UTA. Didn't stop them, they play first year of FCS football this year.
UTA used to play football. Has a stadium. Not sure if the Sun Belt is counting them as the 12th football playing school
but may have their eyes on that possibility.
05-23-2013 01:43 PM
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GoApps70 Offline
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RE: Sun Belt will make no further additions "at this time"
(05-23-2013 12:50 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(05-23-2013 11:06 AM)Wedge Wrote:  Is Delaware intent on moving to FBS?
They seem to be disinclined to move up via the Sunbelt, which would leave it MAC or stay where they are.

People keep mentioning Delaware because of their attendance ... but the flipside of that is, if they are successful in FCS, they may prefer to stand pat.

Delaware has not indicated any FBS aspirations other than a couple of off the wall mentions by a couple of coaches. No real reason to believe they are that interested in FBS.
05-23-2013 01:44 PM
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FloridaJag Offline
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RE: Sun Belt will make no further additions "at this time"
(05-23-2013 12:16 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(05-23-2013 11:12 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  
(05-23-2013 11:06 AM)hapapp Wrote:  
(05-23-2013 10:24 AM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  Sun Belt likely has an academic issue...

Its two top targets may be JMU and Delaware as a combo...but they aren't interested in grouping with some of the Sun Belt crowd.

That would take the SBC to 13 football playing schools. I don't think that is what they are aiming for.

You forget the restart of UTA - Football. That makes 14.

I think the real targets are UTA Football and Missouri State.

Benson was talking about geographic divisions. They now have 6 west of the Mississippi and 5 east (for both fb and basketball). UTA and Missouri State are both west. So that would indicate someone in the east was a target.

Who stated/determined the Mississippi River was the delineation between the "geographic divisions"?
05-23-2013 03:18 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: Sun Belt will make no further additions "at this time"
(05-23-2013 12:50 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(05-23-2013 11:06 AM)Wedge Wrote:  Is Delaware intent on moving to FBS?
They seem to be disinclined to move up via the Sunbelt, which would leave it MAC or stay where they are.

People keep mentioning Delaware because of their attendance ... but the flipside of that is, if they are successful in FCS, they may prefer to stand pat.

(05-23-2013 01:44 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Delaware has not indicated any FBS aspirations other than a couple of off the wall mentions by a couple of coaches. No real reason to believe they are that interested in FBS.
Yes, I'd figured it would be understood that when I said "people keep mentioning", I was not talking about the University of Delaware saying any such thing. AFAIK, their administration has always talked down FBS speculation.
05-23-2013 04:10 PM
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Fresno St. Alum Offline
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RE: Sun Belt will make no further additions "at this time"
(05-23-2013 08:17 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(05-23-2013 01:24 AM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  Doesn't it have to do more w/ waiting until after June 1 so that JMU will still be eligible for the 2013 FCS playoffs. ODU had to do that last year.
Same year wait either way. Decide that you are going to move, and you sacrifice the chance at the championship. The only timing that increases the number of championship tries you give up it is putting in your notice between June 1 and the end of the football season, since the process will not start until the following June 1.

The Sunbelt clearly thinks its likely to get a better choice if it waits a year. I don't know if that is necessarily JMU, but it seems likely to be true, as it sinks in with various people that the Sunbelt could well be holding one of the last two tickets leaving the station in this decade.
It matters b/c the kids you recruited thought it was for fcs and playoffs. If they wait there's a year warning to the kids that they'll have no postseason for the next 2 years. I think ODU said something like that.
05-23-2013 09:36 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: Sun Belt will make no further additions "at this time"
I'm glad the Belt stopped at 11. Its obvious that only 3 teams wanted to jump now. Jacksonville State, Lamar, and Liberty. None of them were supported by enough of the Belt membership.

JMU may have to fight for a Belt bid in a year's time. Missouri State, UTA, SHSU, NDSU might make a stronger bid. At least those schools appear to be comfortable with a Belt bid.
05-24-2013 10:22 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: Sun Belt will make no further additions "at this time"
(05-24-2013 10:22 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  I'm glad the Belt stopped at 11. Its obvious that only 3 teams wanted to jump now. Jacksonville State, Lamar, and Liberty. None of them were supported by enough of the Belt membership.

JMU may have to fight for a Belt bid in a year's time. Missouri State, UTA, SHSU, NDSU might make a stronger bid. At least those schools appear to be comfortable with a Belt bid.
Yes, I agree it was clearly the smarter move for the Sunbelt. Give it a year to settle in that that the Sunbelt is likely to have one of the last tickets into the FBS that will be given out until the 20's, and that will focus the attention of those who are considering whether or not they want to move onto either start working toward a Sunbelt spot or else staying in the FCS for the balance of the decade. Especially for schools like NDSU, UTA and NDSU that do not have any realistic prospect of a MAC invitation.

(05-23-2013 09:36 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  It matters b/c the kids you recruited thought it was for fcs and playoffs. If they wait there's a year warning to the kids that they'll have no postseason for the next 2 years. I think ODU said something like that.
But put the application in 1 July, wouldn't you still lose the right to participate in the FCS tournament that year? That's what that bylaw looks like it says. That would be three years lost post-season if the application was submitted between 1 June and the end of the FCS championships:

Quote: 20.4.2.1.2 Notification/Application Requirement.
The chancellor or president from a Football Championship Subdivision institution that intends to petition for reclassification to the Football Bowl Subdivision, per Bylaw 20.4.2, shall submit to the national office written notice of the institution’s intention to reclassify and a completed application. The notice and application shall be received in the national office (by mail or electronic transmission) not later than June 1 two years prior to the August 1 when the institution intends to reclassify to the Football Bowl Subdivision. Any form received after June 1 shall be postmarked not later than May 25. ... (Adopted: 4/28/05, Revised: 3/8/06, 12/15/06, 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

So if it is submitted 1 July or 1 August, then the June 1 that is "two years prior to August 1" is June 1 the following year, so the August 1 would be three years in the future.

Quote: 20.4.3 Championships eligibility.
A member of Division I that has forwarded to the national office written notice of its intention to change its football membership classification from Championship Subdivision to Bowl Subdivision per Bylaw 20.4.2.1 no longer shall be eligible for participation in the Division I Football Championship.
(Adopted: 4/26/01 effective 8/1/01, Revised: 12/15/06)

The whole period from putting in notice until completing the transition and being eligible for FBS bowls is two football seasons if you apply between the end of football season and 1 June, and three football seasons if you apply between 1 June and the end of the following football season.

Not applying until after the end of the current football season would let those kids recruited to play with hopes of post-season play get their run at the FCS championship in. Applying after 1 June but before the end of the football season wouldn't help.

However, notice that there is a gimmick you can use for PR purposes. Since its the written notice of intention to move that triggers loss of FCS playoff access, not the submission of the application, you can submit your application in July or August, and tell the press that you've done so, but hold off on submitting your written notice of intent to move until 25 May.
(This post was last modified: 05-24-2013 01:01 PM by BruceMcF.)
05-24-2013 12:51 PM
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RE: Sun Belt will make no further additions "at this time"
(05-23-2013 10:24 AM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  Sun Belt likely has an academic issue...

Its two top targets may be JMU and Delaware as a combo...but they aren't interested in grouping with some of the Sun Belt crowd.

Like who?
05-24-2013 01:18 PM
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GoApps70 Offline
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RE: Sun Belt will make no further additions "at this time"
(05-23-2013 09:36 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  
(05-23-2013 08:17 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(05-23-2013 01:24 AM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  Doesn't it have to do more w/ waiting until after June 1 so that JMU will still be eligible for the 2013 FCS playoffs. ODU had to do that last year.
Same year wait either way. Decide that you are going to move, and you sacrifice the chance at the championship. The only timing that increases the number of championship tries you give up it is putting in your notice between June 1 and the end of the football season, since the process will not start until the following June 1.

The Sunbelt clearly thinks its likely to get a better choice if it waits a year. I don't know if that is necessarily JMU, but it seems likely to be true, as it sinks in with various people that the Sunbelt could well be holding one of the last two tickets leaving the station in this decade.
It matters b/c the kids you recruited thought it was for fcs and playoffs. If they wait there's a year warning to the kids that they'll have no postseason for the next 2 years. I think ODU said something like that.

Imagine a potential FBS move was explained to all those kids. Hurts to wait, makes it more painful knowing that it is coming, so getting it over with would be a good thing.
(This post was last modified: 05-24-2013 01:24 PM by GoApps70.)
05-24-2013 01:23 PM
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Fresno St. Alum Offline
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RE: Sun Belt will make no further additions "at this time"
(05-24-2013 12:51 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(05-24-2013 10:22 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  I'm glad the Belt stopped at 11. Its obvious that only 3 teams wanted to jump now. Jacksonville State, Lamar, and Liberty. None of them were supported by enough of the Belt membership.

JMU may have to fight for a Belt bid in a year's time. Missouri State, UTA, SHSU, NDSU might make a stronger bid. At least those schools appear to be comfortable with a Belt bid.
Yes, I agree it was clearly the smarter move for the Sunbelt. Give it a year to settle in that that the Sunbelt is likely to have one of the last tickets into the FBS that will be given out until the 20's, and that will focus the attention of those who are considering whether or not they want to move onto either start working toward a Sunbelt spot or else staying in the FCS for the balance of the decade. Especially for schools like NDSU, UTA and NDSU that do not have any realistic prospect of a MAC invitation.

(05-23-2013 09:36 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  It matters b/c the kids you recruited thought it was for fcs and playoffs. If they wait there's a year warning to the kids that they'll have no postseason for the next 2 years. I think ODU said something like that.
But put the application in 1 July, wouldn't you still lose the right to participate in the FCS tournament that year? That's what that bylaw looks like it says. That would be three years lost post-season if the application was submitted between 1 June and the end of the FCS championships:

Quote: 20.4.2.1.2 Notification/Application Requirement.
The chancellor or president from a Football Championship Subdivision institution that intends to petition for reclassification to the Football Bowl Subdivision, per Bylaw 20.4.2, shall submit to the national office written notice of the institution’s intention to reclassify and a completed application. The notice and application shall be received in the national office (by mail or electronic transmission) not later than June 1 two years prior to the August 1 when the institution intends to reclassify to the Football Bowl Subdivision. Any form received after June 1 shall be postmarked not later than May 25. ... (Adopted: 4/28/05, Revised: 3/8/06, 12/15/06, 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

So if it is submitted 1 July or 1 August, then the June 1 that is "two years prior to August 1" is June 1 the following year, so the August 1 would be three years in the future.

Quote: 20.4.3 Championships eligibility.
A member of Division I that has forwarded to the national office written notice of its intention to change its football membership classification from Championship Subdivision to Bowl Subdivision per Bylaw 20.4.2.1 no longer shall be eligible for participation in the Division I Football Championship.
(Adopted: 4/26/01 effective 8/1/01, Revised: 12/15/06)

The whole period from putting in notice until completing the transition and being eligible for FBS bowls is two football seasons if you apply between the end of football season and 1 June, and three football seasons if you apply between 1 June and the end of the following football season.

Not applying until after the end of the current football season would let those kids recruited to play with hopes of post-season play get their run at the FCS championship in. Applying after 1 June but before the end of the football season wouldn't help.

However, notice that there is a gimmick you can use for PR purposes. Since its the written notice of intention to move that triggers loss of FCS playoff access, not the submission of the application, you can submit your application in July or August, and tell the press that you've done so, but hold off on submitting your written notice of intent to move until 25 May.
okay then July 1, I thought it was June 1 for FCS playoff, seems fcs board was making a fuss about ODU waiting until then to move.
05-24-2013 02:39 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: Sun Belt will make no further additions "at this time"
(05-24-2013 02:39 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  okay then July 1, I thought it was June 1 for FCS playoff, seems fcs board was making a fuss about ODU waiting until then to move.
ODU must have been putting in the application to great fanfare in the summer, telling the (partial) truth about making their application, and then quietly put in the official notice the following spring. Since its not a division change, there wouldn't be any difference in putting the written notice in anytime between FCS championship game and 1 June.

Waiting until after June 1 would make it clear they were not moving up until three more football seasons had passed ... but if they had put in all the paperwork after 1 June, they still would have missed the FCS championships for the coming season. Putting all of your paperwork in during July or August just means you miss the post-season for three seasons rather than two.
(This post was last modified: 05-24-2013 02:57 PM by BruceMcF.)
05-24-2013 02:55 PM
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