(05-14-2013 09:47 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  It's going to hurt Ohio State when it comes to the playoff selection criteria. SOS is supposed to be a part of the formula, and I doubt the B1G can rely on conference strength alone. They don't have that kind of strength from top to bottom, like the SEC...

Honestly I will believe SOS argument when I actually see it happen. Supposedly SOS mattered before but it did little and back when it did for a little while it caused such an uproar (since it messed with what people thought the rankings should be) that they toned it down.

(05-14-2013 09:31 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  

(05-14-2013 09:47 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  It's going to hurt Ohio State when it comes to the playoff selection criteria. SOS is supposed to be a part of the formula, and I doubt the B1G can rely on conference strength alone. They don't have that kind of strength from top to bottom, like the SEC...

Honestly I will believe SOS argument when I actually see it happen. Supposedly SOS mattered before but it did little and back when it did for a little while it caused such an uproar (since it messed with what people thought the rankings should be) that they toned it down.

+1. SoS weight was reduced considerably after the 1999-2000 season in which a team from the mountains of Virgina (can you believe it?) was selected to play in the national championship... over a 1-loss Nebraska team! Oh, my!

1999 Final BCS rankings, regular season:
Rank Team W-L
1 Florida Sta 11-0
2 Va Tech 11-0
3 Nebraska 11-1
4 Alabama 10-2

How funny. A spat between the Big 10/11/12/13/14 and TSISB. 2 sides each used to getting their own way, and neither liking how the other side is as arrogant as they are. Toooo funny.

(05-14-2013 07:26 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  There's psychology at work here.

Michigan expects to beat Sparty, not make a series out of it. But a loss to Sparty hurts more than to ND.

Notre Dame doesn't want to acknowledge that the Big Ten exists, which precludes admitting a rivalry. ND also didn't get a Hoke "countdown clock" along with OSU and MSU -- how insulting is that????

Haden says his USC guys don't see the game as a huge rivalry, yet ND claims it as so. Go figure.

At least Hoke didn't say they don't "have the chest" for it

(05-14-2013 08:30 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  As for Michigan, I have friends from Michigan who now live in SC. They tell me to them Notre Dame was the #2 rival, even ahead of Michigan State (behind only Ohio State). However, my friends who are Notre Dame fans - particularly the ones from Indiana - tell me Michigan is just another good team to them. They see USC as #1 rival, with Michigan State, Stanford and Navy all clearly ahead of Michigan. I guess Coach Hoke is having a hard time accepting the fact that Notre Dame would rather play 5 games vs. ACC teams than to continue playing the Wolverines every year.

Sea Blue is going to disagree, but here is my viewpoint:


Michigan is a team that blocked ND from the Big 10 in the 1920s, refused to play ND for over almost 4 decades (twice!) after ND started beating them and often lobbied their Big 10 brethren to also blackball ND from their schedule.

Their former coach, Bo Schembechler, often publicly bitched and whined about ND for years.

Michigan tried to pressure ND into joining their conference, renewed its efforts to encourage its conference brethren to boycott ND, and then signaled its desire to drop ND.

Now they complain that ND dropped them. That's just silly and par for the course.

The links in my original post show that Michigan's AD, David Brandon, was talking about Michigan dropping ND back in 2011. It was Michigan who first cancelled the two games in 2017-18.

This is what David Brandon said in 2011, a year before ND canceled the series:

As Brandon told the News: "I have to have seven home games a year. If you think about a nine-game Big Ten schedule, there will be one year I have four home games and one year I have five. In the year that I have four, I have to play every one of my non-conference games at home, so I can't be in a world where I have four Big Ten home games and I'm supposed to play Notre Dame (in South Bend). I can't live in that world. Those are the kinds of issues I have to deal with."


http://collegefootball.about.c...gan-rivalry.htm

They are now just mad that ND pulled the trigger first on the series.

It was going to go away for several reasons. One, Michigan wanted wanted more home games. Two, the Big Ten is going to nine conference games. Three, ND needed to make room for 5 ACC games.

ND beat them to the punch, that is all. Michigan wanted to be the one who canned it and are just pissed that ND drew and fired first.

I am glad that they are pissed. Brady Hoke is just being a hypocritical *******.

(05-14-2013 11:20 PM)TerryD Wrote:  Sea Blue is going to disagree, but here is my viewpoint:

For the record I have already disagreed with TerryD on this topic and will, in the future, disagree with TerryD on any topic until notified otherwise.

Gotta love them Michigan fans

Michigan needs to focus on being able to beat its in conference rivals, they have 2 wins against Ohio State and Michigan State combined in the last 5 years, and they weren't big wins either, they were damn close games. Hoke just needs to shut up and do his job, which is to coach, not blab his mouth to the media.

(05-14-2013 11:20 PM)TerryD Wrote:  Michigan is a team that blocked ND from the Big 10 in the 1920s, refused to play ND for over almost 4 decades (twice!) after ND started beating them and often lobbied their Big 10 brethren to also blackball ND from their schedule.

Their former coach, Bo Schembechler, often publicly bitched and whined about ND for years.

Up through here, all of this is ancient history which anybody in their right mind would not worry about.

And there's ample leeway for confirmation bias in the last ~ any one-eyed ND supporter worth their salt could easily characterize anybody who told the truth about Notre Dame rather than genuflecting to Notre Dame hagiography as "bitching and whining".

(05-15-2013 09:55 AM)DexterDevil Wrote:  Michigan needs to focus on being able to beat its in conference rivals, they have 2 wins against Ohio State and Michigan State combined in the last 5 years, and they weren't big wins either, they were damn close games. Hoke just needs to shut up and do his job, which is to coach, not blab his mouth to the media.

This was talking to boosters, and his job at that point in time was to shake some shekels loose from the pockets of said boosters. If some trash talk against Notre Dame gets some more money to flow, that'd be doing his job.

Michigan would have one of the best offenses in the nation had they kept Rodriguez around, and the defense would be much improved now that Jeff Casteel has rejoined his staff in Arizona. But they were impatient with someone who wasn't a Michigan man, and they decided to Hoke themselves. They've gotten what they deserved...

Who cares about Michigan? Besides Michigan fans, that is...

(05-14-2013 08:27 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Ohio State 2013 OOC schedule:
08/31 – Buffalo
09/07 – San Diego State
09/14 – at California
09/21 – Florida A&M

One decent P5 team and 3 cupcakes.

Including an FCS team, which the Buckeyes won't be contracting in the future ... not an FCS team and a team one year away from being in the FCS, like Bama, the Vols and it seems like half the Big12, but still and all I'm happy they've put a stop to the FCS teams.

(05-14-2013 07:55 AM)XLance Wrote:  Ohio State just cancelled with North Carolina.
Urban is not taking any chances.

(05-14-2013 08:27 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Ohio State 2013 OOC schedule:
08/31 – Buffalo
09/07 – San Diego State
09/14 – at California
09/21 – Florida A&M

One decent P5 team and 3 cupcakes.

I wouldn't call SDSU a "cupcake". They've got a pretty solid program right now.

(05-13-2013 11:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-13-2013 10:40 PM)TerryD Wrote:  Lol, so says Brady Hoke, the coach with the OOC schedule of Central Michigan, Akron, and UConn.

In 2014, Michigan goes big time with games against Appalachian State, Miami of Ohio, and Utah.

Someone should educate him that Notre Dame has played Michigan State a lot longer than Michigan and they really have not had any issues with the series like they have had with Michigan.

Besides, David Brandon, Michigan's AD, made noise a couple of years ago about ending the series. He flat out talked about canceling it.

Hoke should have talked to his boss first before making an ass out of himself.

http://collegefootball.about.com/b/2011/...ivalry.htm


Michigan cancelled the 2018 and 2019 games first, anyway. Were they scared? Is that why they did it?


http://www.annarbor.com/sports/um-footba...tate-unlv/


It was a contractual matter for ND in September, 2012. The series was going to automatically roll over to another three game set if it wasn't ended when it was.

I guess that ND was "scared" when they set up series with Texas and Oklahoma, too?


Everyone knew this series would be interrupted. Like I said, Dave Brandon talked about the series being in danger back in 2011.

Michigan is just mad that ND beat them to the punch (after the 2018-19 "hiatus" by the Skunkbears). They don't like that this time, they just got canned first.

The contract was going to be canceled, either because of the B1G going to nine conference games or the ACC provisions of ND's schedules going forward or both.

One of the teams was going to cancel right before hosting a game, which would mean that team would get the last home game in the series.

They're just pissed ND did it before they could. Too damn bad.

Someone should ask Hoke why Michigan refused to play ND from 1910-41 and from 1943-1978. Was Michigan "scared"?

Hoke's bloviations are baseless and meaningless.

Besides, Michigan State has beaten Michigan 4 out of 5. Perhaps, ND is keeping the better team?

Nothing could ruin a conference's strength perception faster than having one of its two champions defeated by a non conference foe. Everybody is going on and on about 9 conference games and Strength of Schedule for the coming playoffs. All of these conferences (SEC included) will add a strong non-conference game to their schedule. But you just watch who the top two of each conference choose. They will take a fading big name, or a strong mid-range adversary for that slot, or weaker. No conference is going to want to risk the knock out punch to public perception by having one of their big dogs take it on the chin, especially early in the season.

If anyone is chicken here it is Michigan and the conference they represent. But I'm not casting a stone in their direction because there is a log in Alabama's eye as well. I doubt under the new system that either of them would risk a game against each other as they did previously. There is simply too much money riding on it. Notre Dame is on the upswing and their coach is one reason. The Irish are a team that could easily lay one on the chin of either of the Big 10's usual standard bearers. I would look for the Big 10 stalwarts to schedule a mid-level PAC team (not Oregon or Stanford).

I would look for Alabama to continue looking for an ACC challenger and not a contender. Alabama is not afraid of the opponent just of having a bad first game and ruining a season. Ditto for the Wolverines.

The PAC sent Oregon up against L.S.U. and the result was much less consideration the rest of the season. That won't happen again either.

L.S.U., Georgia, and Alabama will be much more conservative in a couple of years about who they play out of conference. Florida will always claim the F.S.U. game and South Carolina the Clemson game. I imagine Georgia will do the same with Tech.

When Saban speaks of playing only against upper tier teams I imagine the scheduling will be more carefully researched than ever before and that the Vanderbilts, Kansas's, Wake Forest's, Mississippi's, Kentucky's, Washington State's, Minnesota's, Indiana's, Purdue's, Colorado's, Utah's, B.C.'s and Illinois's of the world will have to beat the calling AD's off with a stick. Meanwhile the back offices of the Louisville's, Clemson's, Arkansas's, Oklahoma State's, N.C. State's, Texas A&M's, Washington's, and West Virginia's the phone will remain relatively quiet. They will be too dangerous for everyone's conference beauty to go out with. And it won't be about being afraid of playing them in football. It will be out of fear of missing out on a very big end of the season check.

I enjoyed reading your very insightful take. Do you see any possibility of Alabama scheduling NIU ala 2003?

(05-15-2013 02:05 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(05-14-2013 08:27 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Ohio State 2013 OOC schedule:
08/31 – Buffalo
09/07 – San Diego State
09/14 – at California
09/21 – Florida A&M

One decent P5 team and 3 cupcakes.

I wouldn't call SDSU a "cupcake". They've got a pretty solid program right now.

Right now I'd call SDSU an above average GO5 team and the other 3 cupcakes. Cal fired Tetford because he stopped winning

(05-15-2013 03:21 PM)Poliicious Wrote:  

(05-13-2013 11:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-13-2013 10:40 PM)TerryD Wrote:  Lol, so says Brady Hoke, the coach with the OOC schedule of Central Michigan, Akron, and UConn.

In 2014, Michigan goes big time with games against Appalachian State, Miami of Ohio, and Utah.

Someone should educate him that Notre Dame has played Michigan State a lot longer than Michigan and they really have not had any issues with the series like they have had with Michigan.

Besides, David Brandon, Michigan's AD, made noise a couple of years ago about ending the series. He flat out talked about canceling it.

Hoke should have talked to his boss first before making an ass out of himself.

http://collegefootball.about.com/b/2011/...ivalry.htm


Michigan cancelled the 2018 and 2019 games first, anyway. Were they scared? Is that why they did it?


http://www.annarbor.com/sports/um-footba...tate-unlv/


It was a contractual matter for ND in September, 2012. The series was going to automatically roll over to another three game set if it wasn't ended when it was.

I guess that ND was "scared" when they set up series with Texas and Oklahoma, too?


Everyone knew this series would be interrupted. Like I said, Dave Brandon talked about the series being in danger back in 2011.

Michigan is just mad that ND beat them to the punch (after the 2018-19 "hiatus" by the Skunkbears). They don't like that this time, they just got canned first.

The contract was going to be canceled, either because of the B1G going to nine conference games or the ACC provisions of ND's schedules going forward or both.

One of the teams was going to cancel right before hosting a game, which would mean that team would get the last home game in the series.

They're just pissed ND did it before they could. Too damn bad.

Someone should ask Hoke why Michigan refused to play ND from 1910-41 and from 1943-1978. Was Michigan "scared"?

Hoke's bloviations are baseless and meaningless.

Besides, Michigan State has beaten Michigan 4 out of 5. Perhaps, ND is keeping the better team?

Nothing could ruin a conference's strength perception faster than having one of its two champions defeated by a non conference foe. Everybody is going on and on about 9 conference games and Strength of Schedule for the coming playoffs. All of these conferences (SEC included) will add a strong non-conference game to their schedule. But you just watch who the top two of each conference choose. They will take a fading big name, or a strong mid-range adversary for that slot, or weaker. No conference is going to want to risk the knock out punch to public perception by having one of their big dogs take it on the chin, especially early in the season.

If anyone is chicken here it is Michigan and the conference they represent. But I'm not casting a stone in their direction because there is a log in Alabama's eye as well. I doubt under the new system that either of them would risk a game against each other as they did previously. There is simply too much money riding on it. Notre Dame is on the upswing and their coach is one reason. The Irish are a team that could easily lay one on the chin of either of the Big 10's usual standard bearers. I would look for the Big 10 stalwarts to schedule a mid-level PAC team (not Oregon or Stanford).

I would look for Alabama to continue looking for an ACC challenger and not a contender. Alabama is not afraid of the opponent just of having a bad first game and ruining a season. Ditto for the Wolverines.

The PAC sent Oregon up against L.S.U. and the result was much less consideration the rest of the season. That won't happen again either.

L.S.U., Georgia, and Alabama will be much more conservative in a couple of years about who they play out of conference. Florida will always claim the F.S.U. game and South Carolina the Clemson game. I imagine Georgia will do the same with Tech.

When Saban speaks of playing only against upper tier teams I imagine the scheduling will be more carefully researched than ever before and that the Vanderbilts, Kansas's, Wake Forest's, Mississippi's, Kentucky's, Washington State's, Minnesota's, Indiana's, Purdue's, Colorado's, Utah's, B.C.'s and Illinois's of the world will have to beat the calling AD's off with a stick. Meanwhile the back offices of the Louisville's, Clemson's, Arkansas's, Oklahoma State's, N.C. State's, Texas A&M's, Washington's, and West Virginia's the phone will remain relatively quiet. They will be too dangerous for everyone's conference beauty to go out with. And it won't be about being afraid of playing them in football. It will be out of fear of missing out on a very big end of the season check.

I enjoyed reading your very insightful take. Do you see any possibility of Alabama scheduling NIU ala 2003?

Yes, but only if they think two years out that you won't have what you did last time you played. They might schedule you immediately upon a coaching change for instance. I do love it when the little guy sneaks up and has a great year. If they hadn't suffered some injuries La Monroe was well on the way to that kind of season last year.

(05-14-2013 11:20 PM)TerryD Wrote:  Sea Blue is going to disagree, but here is my viewpoint:

Michigan is a team that blocked ND from the Big 10 in the 1920s, refused to play ND for over almost 4 decades (twice!) after ND started beating them and often lobbied their Big 10 brethren to also blackball ND from their schedule.

Their former coach, Bo Schembechler, often publicly bitched and whined about ND for years.

Michigan tried to pressure ND into joining their conference, renewed its efforts to encourage its conference brethren to boycott ND, and then signaled its desire to drop ND.

Basicly a fair synopsis of the UMich treatment of NotreDame. Their similar treatment of MichSt also explains why they can't get the Big10 boycott of NotreDame either - and why the MichSt series is more dear to NotreDame than the UMich one.

UMich blocked MichSt's attempts to get in the Big10 for decades as well - fearing in-state competition. MichSt became a member of the Big10 anyway - over the objections of UMich (which actually made the Big10 "10" for the first time in a while) in the 1950s. But UMich still insisted that they not be allowed to represent the Big10 in the RoseBowl until they finished their "probationary" period. This period was instituted largely because MichSt was the far superior FB program at the time.

On the non-sports side, UMich actively worked to block MSU from becoming a "University" for decades. MichSt was formerly called Michigan State College - and Michigan Agricultural College before that. UMich argued people wouldn't be able to tell which school was actually the "U" of Michigan if MichSt was called a University too.

These are some of the reasons why NotreDame and MichSt have played each other so many times in their series. Since neither was allowed into the Big10, they naturally played each other. The two schools were the only major FB programs in the Great Lakes area that were not in the Big10 for a long while.

But what goes around comes around:

In the 1970s when the Big10 had a tie between UMich and OhioSt (who tied in their head-to-head game), it was MichSt who cast the tie-breaking vote to decide who to send to the Rose Bowl and who stayed home (back then - the Big10 sent their champion to the RoseBowl and no one else was allowed to play in a post-season bowl). MichSt voted for OhioSt.

And repeatedly under Schembechler (and since), UMich wanted a Big10 boycott of NotreDame; MichSt always decided that they'll continue to play NotreDame.

It's like Brady Hoke just trolled the entire Fighting Irish Nation. To arms and defend the Honor of the Irish because Hoke said you are chicken!

Brady Hoke is a dickhead. Call him a "troll" as a synonym if you'd like, but he is just an ass. Is he your hero now?

(05-15-2013 10:01 PM)TerryD Wrote:  Brady Hoke is a dickhead. Call him a "troll" as a synonym if you'd like, but he is just an ass. Is he your hero now?

I don't need a hero, do you?

(05-15-2013 11:16 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(05-15-2013 10:01 PM)TerryD Wrote:  Brady Hoke is a dickhead. Call him a "troll" as a synonym if you'd like, but he is just an ass. Is he your hero now?

I don't need a hero, do you?

(05-13-2013 07:37 PM)XLance Wrote:  http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...brady-hoke

What comes after the name calling....a meeting on the playground after school?

Hoke should keep his mouth shut and coach football. Let the AD's do the scheduling and things will eventually work out. This game makes too much money and gathers too much media attention for both Michigan and Notre Dame to sit in the sideline for very long.