BlazerDave
1st String
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Joined: Jan 2006
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I Root For: UAB
Location: Over the Mountain
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RE: The lottery
(05-19-2013 01:11 PM)Matrix Wrote: (05-19-2013 12:10 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote: (05-19-2013 11:49 AM)UAB Band Dad Wrote: They charge property taxes that bear some relation to reality. Alabama's 1907 Constitution was designed to do two things, write Jim Crow laws into the Constitution and to protect large landholders from property taxes. We run the state on sales taxes, which are regressive and go up and down with the economy - when the economy is bad we have to cut services just when they are needed most, throw the schools into proration, lay off state employees, freeze raises, etc. Property taxes are steady and predictable, allowing intelligent budgeting. Therefore, Alabama will not depend on them.
But look on the bright side - US Steel and Drummond Coal and the like pay low taxes! They're job creators! We won't talk about what happens to people who are not large landowners - look over there! Oooh, shiny! Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!
Actually, since our property taxes are so low, it is an incentive for US Steel, Georgia Pacific, whoever, to leave land here dormant and cheap while spending money to develop land in states where they pay more tax. We cut our own throats several ways at once. Paying 10% in sales tax is ridiculous.
I wonder what it is like to live in a state that is in the top ten for efficient state governance. I wouldn't know, myself.
Where in Alabama are the highest property taxes collected? Why it is in Mountain Brook which has taxed itself in local property taxes for its own local schools. Is this why it has the highest ranked Alabama comprehensive high school listed in the recent national rankings? They "throw money at their local schools" and look what they get in return.
That ain't all they throw money at. They make sure their children have the cleanest and enjoyable recreational facilities in and out of their schools, their baseball complex is better than some high schools or colleges. I am an umpire & basketball official there, so I see these venues regularly, kids that patronize these facilities have nothing to complain about or be ashamed of. If you're getting a better quality of life out of the money you invest in your given community, it's a win-win situation. In this day and age, unfortunately, some areas still want something for nothing. And from my vantage point, no amount of money is too much where their children's present and future are concerned.
I ain't mad at' em for that. ;-)
One year we played in the Metro Tournament over at Mt. Brook. It was machine pitch. We were in the batting cages and I mentioned how crappy their machines were and another one of our coaches said it doesn't matter to the Mt. Brook teams. They all have their own machines in their backyards.
BTW, back then their fields were awful. I think they have recently been improved.
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05-20-2013 07:52 AM |
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Matrix
Hall of Famer
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RE: The lottery
@Dave: The Metro's coming up again in the next week or two out there. The level of play goes up a notch in Little League around this time of year, hopefully, the all-star teams being put together will provide more of the same. That is some very entertaining baseball to watch &/or umpire, especially the 8-9 year olds.
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2013 09:40 AM by Matrix.)
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05-20-2013 09:40 AM |
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BAMANBLAZERFAN
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17,221
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Location: Cropwell, AL
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RE: The lottery
(05-19-2013 01:11 PM)Matrix Wrote: (05-19-2013 12:10 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote: (05-19-2013 11:49 AM)UAB Band Dad Wrote: They charge property taxes that bear some relation to reality. Alabama's 1907 Constitution was designed to do two things, write Jim Crow laws into the Constitution and to protect large landholders from property taxes. We run the state on sales taxes, which are regressive and go up and down with the economy - when the economy is bad we have to cut services just when they are needed most, throw the schools into proration, lay off state employees, freeze raises, etc. Property taxes are steady and predictable, allowing intelligent budgeting. Therefore, Alabama will not depend on them.
But look on the bright side - US Steel and Drummond Coal and the like pay low taxes! They're job creators! We won't talk about what happens to people who are not large landowners - look over there! Oooh, shiny! Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!
Actually, since our property taxes are so low, it is an incentive for US Steel, Georgia Pacific, whoever, to leave land here dormant and cheap while spending money to develop land in states where they pay more tax. We cut our own throats several ways at once. Paying 10% in sales tax is ridiculous.
I wonder what it is like to live in a state that is in the top ten for efficient state governance. I wouldn't know, myself.
Where in Alabama are the highest property taxes collected? Why it is in Mountain Brook which has taxed itself in local property taxes for its own local schools. Is this why it has the highest ranked Alabama comprehensive high school listed in the recent national rankings? They "throw money at their local schools" and look what they get in return.
That ain't all they throw money at. They make sure their children have the cleanest and enjoyable recreational facilities in and out of their schools, their baseball complex is better than some high schools or colleges. I am an umpire & basketball official there, so I see these venues regularly, kids that patronize these facilities have nothing to complain about or be ashamed of. If you're getting a better quality of life out of the money you invest in your given community, it's a win-win situation. In this day and age, unfortunately, some areas still want something for nothing. And from my vantage point, no amount of money is too much where their children's present and future are concerned.
I ain't mad at' em for that. ;-)
I'm not "mad at them" for their success in public education. I'm mad at those who continue to preach that "you can't solve education's problems by 'throwing money at them' while ignoring the reality that it works for wealthy districts like Mountain Brook, Vestavia, Homewood, Hoover et al., not to mention the Crimson Tide which annually "throws" over $164,000 per athlete at their (athletic) programs. Financial support is the MOST INDICATIVE FACTOR by which a society's concern about a problem is measured. No money= no concern.
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05-20-2013 12:12 PM |
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backyardblazer
1st String
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RE: The lottery
(05-20-2013 12:12 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote: (05-19-2013 01:11 PM)Matrix Wrote: (05-19-2013 12:10 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote: (05-19-2013 11:49 AM)UAB Band Dad Wrote: They charge property taxes that bear some relation to reality. Alabama's 1907 Constitution was designed to do two things, write Jim Crow laws into the Constitution and to protect large landholders from property taxes. We run the state on sales taxes, which are regressive and go up and down with the economy - when the economy is bad we have to cut services just when they are needed most, throw the schools into proration, lay off state employees, freeze raises, etc. Property taxes are steady and predictable, allowing intelligent budgeting. Therefore, Alabama will not depend on them.
But look on the bright side - US Steel and Drummond Coal and the like pay low taxes! They're job creators! We won't talk about what happens to people who are not large landowners - look over there! Oooh, shiny! Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!
Actually, since our property taxes are so low, it is an incentive for US Steel, Georgia Pacific, whoever, to leave land here dormant and cheap while spending money to develop land in states where they pay more tax. We cut our own throats several ways at once. Paying 10% in sales tax is ridiculous.
I wonder what it is like to live in a state that is in the top ten for efficient state governance. I wouldn't know, myself.
Where in Alabama are the highest property taxes collected? Why it is in Mountain Brook which has taxed itself in local property taxes for its own local schools. Is this why it has the highest ranked Alabama comprehensive high school listed in the recent national rankings? They "throw money at their local schools" and look what they get in return.
That ain't all they throw money at. They make sure their children have the cleanest and enjoyable recreational facilities in and out of their schools, their baseball complex is better than some high schools or colleges. I am an umpire & basketball official there, so I see these venues regularly, kids that patronize these facilities have nothing to complain about or be ashamed of. If you're getting a better quality of life out of the money you invest in your given community, it's a win-win situation. In this day and age, unfortunately, some areas still want something for nothing. And from my vantage point, no amount of money is too much where their children's present and future are concerned.
I ain't mad at' em for that. ;-)
I'm not "mad at them" for their success in public education. I'm mad at those who continue to preach that "you can't solve education's problems by 'throwing money at them' while ignoring the reality that it works for wealthy districts like Mountain Brook, Vestavia, Homewood, Hoover et al., not to mention the Crimson Tide which annually "throws" over $164,000 per athlete at their (athletic) programs. Financial support is the MOST INDICATIVE FACTOR by which a society's concern about a problem is measured. No money= no concern.
I think saying that money is the reason for the success of Mtn. Brook, Vestavia, Homewood, and Hoover is a little short sighted. While the money helps, there is a great deal more than just money that goes into these students' success.
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05-20-2013 12:17 PM |
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BAMANBLAZERFAN
Hall of Famer
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RE: The lottery
(05-20-2013 12:17 PM)backyardblazer Wrote: (05-20-2013 12:12 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote: (05-19-2013 01:11 PM)Matrix Wrote: (05-19-2013 12:10 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote: (05-19-2013 11:49 AM)UAB Band Dad Wrote: They charge property taxes that bear some relation to reality. Alabama's 1907 Constitution was designed to do two things, write Jim Crow laws into the Constitution and to protect large landholders from property taxes. We run the state on sales taxes, which are regressive and go up and down with the economy - when the economy is bad we have to cut services just when they are needed most, throw the schools into proration, lay off state employees, freeze raises, etc. Property taxes are steady and predictable, allowing intelligent budgeting. Therefore, Alabama will not depend on them.
But look on the bright side - US Steel and Drummond Coal and the like pay low taxes! They're job creators! We won't talk about what happens to people who are not large landowners - look over there! Oooh, shiny! Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!
Actually, since our property taxes are so low, it is an incentive for US Steel, Georgia Pacific, whoever, to leave land here dormant and cheap while spending money to develop land in states where they pay more tax. We cut our own throats several ways at once. Paying 10% in sales tax is ridiculous.
I wonder what it is like to live in a state that is in the top ten for efficient state governance. I wouldn't know, myself.
Where in Alabama are the highest property taxes collected? Why it is in Mountain Brook which has taxed itself in local property taxes for its own local schools. Is this why it has the highest ranked Alabama comprehensive high school listed in the recent national rankings? They "throw money at their local schools" and look what they get in return.
That ain't all they throw money at. They make sure their children have the cleanest and enjoyable recreational facilities in and out of their schools, their baseball complex is better than some high schools or colleges. I am an umpire & basketball official there, so I see these venues regularly, kids that patronize these facilities have nothing to complain about or be ashamed of. If you're getting a better quality of life out of the money you invest in your given community, it's a win-win situation. In this day and age, unfortunately, some areas still want something for nothing. And from my vantage point, no amount of money is too much where their children's present and future are concerned.
I ain't mad at' em for that. ;-)
I'm not "mad at them" for their success in public education. I'm mad at those who continue to preach that "you can't solve education's problems by 'throwing money at them' while ignoring the reality that it works for wealthy districts like Mountain Brook, Vestavia, Homewood, Hoover et al., not to mention the Crimson Tide which annually "throws" over $164,000 per athlete at their (athletic) programs. Financial support is the MOST INDICATIVE FACTOR by which a society's concern about a problem is measured. No money= no concern.
I think saying that money is the reason for the success of Mtn. Brook, Vestavia, Homewood, and Hoover is a little short sighted. While the money helps, there is a great deal more than just money that goes into these students' success.
True enough, but the financial backing illustrates the existence of those other intangibles of which you speak. "Money is not everything" is true, but "money is nothing" is a lie. There is not a single public entity that I can think of that is successful without adequate funding to back it up. (Minimal survival funding is not adequate funding.)
My brother's 3 kids and my 3 stepchildren attended MB schools. Today, the 5 who completed MBHS are ALL making 6 figure incomes. It was truly money well invested.
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05-20-2013 12:31 PM |
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Matrix
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RE: The lottery
(05-20-2013 12:12 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote: (05-19-2013 01:11 PM)Matrix Wrote: (05-19-2013 12:10 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote: (05-19-2013 11:49 AM)UAB Band Dad Wrote: They charge property taxes that bear some relation to reality. Alabama's 1907 Constitution was designed to do two things, write Jim Crow laws into the Constitution and to protect large landholders from property taxes. We run the state on sales taxes, which are regressive and go up and down with the economy - when the economy is bad we have to cut services just when they are needed most, throw the schools into proration, lay off state employees, freeze raises, etc. Property taxes are steady and predictable, allowing intelligent budgeting. Therefore, Alabama will not depend on them.
But look on the bright side - US Steel and Drummond Coal and the like pay low taxes! They're job creators! We won't talk about what happens to people who are not large landowners - look over there! Oooh, shiny! Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!
Actually, since our property taxes are so low, it is an incentive for US Steel, Georgia Pacific, whoever, to leave land here dormant and cheap while spending money to develop land in states where they pay more tax. We cut our own throats several ways at once. Paying 10% in sales tax is ridiculous.
I wonder what it is like to live in a state that is in the top ten for efficient state governance. I wouldn't know, myself.
Where in Alabama are the highest property taxes collected? Why it is in Mountain Brook which has taxed itself in local property taxes for its own local schools. Is this why it has the highest ranked Alabama comprehensive high school listed in the recent national rankings? They "throw money at their local schools" and look what they get in return.
That ain't all they throw money at. They make sure their children have the cleanest and enjoyable recreational facilities in and out of their schools, their baseball complex is better than some high schools or colleges. I am an umpire & basketball official there, so I see these venues regularly, kids that patronize these facilities have nothing to complain about or be ashamed of. If you're getting a better quality of life out of the money you invest in your given community, it's a win-win situation. In this day and age, unfortunately, some areas still want something for nothing. And from my vantage point, no amount of money is too much where their children's present and future are concerned.
I ain't mad at' em for that. ;-)
I'm not "mad at them" for their success in public education. I'm mad at those who continue to preach that "you can't solve education's problems by 'throwing money at them' while ignoring the reality that it works for wealthy districts like Mountain Brook, Vestavia, Homewood, Hoover et al., not to mention the Crimson Tide which annually "throws" over $164,000 per athlete at their (athletic) programs. Financial support is the MOST INDICATIVE FACTOR by which a society's concern about a problem is measured. No money= no concern.
Money talks, bull**** walks! ;-)
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05-20-2013 12:54 PM |
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BAMANBLAZERFAN
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RE: The lottery
Money talks - loudly and in all languages - while the Alabama government walks - slowly (maybe even backwardly) - into the 21st century.
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05-20-2013 01:07 PM |
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blazers9911
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RE: The lottery
(05-19-2013 04:07 PM)LairDweller Wrote: And once you have studies that study $600 million, I'll agree with you. Extrapolating that data out that far is irrelevant...
When people are throwing out statistics, I usually see them quoting the Kentucky/Vandy/Pitt study, where they separated winners into the "big win" and "modest win" classes. The "big win" category was considered winning $50,000 to $150,000. Not exactly the same as $600 million
http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/11/28/500-...whittaker/
Antoine Walker, Allen Iverson.
It's really just as hard to blow through $100 million as it is $250-$300 million. You are blowing a lot of money on a lot of things to even get close to spending that kind of money. I understand this is hard to fathom, but far more often than not, people who fall into this type of money wind up losing it all.
At $200 million, you would make $6 million a year just by putting your money somewhere at 3% per year. If I won that kind of money, I'd like to think at least 75% of it would still be around when I died.
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05-20-2013 01:39 PM |
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LairDweller
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RE: The lottery
(05-20-2013 01:39 PM)blazers9911 Wrote: (05-19-2013 04:07 PM)LairDweller Wrote: And once you have studies that study $600 million, I'll agree with you. Extrapolating that data out that far is irrelevant...
When people are throwing out statistics, I usually see them quoting the Kentucky/Vandy/Pitt study, where they separated winners into the "big win" and "modest win" classes. The "big win" category was considered winning $50,000 to $150,000. Not exactly the same as $600 million
http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/11/28/500-...whittaker/
Antoine Walker, Allen Iverson.
It's really just as hard to blow through $100 million as it is $250-$300 million. You are blowing a lot of money on a lot of things to even get close to spending that kind of money. I understand this is hard to fathom, but far more often than not, people who fall into this type of money wind up losing it all.
At $200 million, you would make $6 million a year just by putting your money somewhere at 3% per year. If I won that kind of money, I'd like to think at least 75% of it would still be around when I died.
So, 75% of people (thats how i would define "Far more often than not) who come into $300 million lose it? I'm gonna wave the BS flag. People say that all these huge winners go broke, but then they always tell the story of the same 1 guy.
If this phenomenon of $300 million dollar winners going broke is a well accepted fact, I'd love to see the data that supports it
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05-20-2013 02:06 PM |
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blazers9911
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RE: The lottery
How many winners of $300 million+ have there been?(18:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lottery_jackpot_records) It's hard to compile data without first having a valid sample size. I'm not going to sit here and say ever winner of $300 million+ will spend it all, but I also don't believe nobody else on that list will do so.(it's far too soon to determine what will happen to most of the winners on this list)
Again, I understand that it is hard to believe that this will happen, but time after time, it has happened. It's a boatload of money(although again, not nearly as much as people think; take about 55-60% of the cash value) but somebody with the business sense of Bill Gates isn't generally winning this money.
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05-20-2013 02:53 PM |
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LairDweller
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RE: The lottery
(05-20-2013 02:53 PM)blazers9911 Wrote: How many winners of $300 million+ have there been?(18:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lottery_jackpot_records) It's hard to compile data without first having a valid sample size. I'm not going to sit here and say ever winner of $300 million+ will spend it all, but I also don't believe nobody else on that list will do so.(it's far too soon to determine what will happen to most of the winners on this list)
Again, I understand that it is hard to believe that this will happen, but time after time, it has happened. It's a boatload of money(although again, not nearly as much as people think; take about 55-60% of the cash value) but somebody with the business sense of Bill Gates isn't generally winning this money.
thats sort of my point. i believe that, more often than not, somebody that wins over $300million will live comfortably for the rest of his life. that is purely my opinion, not at all based on scientific data.
i think its reasonable for somebody to disagree...again, based on their opinion of the majority of people being morons (which i dont debate).
however, when people say that my opinion is obviously wrong, based on "studies" or "research," well, i dont think its unreasonable to expect them to back it up with actual data. however, they typically do so by mentioning one well done study of people winning less than $150K, or they point out that 1 guy as an example...yes, i'll debate that
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05-20-2013 03:41 PM |
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blazerwkr
Heisman
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05-20-2013 04:22 PM |
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BAMANBLAZERFAN
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RE: The lottery
The question in Alabama is whether or not a state lottery for our state is still a useful and practical idea. When first proposed, we would have been the 3rd or 4th state in our region to begin one. Today we would be about the last and would face competition from well established gaming activities all around us whose "growing pains" are way behind them. MS has now completely recovered from coastal and river damages from storms and floods of the past few years. I don't know the logistics involved in starting a lottery or building casinos at the same level as those already operating around us, but that is what we would have to do if we expect it to be revenue productive for state government. Has that "ship" already sailed?
Alabama used to have one horse track and 2 or 3 live action dog tracks. Now it has essentially one live dog track (B'ham) unless Victoryland is still running live dogs. Greenetrack gave up to all simulcasting TV racing long ago. Except for its minimal level wage jobs, the tracks today are essentially state tax revenue worthless as important revenue streams. The only major league operations left are the Las Vegas mentored Creek Indian casinos which pay no state taxes. Is there still talk in the Anniston-Gadsden area about the Cherokees building a casino in that area? Alabama seems as far as it has ever been from making state revenue for ANY purposes from any gaming operations of any kind. We are just stuck helping those other state's schools become more modern while the majority of our state schools watch with emptier pockets every year.
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05-20-2013 04:31 PM |
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LightEmUp70
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RE: The lottery
(05-20-2013 03:41 PM)LairDweller Wrote: (05-20-2013 02:53 PM)blazers9911 Wrote: How many winners of $300 million+ have there been?(18:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lottery_jackpot_records) It's hard to compile data without first having a valid sample size. I'm not going to sit here and say ever winner of $300 million+ will spend it all, but I also don't believe nobody else on that list will do so.(it's far too soon to determine what will happen to most of the winners on this list)
Again, I understand that it is hard to believe that this will happen, but time after time, it has happened. It's a boatload of money(although again, not nearly as much as people think; take about 55-60% of the cash value) but somebody with the business sense of Bill Gates isn't generally winning this money.
thats sort of my point. i believe that, more often than not, somebody that wins over $300million will live comfortably for the rest of his life. that is purely my opinion, not at all based on scientific data.
i think its reasonable for somebody to disagree...again, based on their opinion of the majority of people being morons (which i dont debate).
however, when people say that my opinion is obviously wrong, based on "studies" or "research," well, i dont think its unreasonable to expect them to back it up with actual data. however, they typically do so by mentioning one well done study of people winning less than $150K, or they point out that 1 guy as an example...yes, i'll debate that
The studies of the $150,000 show trends that the amount of money doesn't really matter. There is anecdotal evidence of more than just the "1 guy" which isn't scientific, but when added to the previous studies plus well documented cases of this happening to athletes at the end of their careers (which is very similar to winning the lottery in terms of life changing financial events) you can make a good case.
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05-20-2013 05:47 PM |
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LairDweller
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RE: The lottery
I don't disagree that you can make a pretty decent case...but the case is far from rock solid
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05-20-2013 05:56 PM |
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LightEmUp70
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RE: The lottery
No, more like well-prepared foundation
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2013 10:01 PM by LightEmUp70.)
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05-20-2013 10:01 PM |
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BAMANBLAZERFAN
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RE: The lottery
As with any stress that can happen to a person, sudden, great wealth is not that much different from other more "everyday" happenings. There is just less understanding among those around you about why that particular stress is critical. It's like Christmas coming suddenly and unexpectedly with no "buildup" to prepare a person for it. Everyone expects Christmas to be one undeviating level of fun and happiness as they expect to happen with sudden great wealth. A lot of how each person can individually handle either is based on how well they have been taught in life to handle sudden change.
For most of us, life's sudden changes are usually not blessings. An unexpected death in the family, a terrible storm like we have just seen in Moore, OK that wipes your property slate clean, a divorce you did not see coming, a child with a terrible disease or or an accident that leaves one with long term disabilities. We don't often have sudden calls that a relative left us wealthy or Publisher's Clearing House shows up at your door. Having your world firmly under your feet is essential to how you handle the wonderful &/or the terrible changes that cause stresses that others around you may not understand. Keep in mind, those who handle the stress successfully don't get the publicity of those for whom it destroys them. It is sort of like the successful "Hollywood" marriage - it doesn't fill the "Access Hollywood" time slot like a good old messy "Hollywood" scandalous divorce.
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05-23-2013 05:19 PM |
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scales
Special Teams
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RE: The lottery
Everybody in this forum ******* about taxes.
Lottery tickets are a tax on stupid people.
If you bought some tickets = you are stupid.
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05-23-2013 10:21 PM |
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LairDweller
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RE: The lottery
(05-23-2013 10:21 PM)scales Wrote: Everybody in this forum ******* about taxes.
Lottery tickets are a tax on stupid people.
If you bought some tickets = you are stupid.
Fortunately, being stupid has served me pretty well in life. Thank goodness even some of us stupid folks manage to get by
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05-24-2013 06:53 AM |
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BAMANBLAZERFAN
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RE: The lottery
(05-23-2013 10:21 PM)scales Wrote: Everybody in this forum ******* about taxes.
Lottery tickets are a tax on stupid people.
If you bought some tickets = you are stupid.
Since our state specializes in taxing the poor most heavily, I wonder how they missed this one. Our state income tax starts at only $12,000 per year (until recently it started at $4000) at the same rate as those above them. Yes, poor people, along with the rest of us, play the lottery and go to the various casinos in Alabama - which pay no state taxes. They also are more dependent on credit cards since cash flow is a problem for paying for necessities and a few luxuries. Most do not buy enough tickets or go so often to casinos that they endanger their relative wealth. They do it as recreation which costs money no matter how you "recreate" (how many tickets could one buy for the costs of taking a family to a movie theater?), and hope to hit the jackpot that will change their lives.
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05-24-2013 11:36 AM |
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