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Will autonomy/Division IV keep the Big Conferences from poaching each other?
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jrj84105 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Will autonomy/Division IV keep the Big Conferences from poaching each other?
(06-19-2014 07:38 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Oh, and just to make sure this imbecilic conversation ceases and wilkie the troll is shut down, here is your link.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...0-12-or-14

Wow, how tough was that? Stop being lazy. Good ole troll Wilkie putting his foot in his mouth again.
That piece was from before completeion of the BigXII's media deal, so it was entirely speculative at that point and is in direct contradition to statements from people like AD Luck such as "Our denominator is 10; The more you split it up ... I don't think we can find a partner who's available right now to stay at the value we have (per school) or let alone increase what we have. That's the consensus we have (staying at 10)."

Now either the final version of the BigXII contract differed with respects to the in progress version which was the subject of Dodd's commentary, or guys like Luck are being intentionally misleading in their representation of the contract.
06-20-2014 01:51 PM
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1845 Bear Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Will autonomy/Division IV keep the Big Conferences from poaching each other?
Rarely do the Aggie and I agree but there doesn't seem to be any conspiracy against UConn. The closest thing to that with any plausibility in my mind is the rumor that the ACC became hesitant after the lawsuit in 2003 and even that isn't approaching any conspiracy.

Uconn has some good strengths:

Hoops royalty
Large in-state market
Flagship
Solid academically
Solid interest in NYC metro
Good stadium in spite of location
Best budget in the G5


The flaws?

- VERY young FBS football. 10-12 years unless I am mistaken. That gives no real brand value other than how the team is doing in a 2-3 year trend. Even SMU, Houston, and Navy have historical teams several decades old to help bolster viewers and UConn (much like Marshall, UCF, USF, Boise, and Nevada) really don't have much there.

- Football has been pretty weak outside of a good run from 2007-2010. Football prints the money for the league tv deals and it's an issue here compounded by a young brand.

- The 2 power leagues that are close by (B1G and ACC) each already added teams in the area to help them in the NY/New England area which minimizes the benefit of UConn's addition. There is value but after other teams cut into it, does it make more for the league?

I like UConn but it isn't some conspiracy.
06-20-2014 02:01 PM
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1845 Bear Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Will autonomy/Division IV keep the Big Conferences from poaching each other?
(06-20-2014 01:51 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  
(06-19-2014 07:38 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Oh, and just to make sure this imbecilic conversation ceases and wilkie the troll is shut down, here is your link.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...0-12-or-14

Wow, how tough was that? Stop being lazy. Good ole troll Wilkie putting his foot in his mouth again.
That piece was from before completeion of the BigXII's media deal, so it was entirely speculative at that point and is in direct contradition to statements from people like AD Luck such as "Our denominator is 10; The more you split it up ... I don't think we can find a partner who's available right now to stay at the value we have (per school) or let alone increase what we have. That's the consensus we have (staying at 10)."

Now either the final version of the BigXII contract differed with respects to the in progress version which was the subject of Dodd's commentary, or guys like Luck are being intentionally misleading in their representation of the contract.

Do we have the quotes from Luck? He may have been referring to the Sugar Bowl and Playoff money (as in not just TV value) which would not pro rata increase with expansion.
06-20-2014 02:04 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Will autonomy/Division IV keep the Big Conferences from poaching each other?
(06-20-2014 02:01 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  - VERY young FBS football. 10-12 years unless I am mistaken. That gives no real brand value other than how the team is doing in a 2-3 year trend. Even SMU, Houston, and Navy have historical teams several decades old to help bolster viewers and UConn (much like Marshall, UCF, USF, Boise, and Nevada) really don't have much there.

Very young. UConn's first season in FBS/I-A football was 2000.

Florida State's first football season was 1947. AFAIK, they have the youngest FBS/I-A program in any P5 conference.
06-20-2014 02:18 PM
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DefCONNOne Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Will autonomy/Division IV keep the Big Conferences from poaching each other?
(06-20-2014 02:01 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  Rarely do the Aggie and I agree but there doesn't seem to be any conspiracy against UConn. The closest thing to that with any plausibility in my mind is the rumor that the ACC became hesitant after the lawsuit in 2003 and even that isn't approaching any conspiracy.

Uconn has some good strengths:

Hoops royalty
Large in-state market
Flagship
Solid academically
Solid interest in NYC metro
Good stadium in spite of location
Best budget in the G5


The flaws?

- VERY young FBS football. 10-12 years unless I am mistaken. That gives no real brand value other than how the team is doing in a 2-3 year trend. Even SMU, Houston, and Navy have historical teams several decades old to help bolster viewers and UConn (much like Marshall, UCF, USF, Boise, and Nevada) really don't have much there.

- Football has been pretty weak outside of a good run from 2007-2010. Football prints the money for the league tv deals and it's an issue here compounded by a young brand.

- The 2 power leagues that are close by (B1G and ACC) each already added teams in the area to help them in the NY/New England area which minimizes the benefit of UConn's addition. There is value but after other teams cut into it, does it make more for the league?

I like UConn but it isn't some conspiracy.

Aww.......that's adorable. 03-cloud9 The 2 P5 fans are trying to perpetuate the lie that UCONN isn't being held down by ESPiN. Hey, what conference was UCONN slated for, twice, before a certain school (aided by ESPiN, btw) conspired to squash their inclusion? Just b/c an SEC fan and a Big 12 fan repeat a lie, multiple times, doesn't make it true!!!!!!!
06-20-2014 02:19 PM
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1845 Bear Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Will autonomy/Division IV keep the Big Conferences from poaching each other?
(06-20-2014 02:19 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  
(06-20-2014 02:01 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  Rarely do the Aggie and I agree but there doesn't seem to be any conspiracy against UConn. The closest thing to that with any plausibility in my mind is the rumor that the ACC became hesitant after the lawsuit in 2003 and even that isn't approaching any conspiracy.

Uconn has some good strengths:

Hoops royalty
Large in-state market
Flagship
Solid academically
Solid interest in NYC metro
Good stadium in spite of location
Best budget in the G5


The flaws?

- VERY young FBS football. 10-12 years unless I am mistaken. That gives no real brand value other than how the team is doing in a 2-3 year trend. Even SMU, Houston, and Navy have historical teams several decades old to help bolster viewers and UConn (much like Marshall, UCF, USF, Boise, and Nevada) really don't have much there.

- Football has been pretty weak outside of a good run from 2007-2010. Football prints the money for the league tv deals and it's an issue here compounded by a young brand.

- The 2 power leagues that are close by (B1G and ACC) each already added teams in the area to help them in the NY/New England area which minimizes the benefit of UConn's addition. There is value but after other teams cut into it, does it make more for the league?

I like UConn but it isn't some conspiracy.

Aww.......that's adorable. 03-cloud9 The 2 P5 fans are trying to perpetuate the lie that UCONN isn't being held down by ESPiN. Hey, what conference was UCONN slated for, twice, before a certain school (aided by ESPiN, btw) conspired to squash their inclusion? Just b/c an SEC fan and a Big 12 fan repeat a lie, multiple times, doesn't make it true!!!!!!!

What on earth are you talking about? What shred of evidence supports your claim?
06-20-2014 02:25 PM
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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Will autonomy/Division IV keep the Big Conferences from poaching each other?
If there was evidence then it wouldnt be a conspiracy....right?
06-20-2014 02:36 PM
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jrj84105 Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Will autonomy/Division IV keep the Big Conferences from poaching each other?
(06-20-2014 02:04 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  Do we have the quotes from Luck? He may have been referring to the Sugar Bowl and Playoff money (as in not just TV value) which would not pro rata increase with expansion.

The quotes are from the same recent ESPN BigXII expansion piece where Luck talked about the near merger of the BigXII/BigEast
http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...-expansion
06-20-2014 03:15 PM
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1845 Bear Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Will autonomy/Division IV keep the Big Conferences from poaching each other?
(06-20-2014 03:15 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  
(06-20-2014 02:04 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  Do we have the quotes from Luck? He may have been referring to the Sugar Bowl and Playoff money (as in not just TV value) which would not pro rata increase with expansion.

The quotes are from the same recent ESPN BigXII expansion piece where Luck talked about the near merger of the BigXII/BigEast
http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...-expansion

The relevant quotes are in bold and don't specify tv contract value. I don't see it at odds with the tv being a pro rata share.

Quote:Luck added that there are no "available teams" -- schools from the non-Power Five leagues -- that would add value to the Big 12's per-school revenue.

At the Big 12's annual spring meetings last week, the league announced a record $220.1 million in distribution revenue, earning the Big 12 more per school in revenue than the SEC and ACC.

"Our denominator is 10," Luck said. "The more you split it up ... I don't think we can find a partner who's available right now to stay at the value we have (per school) or let alone increase what we have. That's the consensus we have (staying at 10)."

Taken in concert with the the quote below it seems to be talking about total league revenue, not just tv.

Quote:The new Big 12 TV deal is expected to be announced any day, perhaps here this week as a celebration of the league's new-found strength. Within that deal is a clause that will give any new expansion candidates the same money as the current members (estimated to be at least $20 million per year).

One industry source said that number applies whether the Big 12 invites, "Appalachian State or Florida State." And according to another industry source, ESPN wouldn't stand in the way of Big 12 expansion even after negotiating a new deal with the ACC.

With 91 million over the life of the playoff and sugar bowl deals being divided more ways it still could cost the league money to add teams unless we just get some crazy blockbuster deal on a title game.
06-20-2014 03:29 PM
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jrj84105 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Will autonomy/Division IV keep the Big Conferences from poaching each other?
(06-20-2014 03:29 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  The relevant quotes are in bold and don't specify tv contract value. I don't see it at odds with the tv being a pro rata share.

With 91 million over the life of the playoff and sugar bowl deals being divided more ways it still could cost the league money to add teams unless we just get some crazy blockbuster deal on a title game.

I think this issue is abundantly unclear and would be worthy of some informed discussion (which I admittedly can't provide). To cover spreading a $91 million paycheck 12 ways instead of 10 would require the CCG to bring in 18.2 million. That's a pretty modest sum and well in line with what the other conferences are receiving for their CCGs.

If the TV contract increases with expansion as stated by Dodds, then there really isn't a fiscal barrier to expansion which has been the party line coming from the BigXii in recent months. So either the BigXii is putting up imaginary walls or the guarantee for increased revenue with expansion didn't work its way into the final contract.
(This post was last modified: 06-20-2014 06:13 PM by jrj84105.)
06-20-2014 06:12 PM
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1845 Bear Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Will autonomy/Division IV keep the Big Conferences from poaching each other?
(06-20-2014 06:12 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  
(06-20-2014 03:29 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  The relevant quotes are in bold and don't specify tv contract value. I don't see it at odds with the tv being a pro rata share.

With 91 million over the life of the playoff and sugar bowl deals being divided more ways it still could cost the league money to add teams unless we just get some crazy blockbuster deal on a title game.

I think this issue is abundantly unclear and would be worthy of some informed discussion (which I admittedly can't provide). To cover spreading a $91 million paycheck 12 ways instead of 10 would require the CCG to bring in 18.2 million. That's a pretty modest sum and well in line with what the other conferences are receiving for their CCGs.

If the TV contract increases with expansion as stated by Dodds, then there really isn't a fiscal barrier to expansion which has been the party line coming from the BigXii in recent months. So either the BigXii is putting up imaginary walls or the guarantee for increased revenue with expansion didn't work its way into the final contract.
1- While that 91 million is the big ticket item going forward the Big 12 brought in revenue from other sources. 15mm from non-bcs bowls, 30mm+ from the NCAA, and 6mm+ from league event ticket sales if the 2011-12 990 filing can be used as a reasonable estimate.


2- You assume that you'd get 18.2 million though for a title game. The Big Ten got in the 20-25 million range but the PAC only got 14 million for their 2011 game.
(This post was last modified: 06-20-2014 07:01 PM by 1845 Bear.)
06-20-2014 06:42 PM
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jrj84105 Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Will autonomy/Division IV keep the Big Conferences from poaching each other?
(06-20-2014 06:42 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  
(06-20-2014 06:12 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  
(06-20-2014 03:29 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  The relevant quotes are in bold and don't specify tv contract value. I don't see it at odds with the tv being a pro rata share.

With 91 million over the life of the playoff and sugar bowl deals being divided more ways it still could cost the league money to add teams unless we just get some crazy blockbuster deal on a title game.

I think this issue is abundantly unclear and would be worthy of some informed discussion (which I admittedly can't provide). To cover spreading a $91 million paycheck 12 ways instead of 10 would require the CCG to bring in 18.2 million. That's a pretty modest sum and well in line with what the other conferences are receiving for their CCGs.

If the TV contract increases with expansion as stated by Dodds, then there really isn't a fiscal barrier to expansion which has been the party line coming from the BigXii in recent months. So either the BigXii is putting up imaginary walls or the guarantee for increased revenue with expansion didn't work its way into the final contract.
1- While that 91 million is the big ticket item going forward the Big 12 brought in revenue from other sources. 15mm from non-bcs bowls, 30mm+ from the NCAA, and 6mm+ from league event ticket sales if the 2011-12 990 filing can be used as a reasonable estimate.


2- You assume that you'd get 18.2 million though for a title game. The Big Ten got in the 20-25 million range but the PAC only got 14 million for their 2011 game.
I said that 18.2 is in line with the other conferences, and it appears to be. I think the number of 20 million has been thrown around for a BigXii CCG. The BigXII had a pretty successful year in 2011-2012, but it's pretty reasonable to think that two expansion schools would account for 1 more bowl eligible team, and a few additional NCAA credits. Adding those additional revenue streams means the CCG plus any additional bowl/NCAA revenue would have to come in closer to 28 million. That's making the flawed assumption that the new schools would demand full payouts in year 1. Any G5 school would gladly come in for an escalating revenue deal (5,10,15,20 million for both would give a 60+ million buffer to insulate the other members against losses for the second half of the GoR). Still, either guaranteed payouts with expansion are false, or the BigXII simply doesn't like the available candidates as revenue neutral additions.
06-21-2014 09:37 AM
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