(05-05-2013 10:25 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-05-2013 09:47 AM)bluesox Wrote:  I don't think a neat 4x16 is really possible, too many tribes. The closet might be:

sec- WVU
big- KU, Missouri
Pac- Tex, TTEch, OU, OK state
ACC- Uconn, cincy, gtown

Thus, you got 2 at 16, 1 at 14 and 1 at 18. I could see the acc add temple + a football only instead of gtown and focus on hoops and markets. I think its more likely the pac would jump to 20 rather than 16 though. I also like the acc jumping to 20 with non-football school's in gtown, st john's, ND and nova. Yet, getting the catholic hoops school's probably doesn't happen now.

This is what the "it is inevitable that we will have 4 x 16 or 3 x 20 and breakaway" crowd never seemed to understand.

Many people favor local, parochial interests and regional, small "fiefdoms" over large, cobbled together entities. There are too many local/regional interests that compete and work against such a consolidation.

Whether it is the Roman Empire or the USSR or some dream of numbers crunchers proclaiming that super conferences are "done deals", many people favor smaller entities that they can control and/or feel more comfortable in.

People are largely still tribal. There are "warlords" who want to control a piece of the action. They want to be big fish in smaller ponds.

There are too many competing interests for the conference consolidation that Expansionistas favor to occur, despite the projected TV dollars.

That is my lowly opinion as a sports fan, history buff and person who has observed human nature for over fifty some years.

Yup, just don't see Texas ever leaving the Big XII which in turns mean Oklahoma not going anywhere and the same goes for UNC/FSU and the ACC.

You may see a UConn, Cincinnati, BYU, USF & UCF move up but that is about it.

(05-05-2013 08:36 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(05-05-2013 12:41 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  The ACC will be fine, and I am glad this GoR has settled things for the time being. Next serve...Big XII. Ball is in your court. The ACC schools have apparently blown off the B1G and the SEC. Speaks volumes to me. How much loyalty does OU and Texas really have?

+1

At 10 teams the B12 has become the AQ conference that much like the Big East in the last cycle is 2-4 members smaller than the other AQ's and without ability to raid the other 4 AQ leagues.

B1G: Kansas, Oklahoma
PAC: Texas, Tech, Baylor, TCU
SEC: K-State, Oklahoma St
ACC: West Virginia, Cincinnati
AAC: Iowa State

We are getting pretty close to the days of 4 AQ leagues of 16, IMO.

No we aren't. Why would conferences add teams with no value just to get to 16 teams? Does the NCAA have some symmetry rule they are about to pass?

(05-05-2013 10:35 AM)JMUDuke25 Wrote:  

(05-05-2013 08:36 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(05-05-2013 12:41 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  The ACC will be fine, and I am glad this GoR has settled things for the time being. Next serve...Big XII. Ball is in your court. The ACC schools have apparently blown off the B1G and the SEC. Speaks volumes to me. How much loyalty does OU and Texas really have?

+1

At 10 teams the B12 has become the AQ conference that much like the Big East in the last cycle is 2-4 members smaller than the other AQ's and without ability to raid the other 4 AQ leagues.

B1G: Kansas, Oklahoma
PAC: Texas, Tech, Baylor, TCU
SEC: K-State, Oklahoma St
ACC: West Virginia, Cincinnati
AAC: Iowa State

We are getting pretty close to the days of 4 AQ leagues of 16, IMO.

No we aren't. Why would conferences add teams with no value just to get to 16 teams? Does the NCAA have some symmetry rule they are about to pass?

Its more like the B1G will start the next war by pulling in schools they want and every other conference will know at that point that its game on.

The ACC I'm pretty sure would take in WVU in a heartbeat if available. The SEC I doubt it.

As to 16, I think its a nice reasonable number. Could the B1G move to 20 teams....I guess but that is too unwieldy to manage, IMO.

Easier to schedule football w/ 16 teams... that's about it. Not a HUGE motivation.

I wouldn't declare the ACC a success yet. It's always been the #6 FB conference. Let's see what happens. They may still be the #6 conference.

But if you judge success to be simple survival (not getting picked apart), I guess the ACC has been successful so far.

(05-05-2013 11:12 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  I wouldn't declare the ACC a success yet. It's always been the #6 FB conference. Let's see what happens. They may still be the #6 conference.

But if you judge success to be simple survival (not getting picked apart), I guess the ACC has been successful so far.

Yes, the ACC has been the #6 rated conference the past two years, but that hardly constitutes "always been".

Unless, of course, you are two years old?

Anyway, the historical Sagarin ratings since the ACC went to 12 teams in 2005.

2005 - #2
2006 - #1
2007 - #5
2008 - #3
2009 - #4
2010 - #4
2011 - #7 (Indies as a group, not a true conference ranked higher)
2012 - #7 (Indies as a group, not a true conference ranked higher)

Cheers,
Neil

The is no way the AAC survives if the B12 does not.

There is no scenario where WVU goes to the ACC. The ACC burned that bridge. WVU poured gas on the ashes and burned it again. Pitt, Syracuse and Louisville bombed whatever remained.

(05-05-2013 10:25 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-05-2013 09:47 AM)bluesox Wrote:  I don't think a neat 4x16 is really possible, too many tribes. The closet might be:

sec- WVU
big- KU, Missouri
Pac- Tex, TTEch, OU, OK state
ACC- Uconn, cincy, gtown

Thus, you got 2 at 16, 1 at 14 and 1 at 18. I could see the acc add temple + a football only instead of gtown and focus on hoops and markets. I think its more likely the pac would jump to 20 rather than 16 though. I also like the acc jumping to 20 with non-football school's in gtown, st john's, ND and nova. Yet, getting the catholic hoops school's probably doesn't happen now.

This is what the "it is inevitable that we will have 4 x 16 or 3 x 20 and breakaway" crowd never seemed to understand.

Many people favor local, parochial interests and regional, small "fiefdoms" over large, cobbled together entities. There are too many local/regional interests that compete and work against such a consolidation.

Whether it is the Roman Empire, British Empire, the USSR or some dream of numbers crunchers proclaiming that super conferences are "done deals", many people favor smaller entities that they can control and/or feel more comfortable in, even if others think that the locals are "better off" in the larger organizations.

People are largely still tribal. There are "warlords" who want to control a piece of the action. They want to be big fish in smaller ponds.

There are too many competing interests for the conference consolidation that Expansionistas favor to occur, despite the projected TV dollars.

That is my lowly opinion as a sports fan, history buff and person who has observed human nature for over fifty some years.

Why the SEC give up Missouri for wvu?

There is no "giving up Missouri". There is Missouri making one of two choices, stay in the SEC or leave should they decide they actually want to do that. The SEC places no leashes upon it's schools, atleast not yet.

(05-05-2013 10:50 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(05-05-2013 10:35 AM)JMUDuke25 Wrote:  

(05-05-2013 08:36 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(05-05-2013 12:41 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  The ACC will be fine, and I am glad this GoR has settled things for the time being. Next serve...Big XII. Ball is in your court. The ACC schools have apparently blown off the B1G and the SEC. Speaks volumes to me. How much loyalty does OU and Texas really have?

+1

At 10 teams the B12 has become the AQ conference that much like the Big East in the last cycle is 2-4 members smaller than the other AQ's and without ability to raid the other 4 AQ leagues.

B1G: Kansas, Oklahoma
PAC: Texas, Tech, Baylor, TCU
SEC: K-State, Oklahoma St
ACC: West Virginia, Cincinnati
AAC: Iowa State

We are getting pretty close to the days of 4 AQ leagues of 16, IMO.

No we aren't. Why would conferences add teams with no value just to get to 16 teams? Does the NCAA have some symmetry rule they are about to pass?

Its more like the B1G will start the next war by pulling in schools they want and every other conference will know at that point that its game on.

The ACC I'm pretty sure would take in WVU in a heartbeat if available. The SEC I doubt it.

As to 16, I think its a nice reasonable number. Could the B1G move to 20 teams....I guess but that is too unwieldy to manage, IMO.

The ACC has turned down WVU multiple times. What makes you sure they would take them?

Why do people go on the internet and make stuff up?

Barring a Big12 breakdown, the only schools that have an all sports chance into the ACC are Cincinnati, UConn. The other chances would be Maryland staying or Navy in for Football only to offset ND. Not that there aren't others, but the others already have ACC schools in those states currently.

(05-05-2013 12:40 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  Barring a Big12 breakdown, the only schools that have an all sports chance into the ACC are Cincinnati, UConn. The other chances would be Maryland staying or Navy in for Football only to offset ND. Not that there aren't others, but the others already have ACC schools in those states currently.

UConn isn't getting in the ACC either. They've been rejected multiple times too and don't add any value to the conference.

I don't think Navy has a snowballs chance either. Possibly if it got Notre Dame to join full-time and ND wanted them in their division or POD but I think that chance is less than 1%.

There are two schools that can add significant value to the ACC right now. Penn St, who is extremely unlikely to join, and Texas.

(05-05-2013 12:12 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  There is no "giving up Missouri". There is Missouri making one of two choices, stay in the SEC or leave should they decide they actually want to do that. The SEC places no leashes upon it's schools, atleast not yet.

Mizzou is going nowhere. Have you read any article about Mizzou in the SEC? They are not just happy, they're giddy, ear to ear smiling fans of their new home.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/new...-lion.html

Bobcat = ACC
Lion = Big 10/sec
Cactus = invites to Lville, WVU, ND- no football, gtown, etc


I wouldn't rule out any combos when survival is at stake. I like the acc adding uconn, gtown, and cincy or temple instead of gtown with byu as a football only. I think the only reason not to jump to 18 for the acc with those moves is the potential of landing texas e without football or ND football someday. I discount both of those outcomes, so I wouldn't wait around for their potential and would go with this setup now:

atlantic: uva, va tech, unc, duke, nc state, wake, clemson, ga tech, fsu
Coastal: bc, uconn, cuse, pitt, cincy, lville, miami, ND, gtown

football break off into 4 rotating pods being paired up:

A: uva, va tech, unc, duke
B: nc state, wake, cincy, lville
C: bc, uconn, cuse, pitt
D: clem, ga tech, fsu, miami

of course, get espn to start an acc espn network too.

I just don't see 16-team conferences anymore. If it was going to happen, it would have happened within the last 5 months. Once the ACC Network is up and running, the ACC will be right with the Big 12 and Pac 12 in terms of annual TV payouts. The SEC and BIG will be out in front of the other 3 power conferences, but IMO, there won't be a huge gap. Once you figure in bowl payouts, NCAA Tournament credits with the TV contract and ACC Network, the ACC will be well over $30 million a year.

(05-05-2013 01:01 PM)JMUDuke25 Wrote:  

(05-05-2013 12:40 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  Barring a Big12 breakdown, the only schools that have an all sports chance into the ACC are Cincinnati, UConn. The other chances would be Maryland staying or Navy in for Football only to offset ND. Not that there aren't others, but the others already have ACC schools in those states currently.

UConn isn't getting in the ACC either. They've been rejected multiple times too and don't add any value to the conference.

I don't think Navy has a snowballs chance either. Possibly if it got Notre Dame to join full-time and ND wanted them in their division or POD but I think that chance is less than 1%.

There are two schools that can add significant value to the ACC right now. Penn St, who is extremely unlikely to join, and Texas.

You missed the point. Barring a 'Big12 Breakdown" No way for Texas, WVA until otherwise.
Navy would be a Football only invite if We go to 16 Football schools with Cincinnati or UConn added . If Notre Dame becomes all in for Football then Navy would step aside unless ACC expanded further.
USF, UCF, Temple already have schools from those states in the ACC. Penn St Will Never Happen. again that leaves Only Cincinnati and/or UConn , Navy with the best shot of getting in the ACC.

(05-05-2013 01:41 PM)Villecard Wrote:  I just don't see 16-team conferences anymore. If it was going to happen, it would have happened within the last 5 months. Once the ACC Network is up and running, the ACC will be right with the Big 12 and Pac 12 in terms of annual TV payouts. The SEC and BIG will be out in front of the other 3 power conferences, but IMO, there won't be a huge gap. Once you figure in bowl payouts, NCAA Tournament credits with the TV contract and ACC Network, the ACC will be well over $30 million a year.

1. I agree, plus it is very apparent the TV Network may have grown tired of redoing their deals every couple of years due to realignment...hence, the ACC now get'n market value.

2. The SEC/B1G/ND will be well ahead of everyone else. ND has it NBC Deal that is going to pay them very nicely as well as the ACC Football Games cut they will receive from ESPN when they are boardcast on their network as well...not even counting their share of the ACC Olympic Sports & NCAA Basketball Units.

If/When the ACC Network gets off the ground my question is how soon will the Big XII morph the LHN into a League wide Network. Then I can see them expanding to get the increase TV Sets...maybe in Ohio or maybe the I-4 Coridor in Florida if not Provo/Salt Lake City...

(05-05-2013 01:11 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(05-05-2013 12:12 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  There is no "giving up Missouri". There is Missouri making one of two choices, stay in the SEC or leave should they decide they actually want to do that. The SEC places no leashes upon it's schools, atleast not yet.

Mizzou is going nowhere. Have you read any article about Mizzou in the SEC? They are not just happy, they're giddy, ear to ear smiling fans of their new home.

Don't really care to debate whether or not Mizzou will or wont. I was merely correcting the poster that there is no "trading" involved.

(05-05-2013 01:41 PM)Villecard Wrote:  I just don't see 16-team conferences anymore. If it was going to happen, it would have happened within the last 5 months. Once the ACC Network is up and running, the ACC will be right with the Big 12 and Pac 12 in terms of annual TV payouts. The SEC and BIG will be out in front of the other 3 power conferences, but IMO, there won't be a huge gap. Once you figure in bowl payouts, NCAA Tournament credits with the TV contract and ACC Network, the ACC will be well over $30 million a year.

The ACC will not go to 16 unless Notre Dame agrees to become a full time member (which I don't beleive will happen, at least not during the length of the current contract).

(05-05-2013 04:51 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-05-2013 01:41 PM)Villecard Wrote:  I just don't see 16-team conferences anymore. If it was going to happen, it would have happened within the last 5 months. Once the ACC Network is up and running, the ACC will be right with the Big 12 and Pac 12 in terms of annual TV payouts. The SEC and BIG will be out in front of the other 3 power conferences, but IMO, there won't be a huge gap. Once you figure in bowl payouts, NCAA Tournament credits with the TV contract and ACC Network, the ACC will be well over $30 million a year.

The ACC will not go to 16 unless Notre Dame agrees to become a full time member (which I don't beleive will happen, at least not during the length of the current contract).

I would agree that it is not likely but if the ACC could come up with some sort of hybrid contract for Notre Dame where they could still have their home games playing on NBC despite the conference having a deal with ESPN then it might be possible. Otherwise that brand new shiny contract NBC has with Notre Dame will be a big problem.

If they can get past that and the considerable "Independent" programming that is instilled into the Faithful then Notre Dame could have an awesome division with ACC.

Two division system?

North
Notre Dame
Boston College
Syracuse
Pitt
Virginia Tech
Virginia
Louisville
UConn/Cincinatti

South
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Clemson
Miami
North Carolina
North Carolina State
Duke
Wake Forest

Those two divisions could also easily be divided right as I typed them up if the ACC was to ever go with pods or even four divisions.

I would agree though, the ACC should continue to focus on wooing Notre Dame slowly into the fold. New NCAA divisions may help with that, a conference tournament would be huge for that endeavor and giving Notre Dame a small compact division of their dreams would be the icing on the cake.