(04-30-2013 09:23 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Yeah when you are replacing colums construction accidents do happen. Should we compare accidental rates in construction in red and blue states?

Well, California has the highest workers comp rates in the country. High rates = high accident rate.

(04-30-2013 09:21 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  That's my point IMATY. In blue states we can't build unattached buildings however we like but I do believe this is a county issue but for the most part counties follow each others guidelines except in the poor rural areas (I.E. Republican) in Ohio. Wayne Homes had a chart when we were looking to build. They actually had a price guide on where you intended to build. Now think about that. Were they actually cutting corners in the counties with less inspection? I asked why I had to pay a 5% surplus on the surplus in my county. They said our inspectors were bears. In hindsight that made me feel good because I knew the subcontractors would be on their toes.

You couldn't help yourself with the (republican) reference could you?

If I'm building a shed 50 feet away from my house what does it matter? These days most of the building codes are pretty uniform across geographical areas with more attention payed to different parts of the structure depending on what the climate and topography is where you live. I could cite examples but I'm typing on my phone. Just think about cold, hot, tornadoes and hurricanes. All have different codes.

Positive rep me or I'll sell you to gypsies.

(04-30-2013 09:26 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 09:23 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Yeah when you are replacing colums construction accidents do happen. Should we compare accidental rates in construction in red and blue states?

Well, California has the highest workers comp rates in the country. High rates = high accident rate.

Shows the mentality of the left..

Fertilizer plan near school in Texas? *LACK OF REGULATION* School near Oil refinery in NJ? "Nothing to see.." Explosion in Texas? *LACK OF REGULATION* People die in a construction accident in Ohio? "Accidents happen"

(04-30-2013 07:26 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I've built two garages....

you didn't build them, someone else did.

If unions bargained for ding dongs for their members, buildings wouldn't collapse.

(04-30-2013 09:04 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  First hand, what is your experience here? Thanks.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was just answering a question chief................

I was a Design and Drafting major with numerous concentration electives in construction management and architectural design and sustainability.
Real world experience includes helping in the construction of two houses and the renovation of two others on family's farm, all of which are to code and still standing in case you were going to ask.

(04-30-2013 09:11 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  but alot of it could be because we freeze up north for a long period. This could cause buckling of a foundation that doesn't matter in the south. I was on that thought, but what Robert (I think) was getting at was

1.with regulations.... you get order

2. with order you get a semblance of community

3. with community you undertstand we are all in this together.

After you just spent 500 grand on the house of your dreams you don't want a trailer setting up shop next to you. This would tend to tick people off in blue states. Red States value the indvidual much more from my viewpoint. They can care less about a Chick Fil A, trailer, and a laundrymat next to their residence. I saw it with my own two eyes. No building zones was evident.

It's not really possible for mobile homes to be set up next door to 1/2 million dollar homes in most instances due to zoning restrictions and homeowner associations. If you live outside of a zoned area, just choose your site better or buy the surrounding property, that's what most people tend to do.

You have heard of multi-purpose zoning right? Urban sprawl has created these areas in the south where communities are being annexed into the closest town. Areas around the edges of the city limits tend to be multi-purpose, including both single and multi-unit housing, restaurants, and approved small businesses.

You are right about southern states, both red and blue, valuing the individual more than northern blue states. The individual is at the core of any group or community and strong communities begin with strong individual liberties. Like-minded individuals tend to congregate together and live together. A community that respects and values individual rights has no need for homeowner associations and bylaws in the same sense that more controlling communities made up of individuals and families with no clear connection do.

It's funny that this conversation involves references to both trailers and OH. A cousin of mine married a union worker from OH many many years ago and they lived in OH where he worked at a CAT manufacturing plant. About twenty years ago my cousin talked him into retiring to the family farm in NC. Now we all love my cousin, but weren't thrilled about her husband coming with her because he fits every know-it-all, union-loving, yankee stereotype you can think of. What do you think the first thing he did when they got here was? Bought a $100k triple-wide mobile home from Ohio and shipped it down, setting it up on two acres of beautiful waterfront property right between my uncle and cousin who had built their dream homes on land given to them. Before anybody knew of his plans he was offered help in building whatever home he wanted from my uncles, cousins, and family friends in construction that had built several of the homes on the farm. With family help and his $100k he could have had a custom home finished the way he wanted.

(04-30-2013 09:11 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  After you just spent 500 grand on the house of your dreams you don't want a trailer setting up shop next to you. This would tend to tick people off in blue states. Red States value the indvidual much more from my viewpoint. They can care less about a Chick Fil A, trailer, and a laundrymat next to their residence. I saw it with my own two eyes. No building zones was evident.

And here I thought the blue states were the ones that cared about poor people. I guess they just don't want to actually, you know, have to see them.

There were 6 golf courses on the Plateau of Tennessee. It was near the TVA. I remember one was a Nicklaus design and in the past it used to host an LPGA event. The year I went 5-6 years ago it hosted the womens NCAA golf tournament. I think it was called Bear Run. Leaving that place heading East you would see million dollar mansions and their neighbor was in a 10,000 dollar trailer shack with cars on blocks and 3 lawnmowers cannibalized for parts. I never saw anything like it.

(04-30-2013 10:46 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  There were 6 golf courses on the Plateau of Tennessee. It was near the TVA. I remember one was a Nicklaus design and in the past it used to host an LPGA event. The year I went 5-6 years ago it hosted the womens NCAA golf tournament. I think it was called Bear Run. Leaving that place heading East you would see million dollar mansions and their neighbor was in a 10,000 dollar trailer shack with cars on blocks and 3 lawnmowers cannibalized for parts. I never saw anything like it.

Since you appear to be horrified by the notion of rich and poor living next to each other, which one would you kick out?

And just for fun, you should look up exclusionary zoning. That's one way to build a sense of community, and it doesn't just happen down South.

This is one of thousands of oil wells in Los Angeles, right in the middle of town. There are oil wells in Beverly Hills.

So much for Democrats and their "zoning"

if it doesn't work... https://www.google.com/search?q=hidden+o...ycVj6QM%3A

(04-30-2013 11:14 PM)jh Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 10:46 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  There were 6 golf courses on the Plateau of Tennessee. It was near the TVA. I remember one was a Nicklaus design and in the past it used to host an LPGA event. The year I went 5-6 years ago it hosted the womens NCAA golf tournament. I think it was called Bear Run. Leaving that place heading East you would see million dollar mansions and their neighbor was in a 10,000 dollar trailer shack with cars on blocks and 3 lawnmowers cannibalized for parts. I never saw anything like it.

Since you appear to be horrified by the notion of rich and poor living next to each other, which one would you kick out?

And just for fun, you should look up exclusionary zoning. That's one way to build a sense of community, and it doesn't just happen down South.

Mach loves the poor people he doesn't have to see....

(05-01-2013 06:45 AM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 11:14 PM)jh Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 10:46 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  There were 6 golf courses on the Plateau of Tennessee. It was near the TVA. I remember one was a Nicklaus design and in the past it used to host an LPGA event. The year I went 5-6 years ago it hosted the womens NCAA golf tournament. I think it was called Bear Run. Leaving that place heading East you would see million dollar mansions and their neighbor was in a 10,000 dollar trailer shack with cars on blocks and 3 lawnmowers cannibalized for parts. I never saw anything like it.

Since you appear to be horrified by the notion of rich and poor living next to each other, which one would you kick out?

And just for fun, you should look up exclusionary zoning. That's one way to build a sense of community, and it doesn't just happen down South.

Mach loves the poor people he doesn't have to see....

So much he'd abort them before they ever had to experience being poor.

Swell guy.

Things are just zoned. We have agricultural districts. One house on like 2 acres. R-1 , R-2. I don't know the ins and out but it's evident to me and people who have two eyes something is different about the way things are zoned up here vs. down there. As in...... you don't have them.

(05-01-2013 06:59 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Things are just zoned. We have agricultural districts. One house on like 2 acres. R-1 , R-2. I don't know the ins and out but it's evident to me and people who have two eyes something is different about the way things are zoned up here vs. down there. As in...... you don't have them.

A simple google search would prove you wrong. Zoning exists in nearly every municipality, regardless of it being located in northern or southern state. One of the things you seem to be failing to take into consideration is that much of what you have described happens outside of municipal districts. Counties often have more relaxed zoning requirements where its possible to see a $500,000 house relatively close to a $20,000 trailer. You want an exclusive neighborhood, go live in one. Better yet pick one in one of your precious northern states.

ok as in...... the ones you have....... are lax or are very easy to get around. Commercial vs. residential. That's another big one I noticed too.

But enough of this. It's getting off topic and it will be my last comment on it.

Your understanding of "zoning" in the south is flawed. What we generally have, particularly in Texas, is a town built around a railway or stagecoach stop, and then businesses that grew up around it. No matter HOW you draw it, you will eventually have a border for that "zone", and a business effectively located right next to a home. Zoning is different from the northeast primarily based on space... because something was once located ten miles outside of town, and town grew towards the business.... with the "industrial zone" starting where the existing businesses are, and moving outward.

The alternative is the thing CBM so often laments and that is the concentration of poor people in ghetto's, because they can't merely choose to build where the land is cheapest... which is the plight of most northern cities

Pick your poison. The unfortunate industrial accident that affects a few hundred people once every generation or the abject hopelessnes that affects millions every day of their lives??

(04-29-2013 10:06 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  What kind of building codes exist in red states? Seriously. How can that fertilizer plant in Texas be right next to a school. What if that explosion happened 12 hours later? Do you think that would be possible in a blue state. I was watching Duck Dynasty the other day and Jase put on an office right next to Willie. No permits. No footer. Do you think you could just put up a stck built office without a footer in a blue state? I vacationed in Tennessee for a golf trip. There was no central planning. You would have a drive thru right next to a mansion right next to a 10,000 trailer right next to a laundry mat. You could tell there were no building zones. In blue states we have that. We have regulations, codes, and zones. This is what Robert is getting at. A buddy of mine went to the Masters this year. He couldn't believe the dump surrounding Augusta. His words It was hillbilly heaven 1/2 mile outside the C.C. with fast food joints. You wouldn't have that in a blue state. It would all be residential surrounding it.

and yet the 4th largest city in the nation...Houston...has done fine without zoning. People tend to figure this stuff out as the go along. You figure out not to build a home next to a warehouse. You build homes where other homes are. If not?...You learn to live next to the warehouse. Maybe you like living next to warehouses. No big deal.