Please someone at UC please dispel the notion that UC brings no extra TV revenue to the Big 12. How can that be since the Big 12 has very little presence in Ohio or for that matter most markets east of the Mississippi except for the small state of WV and western PA.
How can anyone say that Kansas St or Iowa St both located in small cities and small states with population of less then 3million people in each has bigger potential The Cincy market alone has 2.1 million people and if you add Dayton it's bigger. Plus Ohio has 11million people so to say that Ohio cities won't watch UC on TV is nonsense. Sure Ohio State has control over the state as a whole but Ohio people will Watch Cincinnati at Oklahoma or Kansas at UC in basketball. So I am not understanding the comments about UC not bring TV markets to the Big 12. Anybody have a good answer?

I am not sure that TV markets matter as much to the B-12, because they do not have a regional network model. But, if the goal is to provide WVU with a travel partner (something I am not convinced is being taken seriously), then that is what I am looking at.

I agree plus if it is UC and WVU in Big 12 you can basically tie up the entire area from South West Ohio clear thru South East Ohio. We better be working 24-7 on the promo including your point about the TV market. The College sports ratings from Northern Kentucky/Cincy to Cincy/South Dayton are amazingly high numbers in top ten on almost all counts.

(04-30-2013 11:04 AM)Bearcat T Wrote:  I agree plus if it is UC and WVU in Big 12 you can basically tie up the entire area from South West Ohio clear thru South East Ohio. We better be working 24-7 on the promo including your point about the TV market. The College sports ratings from Northern Kentucky/Cincy to Cincy/South Dayton are amazingly high numbers in top ten on almost all counts.

That is a good point. Supposedly the B-X(II) games on Fox have been disappointing, ratings-wise. Maybe a local viewership shift to that league could be beneficial. But, I have seen nothing at this point that would suggest the B-X(II) feels that way.

UC should have people (a consultant?) working on how UC can add value to the Big 12 (hopefully they have been doing this for some time now).

(04-30-2013 10:59 AM)kyucat Wrote:  Please someone at UC please dispel the notion that UC brings no extra TV revenue to the Big 12.

They don't add any revenue because the Big XII contract does not increase if they increase the number of members they have. Each school would lose some of the money they get from their contract if they add new schools. The networks showing the games would increase revenue, but the conference would not see any of that.

Need the NCAA to stick to their guns on the 12 team requirement for a
league championship game [see below].

It's all about UC marketing itself to the B12 Athletic Directors, Presidents,
Fox Sports and even the ESPN sports writer for the Big 12.. By any means neccesary this needs to be done.. It is the difference between
big time and being Cleveland State. This is the same battle Bob Goin
fought to get into the Big East in 2005......



http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...rence-rule
Big 12 in talks with NCAA about 12-team conference rule
January 6, 2013 3:35 pm ET

The Big 12 plans to ask the NCAA to revisit a rule preventing a 10-team league from playing a conference championship game, Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby tells CBSSports.com.

The league has had preliminary talks with the NCAA and "I expect that we will make that request" formally, Bowlsby said.

The 10-team Big 12 plays a round-robin schedule, and though the league doesn't currently have plans to add a title game, it's making this request based on principle and future flexibility.

“We don't have any immediate desire to have a postseason playoff, but we are of the mind that it's probably best for a conference to have those perogatives on their own rather than have it stipulated,” Bowlsby said. “(Without the rule) you can have whatever sort of competitive format you want, and however many teams you want.”

NCAA rule 17.9.5.2 © states “a conference championship game between division champions of a member conference of 12 or more institutions that is divided into two divisions (of six or more institutions each), each of which conducts round-robin, regular-season competition among the members of that division.”

Bowlsby acknowledges NCAA deregulation can be a lengthy process as proposals get channeled through committees or director boards, but an eventual change would “give us opportunities we don't already have.”

There are coaches within the Big 12 that would prefer a conference championship game. Kansas State's Bill Snyder is one.

“I like our path to the semifinal without a playoff,” Bowlsby said. “If we ever did do (a championship game), it would require a rematch. We're not driving the agenda. There are other conferences that could be helped by this.”

The Mountain West played this season with 10 teams, and future conference realignment could push other conferences below the 12-team mark.

Bowlsby, who's on record as a supporter of the 10-team model, said the request has no membership or realignment implications for the Big 12.

One Big 12 official points out that dropping the NCAA's 12-team rule would allow flexibility of an extra game if it enhances the chance at a college football playoff spot.

“It could give legitimate playoff contenders the ability to bolster their resume,” the official said

So how much of an overall revenue enhancement would happen if they added a conference championship game? Would it be enough to offset the splitting of the pie to make it palatable to the rest of the members? If the numbers came close to a wash, it would be a win-win.

UC probably provides value to the B12 media deal, but the question is whether or not they provide the $20M+ worth of value that would ensure adding them would not reduce every school's media share.

If I'm UC, I think my next move might be to hire a media consultant and determine exactly how much value the school would bring to the B12. Get a dollar amount -- say $12-$13 million -- and go to the B12 and offer to join the conference for some dollar amount less than that per year.

Structure the entrance agreement such that UC will receive 80% of their added conference value for the remainder of this TV contract (so if UC's added-value is $10 million, they get $8 million in TV rights with the remaining $2 million split 10 ways for the remaining B12 schools) and will get a full share (i.e. the same share that Texas, K-State or any other B12 member gets) when the next TV contract is negotiated.

It'd be a win for all parties involved -- UC would almost certainly make more money (albeit less than the rest of the B12 until this TV contract is done) and be in a better conference, the B12 will make more money (every school should get a few hundred-thousand extra), and FOX will have a team with regional interest in a top-30 DMA with the potential to make more money as the brand awareness for UC grows.

Viola -- conference nightmare ended, more money for the school, more exposure, more money for the Big 12, more money for FOX, a travel partner for WVU and the potential for a huge payday for UC when the next B12 contract gets negotiated.

(04-30-2013 11:34 AM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  So how much of an overall revenue enhancement would happen if they added a conference championship game? Would it be enough to offset the splitting of the pie to make it palatable to the rest of the members? If the numbers came close to a wash, it would be a win-win.

Big XII leadership is too myopic for that. I don't care for any of the cats that run that league.

I don't understand this splitting the pot, wouldn't they just go back to
Fox and say we need to add [2] teams and increase the tv contract
accordingly...

(04-30-2013 11:18 AM)subflea Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 10:59 AM)kyucat Wrote:  Please someone at UC please dispel the notion that UC brings no extra TV revenue to the Big 12.

They don't add any revenue because the Big XII contract does not increase if they increase the number of members they have. Each school would lose some of the money they get from their contract if they add new schools. The networks showing the games would increase revenue, but the conference would not see any of that.

Adding schools will increase the revenue, the question is if adding Cincinnati will add as much as they currently make per year so the pay out per school will not decrease. Since the feedback the Big 12 got about UC and UofL from TV networks showed that they will not add that much revenue, the Big 12 has elected not to expand.

(04-30-2013 11:45 AM)KCat Wrote:  I don't understand this splitting the pot, wouldn't they just go back to
Fox and say we need to add [2] teams and increase the tv contract
accordingly...

Trouble is, FOX may well say "We're underwater on this deal anyway, given the poor ratings. We aren't renegotiating."

Or, FOX may say "We'll increase the TV deal, but the teams you're suggesting aren't worth an additional $40 million per year." If that happens, then everyone's take-home from the deal would decrease because it's splitting the pie up into 12 slices v. 10 and the total money isn't increasing proportionally.

There is also the lost revenue from a scheduling standpoint. Certain schools will be giving up home football games with Oklahoma and Texas to add Cincinnati and another school. Right now you play everyone at home at least one time in a two year period.

Retaining a media consultant or PR firm to advance the cause only adds value if UC wasn't already told definitively, "No means NO." We fans can make a brilliant case for UC to the B12 but if the conference is fat and happy with ten, UC is in a holding pattern indefinitely.
I understand the point earlier in this thread, but we never were nor will ever be at Cleveland State's level or the MAC for that matter.

(04-30-2013 11:43 AM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 11:34 AM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  So how much of an overall revenue enhancement would happen if they added a conference championship game? Would it be enough to offset the splitting of the pie to make it palatable to the rest of the members? If the numbers came close to a wash, it would be a win-win.

Big XII leadership is too myopic for that. I don't care for any of the cats that run that league.

This.

I dont take them as the pro-active bunch, which is why 2 years ago they were on the verge of extinction when Texas and company was on the way to the PAC10/12/14/16 . Their leadership slept on Louisville , West Virginia is hanging out there and they are basically Texas' bit** . Yet they are rich as all get out so why change their philosophy. It will take some playoff committee to say yeah you have to have a 12 team league and a championship game for them to move.

(04-30-2013 12:01 PM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  There is also the lost revenue from a scheduling standpoint. Certain schools will be giving up home football games with Oklahoma and Texas to add Cincinnati and another school. Right now you play everyone at home at least one time in a two year period.

I've heard that one from B12 fans but I don't buy it. IIRC, WVU sold plenty of tickets in Morgantown when they played UC in the Big East. Every other team in the B12 sells close to capacity every home game except for Kansas who has been terrible for a few years and is a school with a "b-ball first" mentality.

(04-30-2013 12:38 PM)Bearcat2012 Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 11:43 AM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 11:34 AM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  So how much of an overall revenue enhancement would happen if they added a conference championship game? Would it be enough to offset the splitting of the pie to make it palatable to the rest of the members? If the numbers came close to a wash, it would be a win-win.

Big XII leadership is too myopic for that. I don't care for any of the cats that run that league.

This.

I dont take them as the pro-active bunch, which is why 2 years ago they were on the verge of extinction when Texas and company was on the way to the PAC10/12/14/16 . Their leadership slept on Louisville , West Virginia is hanging out there and they are basically Texas' bit** . Yet they are rich as all get out so why change their philosophy. It will take some playoff committee to say yeah you have to have a 12 team league and a championship game for them to move.

I don't really see them expanding in the next 5-10 years. Cincinnati truly is locked into the American. Thankfully there are some peers like UConn, Memphis and Temple to keep us sane.

(04-30-2013 01:02 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 12:01 PM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  There is also the lost revenue from a scheduling standpoint. Certain schools will be giving up home football games with Oklahoma and Texas to add Cincinnati and another school. Right now you play everyone at home at least one time in a two year period.

I've heard that one from B12 fans but I don't buy it. IIRC, WVU sold plenty of tickets in Morgantown when they played UC in the Big East. Every other team in the B12 sells close to capacity every home game except for Kansas who has been terrible for a few years and is a school with a "b-ball first" mentality.

I am not worried about WVU its the Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State grouping that would mostly like be "stuck" with Cincinnati. I think you have to convince them.

(04-30-2013 01:29 PM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 01:02 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 12:01 PM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  There is also the lost revenue from a scheduling standpoint. Certain schools will be giving up home football games with Oklahoma and Texas to add Cincinnati and another school. Right now you play everyone at home at least one time in a two year period.

I've heard that one from B12 fans but I don't buy it. IIRC, WVU sold plenty of tickets in Morgantown when they played UC in the Big East. Every other team in the B12 sells close to capacity every home game except for Kansas who has been terrible for a few years and is a school with a "b-ball first" mentality.

I am not worried about WVU its the Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State grouping that would mostly like be "stuck" with Cincinnati. I think you have to convince them.

Iowa State and Kansas State have some of the best fans in the B12. They literally play in front of a capacity crowd every week whether they are playing Texas or playing some schlep FCS school. There is nothing else to do in Ames, Iowa or Manhattan, Kansas on a Saturday afternoon. They also have some of the best traveling fan bases in the B12. They bring a good crowd where ever they go.