(04-30-2013 12:42 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  I have to admit that I must be pretty stupid. I thought for awhile that you were actually a pretty smart poster.

Now I realize that you are a pathetic little man who just needs attention. That's why the only way to respond to your ridiculous hyperbole is with a tiny little troll icon...which fits you to a T.

Most everyone else on these boards have no problem responding to my posts. No, that's just another of your ways of ducking the fact that you can't answer hard questions when challenged. Go to an ad hominem attack.

Quote:Now run along...maybe mommy wants you to put the clothes in the dryer while you're reading obscure blogs in her basement.

See what I mean?

(04-30-2013 01:04 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 12:42 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  And there's way more to programming than writing code to determine that 1 plus 1 equates to 2. The logic comes in as to what situation you apply the mathematical formula to. IF, THEN, ELSE is the logical formula in basic terms. That's where the code breaks down for the most part IN MY INDUSTRY, which is what I was talking about. And if you recall, BIE provided no cite for his figure at all did he?

Dont you pull me into this tom, it was pretty clear from context that I was talking about my experience (and you never bothered to feed back there either). Now....

If-Then-Else is the last resort for things because they are rather cpu intensive..

example -

How would you code rock paper scissors lizard Spock tom?

9/10 programmers would use a series of nested if's optimized to catch the result as early as possible.. The more elegant solution would be to assign a number to each such that the mod(5) of the difference produces the winner..

score = (player_1 - player_2) % 5
if score > 3 then player 2 wins
eif score = 0 then tie
else player 1 wins

Quote:Structured if-then-else statements like the example above are one of the key elements of structured programming, and they are present in most popular high-level programming languages including C, its derivatives (including C++ and C#), Java, JavaScript and Visual Basic (all versions including .NET).

if then else goes all the way back to assembly code tom. infact even older wonky languages like LISP and ADA include them. I have a tough time coming up with any programming language or philosophy where ITE is not a core principle... Prolog?

Back when it was done in assembly then people understood the implication of wasting these statements. Even when C programming ruled the land it was pretty well understood that you should pseudo code and reduce logic statements but something happened between C and C++/Java.

People decided the math was not as important as the logic (which is BS because they are one in the same)... Coders got sloppy in practice and in their functional optimization (trust the compiler they say). It's only gotten worse as the fortran and old school c programmers have been leaving the field.

Quote:Now run along...maybe mommy wants you to put the clothes in the dryer while you're reading obscure blogs in her basement.

Tom,

I've seen long ass logic strings that developers did not bother to reduce down to something more digestible. I mean were talking regents high school math in NYS and at the latest 200 level stuff in college.

The point of the other tread was that a professor saying "Math is not that important" to a group of scientist in *ANY* field is setting those kids up to be mediocre scientist. Does not matter if its Biology or Computer Science

Sorry...I didn't mean to pull you into this. And I figured you were just talking about your industry...but in fairness, and I think you would agree, that we really have no idea what percentage of errors are directly attributed to math as there are so many variations of usage for computer code.

And I'm not a programmer by trade (I actually write product definitions, and then test the programmers code in the software product), but I've gone over enough code in my 15 years in the industry to see that the bugs in our software come from logic and not math. And I didn't even cover all those associated with typos and misplaced semi-colons.

I just really need to refrain from feeding the torch.

(04-30-2013 01:04 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  But seriously tom what should be done to the social services workers and police who kidnapped the kid?

Nobody kidnapped anybody. Please drop the hyperbole. We still have no idea what the first hospital told CPS. The social workers were working well within the law unless we know that they weren't following properly the information given to them by the first hospital. Do you honestly believe that on a whim CPS just showed up at this house on their own volition and took a kid just because they could? C'mon, it doesn't pass the smell test and you know it.

Our laws regarding things of this nature have been established with much more latitude for the exclusive purpose of protecting those under 18. I'm sure you can see what could happen if there weren't broad powers available to protect kids from harm. And to me, this is necessary in a civilized society.

And you can't go around arresting the CPS folks or the police in these types of cases or we wouldn't have anybody left to protect innocent kids from real cases of abuse which go on daily.

If the CPS folks truly acted alone, outside of the law, then I'm sure there will be plenty of avenues available to the parents to seek damages, be it criminally or civilly.

(04-30-2013 02:01 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Nobody kidnapped anybody. Please drop the hyperbole. We still have no idea what the first hospital told CPS. The social workers were working well within the law unless we know that they weren't following properly the information given to them by the first hospital. Do you honestly believe that on a whim CPS just showed up at this house on their own volition and took a kid just because they could? C'mon, it doesn't pass the smell test and you know it.

If you are familiar with CPS, it most certainly does pass the smell test. Totally unreasonable and unethical behaviour is standard operating procedure for them. Ask anyone who has dealt with them as an ad litem.

Quote:If the CPS folks truly acted alone, outside of the law, then I'm sure there will be plenty of avenues available to the parents to seek damages, be it criminally or civilly.

Nope, there aren't, and that's one of many problems with the system.

(04-30-2013 01:51 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Sorry...I didn't mean to pull you into this. And I figured you were just talking about your industry...but in fairness, and I think you would agree, that we really have no idea what percentage of errors are directly attributed to math as there are so many variations of usage for computer code.

Depends on what you consider an error tom. If were talking bugs which cause the program to act in a poor manner I'd bet your number one problem is a race condition or impropery scoped variables (again in my experience)..

But if errors mean *crush* enterprise systems and are basically useless we are talking function/object optimization, IO handling, variable cleanup, semaphore problems.

Quote:And I'm not a programmer by trade (I actually write product definitions, and then test the programmers code in the software product), but I've gone over enough code in my 15 years in the industry to see that the bugs in our software come from logic and not math.

You cant divorce logic and Math tom... Logic is a field of mathematics.

(04-30-2013 02:01 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Do you honestly believe that on a whim CPS just showed up at this house on their own volition and took a kid just because they could? C'mon, it doesn't pass the smell test and you know it.

Yes, and I have enough family in the field to know this happens. The Police talked to a doctor two days before who not only said the surgery was not urgent but that the kid was safe at home with the parents.

I think CPS did not maliciously do it but it's pretty clear it was done on a whim (e.g. they did not do their due diligence)

Quote:Our laws regarding things of this nature have been established with much more latitude for the exclusive purpose of protecting those under 18. I'm sure you can see what could happen if there weren't broad powers available to protect kids from harm. And to me, this is necessary in a civilized society.

Those who trade security for liberty deserve neither..

Quote:And you can't go around arresting the CPS folks or the police in these types of cases or we wouldn't have anybody left to protect innocent kids from real cases of abuse which go on daily.

Why? you can arrest people in the private industry when careless action harms another. Why should the govt "of the people" be immune?

(04-30-2013 01:04 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  But seriously tom what should be done to the social services workers and police who kidnapped the kid?

(04-30-2013 02:01 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Nobody kidnapped anybody. Please drop the hyperbole. We still have no idea what the first hospital told CPS. The social workers were working well within the law unless we know that they weren't following properly the information given to them by the first hospital. Do you honestly believe that on a whim CPS just showed up at this house on their own volition and took a kid just because they could? C'mon, it doesn't pass the smell test and you know it.

Come on now, you know they showed up at the house due to the first hospitals tip, and rightfully so. The parents took their child without a proper discharge. That said, how about a friendly knock on the door by CPS and maybe one cop instead of several? What happened to logical discussions? Would not the system work better if CPS had come in to do an independent evaluation instead of blindly operating on the word of the initial hospital? Had they done so, perhaps the second hospital's opinion and doctors note would have lead to a more civil end to the matter.

(04-30-2013 02:01 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Our laws regarding things of this nature have been established with much more latitude for the exclusive purpose of protecting those under 18. I'm sure you can see what could happen if there weren't broad powers available to protect kids from harm. And to me, this is necessary in a civilized society.

Ah yes, protecting a child from its parents that took it for a second opinion. A second opinion, something nearly all reasonable people seek for serious medical conditions.

(04-30-2013 02:01 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  And you can't go around arresting the CPS folks or the police in these types of cases or we wouldn't have anybody left to protect innocent kids from real cases of abuse which go on daily.

If the CPS folks truly acted alone, outside of the law, then I'm sure there will be plenty of avenues available to the parents to seek damages, be it criminally or civilly.

I have a serious problem with the cops forcing the man to the ground, taking his keys, and entering the house without a warrant. What was their reasonable suspicion that the child was in imminent danger and a warrant wasn't needed? The word of the hospital or doctor? That's not enough to excuse the action taken by CPS and the cops. There needs to be more oversight. If this is truly the proper procedures then CPS needs to be better regulated.

They had already been to the second hospital and knew there wasn't a problem. They never should have bothered these people at all.

(04-30-2013 02:01 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 01:04 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  But seriously tom what should be done to the social services workers and police who kidnapped the kid?

Nobody kidnapped anybody. Please drop the hyperbole.

Look up the definition of kidnapped. Then show us where that's an exaggeration.

Quote: We still have no idea what the first hospital told CPS. The social workers were working well within the law

Which is the problem. You're statist love doesn't change that.

Quote:Our laws regarding things of this nature have been established with much more latitude for the exclusive purpose of protecting those under 18. I'm sure you can see what could happen if there weren't broad powers available to protect kids from harm.

Uh kids get harmed by CPS all the time.

Quote: And to me, this is necessary in a civilized society.

But you're an idiot. Stop forcing your morals on everyone else.

Quote:And you can't go around arresting the CPS folks or the police in these types of cases or we wouldn't have anybody left to protect innocent kids from real cases of abuse which go on daily.

Proof? (And please avoid CPS propaganda, as well as made-for-TV movies)

(04-30-2013 02:29 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 01:04 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  But seriously tom what should be done to the social services workers and police who kidnapped the kid?

(04-30-2013 02:01 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Nobody kidnapped anybody. Please drop the hyperbole. We still have no idea what the first hospital told CPS. The social workers were working well within the law unless we know that they weren't following properly the information given to them by the first hospital. Do you honestly believe that on a whim CPS just showed up at this house on their own volition and took a kid just because they could? C'mon, it doesn't pass the smell test and you know it.

Come on now, you know they showed up at the house due to the first hospitals tip, and rightfully so. The parents took their child without a proper discharge.

There was no rightfully about it. The discharge issue was created by the hospital.

Quote:I have a serious problem with the cops forcing the man to the ground, taking his keys, and entering the house without a warrant. What was their reasonable suspicion that the child was in imminent danger and a warrant wasn't needed? The word of the hospital or doctor? That's not enough to excuse the action taken by CPS and the cops. There needs to be more oversight. If this is truly the proper procedures then CPS needs to be better regulated.

There isn't anything about this situation that isn't a problem (except the sound decision of getting a 2nd opinion).

(04-30-2013 02:45 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 02:29 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 01:04 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  But seriously tom what should be done to the social services workers and police who kidnapped the kid?

(04-30-2013 02:01 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Nobody kidnapped anybody. Please drop the hyperbole. We still have no idea what the first hospital told CPS. The social workers were working well within the law unless we know that they weren't following properly the information given to them by the first hospital. Do you honestly believe that on a whim CPS just showed up at this house on their own volition and took a kid just because they could? C'mon, it doesn't pass the smell test and you know it.

Come on now, you know they showed up at the house due to the first hospitals tip, and rightfully so. The parents took their child without a proper discharge.

There was no rightfully about it. The discharge issue was created by the hospital.

Yes I agree the first hospital is the cause of the problem here. I cannot however fault them for reporting the parents taking the child without having the proper discharge. I fully expect somebody, in this case CPS, to check up on a minor being taken out of a hospital without having been discharged. What I don't expect is for them to show up with a small deployment of cops and forcefully taking the child from his parents without any investigation on their part.

(04-30-2013 03:17 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 02:45 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 02:29 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 01:04 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  But seriously tom what should be done to the social services workers and police who kidnapped the kid?

(04-30-2013 02:01 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Nobody kidnapped anybody. Please drop the hyperbole. We still have no idea what the first hospital told CPS. The social workers were working well within the law unless we know that they weren't following properly the information given to them by the first hospital. Do you honestly believe that on a whim CPS just showed up at this house on their own volition and took a kid just because they could? C'mon, it doesn't pass the smell test and you know it.

Come on now, you know they showed up at the house due to the first hospitals tip, and rightfully so. The parents took their child without a proper discharge.

There was no rightfully about it. The discharge issue was created by the hospital.

Yes I agree the first hospital is the cause of the problem here. I cannot however fault them for reporting the parents taking the child without having the proper discharge.

I can see your point if they hadn't caused the problem to begin with.

CPS sees its first job as protecting the jobs and power base of its bureaucrats. Any benefit to children is totally incidental.

(04-30-2013 03:36 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  CPS sees its first job as protecting the jobs and power base of its bureucrats [sic]. Any benefit to children is totally incidental.

And teachers don't care about their students and cops don't care about citizens and blah blah blah. Kindly stuff your bull**** sir.

(04-30-2013 04:00 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 03:36 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  CPS sees its first job as protecting the jobs and power base of its bureucrats [sic]. Any benefit to children is totally incidental.

And teachers don't care about their students and cops don't care about citizens and blah blah blah. Kindly stuff your bull**** sir.

Kindly stuff your bull***, yourself. I didn't say anything about teachers or cops, so your dishonest and disingenuous attempt at linkage is totally inappropriate.

Just for the record, how much experience do you have working with CPS?

(04-30-2013 04:05 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 04:00 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 03:36 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  CPS sees its first job as protecting the jobs and power base of its bureucrats [sic]. Any benefit to children is totally incidental.

And teachers don't care about their students and cops don't care about citizens and blah blah blah. Kindly stuff your bull**** sir.

Kindly stuff your bull***, yourself. I didn't say anything about teachers or cops, so your dishonest and disingenuous attempt at linkage is totally inappropriate.

Just for the record, how much experience do you have working with CPS?

Really? You seriously didn't say anything about teachers or cops? Now how did I miss that?

And to answer you second question, none. But I'm on pins on needles for you to once again to regale us on yet another subject that you are the worlds foremost expert on. Serious question for you. Why do you waste so much time on here? You're clearly too brilliant to be associating with us peons.

(04-30-2013 04:12 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 04:05 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 04:00 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 03:36 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  CPS sees its first job as protecting the jobs and power base of its bureucrats [sic]. Any benefit to children is totally incidental.

And teachers don't care about their students and cops don't care about citizens and blah blah blah. Kindly stuff your bull**** sir.

Kindly stuff your bull***, yourself. I didn't say anything about teachers or cops, so your dishonest and disingenuous attempt at linkage is totally inappropriate.
Just for the record, how much experience do you have working with CPS?

Really? You seriously didn't say anything about teachers or cops? Now how did I miss that?

I apologize for the bull**** comment. Should not have stooped to your level.

Where on earth did I say anything about teachers or cops? In any post for that matter. I've made it pretty clear that I'm supportive of teachers, it's the bureaucrat administrators that are ruining education. And I don't know what I've ever written about cops that could be construed the way that you did.

Didn't know we were having a baloney feast.

(04-30-2013 04:15 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 04:12 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 04:05 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 04:00 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 03:36 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  CPS sees its first job as protecting the jobs and power base of its bureucrats [sic]. Any benefit to children is totally incidental.

And teachers don't care about their students and cops don't care about citizens and blah blah blah. Kindly stuff your bull**** sir.

Kindly stuff your bull***, yourself. I didn't say anything about teachers or cops, so your dishonest and disingenuous attempt at linkage is totally inappropriate.
Just for the record, how much experience do you have working with CPS?

Really? You seriously didn't say anything about teachers or cops? Now how did I miss that?

I apologize for the bull**** comment. Should not have stooped to your level.

Where on earth did I say anything about teachers or cops? In any post for that matter. I've made it pretty clear that I'm supportive of teachers, it's the bureaucrat administrators that are ruining education. And I don't know what I've ever written about cops that could be construed the way that you did.

Sorry...I thought the was a hint that I was being hyperbolic and simply applying your comment to a couple other public service areas. But I'm glad you're not at DrTrolls level when it comes to teachers.

(04-30-2013 03:36 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  CPS sees its first job as protecting the jobs and power base of its bureaucrats. Any benefit to children is totally incidental.

This.

These thugs showed up to make a point. YOU don't get to decide how your child is taken care of. WE make that decision. If it means kidnapping your child? Fck it. Deal with it slave.