(05-01-2013 12:29 PM)Overrated Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 11:38 AM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 11:04 AM)Overrated Wrote:  When will people realize that protection isn't real? Batting Bruce second isn't going to help him improve off of his terrible April. He is going to have to do that on his own.

Just like batting Cozart second is a terrible idea. Bruce would be an upgrade, but it isn't an answer.

Feel free to continue not believing in it, but a lot of baseball guys do, including managers.

I know. But there is mountains of data out there that proves it doesn't exist. I know what side Id rather be on. Being stuck in the past because something has always been done a certain way isn't a good look.

I'd enjoy reading the mountains of data regarding it. Please post.

This Reds offense has to many guaranteed outs.

Reds lose 4-2
and the series to the Cards.

(05-01-2013 03:56 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Reds lose 4-2
and the series to the Cards.

4 chances to win a game and take a series and lost all of them. On the bright side, only one trip left to St. Louis.

(05-01-2013 12:29 PM)Overrated Wrote:  I know. But there is mountains of data out there that proves it doesn't exist. I know what side Id rather be on. Being stuck in the past because something has always been done a certain way isn't a good look.

For every statistic you post, someone else could post one that proves the exact opposite. No amount of data can tell the entire story because there are a lot of things you can't account for.

If statistics and sabermetrics were all that mattered, the Oakland A's would be on track to be the team of the century.

(05-02-2013 12:31 PM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 12:29 PM)Overrated Wrote:  I know. But there is mountains of data out there that proves it doesn't exist. I know what side Id rather be on. Being stuck in the past because something has always been done a certain way isn't a good look.

For every statistic you post, someone else could post one that proves the exact opposite. No amount of data can tell the entire story because there are a lot of things you can't account for.

I don't see the logic in this argument. You may not get the "entire" story from currrent stats, but you can learn a lot regardless of what some managers (who learned the game before such stats existed) think. How do propose that decisions be made if not via an educated interpretation of all the facts/data?

And doesn't the burden typically fall on the person making the initial assertion?

Quote:If statistics and sabermetrics were all that mattered, the Oakland A's would be on track to be the team of the century.

Again that's not really a strong argument. Besides the fact that plenty of teams besides the A's use stats and sabermetrics to their benefit, that doesn't mean that variables (e.g. injuries) don't exist and it certainly doesn't mean they have the budget to buy whatever they want.

Meh. Reds started the 2012 season on April 5th. They had 4 days off in April, and finished April, 2012 with a record of 11-11.

No reason to panic. They didn't pick up steam until like late June and throught July.

In this case, you're looking at different levels of stats. Straight forward batting stats that deal with one's own production are pretty easy to draw conclusions from. When you start trying to expand it out, the stats in question become a lot less meaningful.

When current and former pitchers say they know who's in the on-deck circle and pitch accordingly, there's something to it.

(05-02-2013 08:33 PM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  In this case, you're looking at different levels of stats. Straight forward batting stats that deal with one's own production are pretty easy to draw conclusions from. When you start trying to expand it out, the stats in question become a lot less meaningful.

I don't know what this means - perhaps some actual examples would help.

Quote:When current and former pitchers say they know who's in the on-deck circle and pitch accordingly, there's something to it.

Again some speciifics would help here (e.g. who says what exactly). Although I think you'd agree that what people say and what they do aren't always the same. Moreover the actual impact of said intention or even action is often more different still.

I'm sure that pitchers usually know who is on-deck, but I don't necessarily know how that helps the current hitter if that is what you are claiming. I also don't get why you'd be against data/facts (as you seem to imply) to help assess the impact, if any.